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work/life balance and security in Europe and US

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Originally posted by: fiksi

Even more so, THERE is money to solve this problems in US, instead dealing with poverty, health etc. $$$ are spent in wars etc. Seems everything is done for corporate profits, and people are behind.

I always love this line coming from Europeans. Apparently many of you never cracked a history book or took a wander around your own countryside. Those concrete pillboxes didn't grow on their own like mushrooms.

Europeans manage not to try totally annihilating each other for half a century (out of 2000 years) and they feel justified in looking down their noses at the crude warmongering robberbarons that are US citizens. Give me a fucking break.

We are left to handle the world in the state (a mostly very screwed up state at that) which the European colonial powers left it in.
 
this months foreign policy magazine has an article about this, except its mostly against all the claims generally made in favor of europe.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/u.../cms.php?story_id=3860

french doctors get paid 1/3 of us doctors? go figure. you think our doctors will go along with that for universal health care? lol🙂

heh

and yea europe left the world in the state it is, and now pretend they can shutter themselves in and pretend to take care of their responsibilities by shoving paper at it.
 
welcome to America.

not everyone is as lucky as you bignateyk...as you said.

at least we have our weekends...haha.

I would move to Europe, but I do not think finding a job there would be easy.


as for why Americans work so much...my theory is, that if one man can work 40 hours a week at say 80,000$ yearly salary with some decent benefits....in the united states, you could find 4 young americans (no degree, other ethnicity whatever) to work at 15k-20k a year, so you have 4 more people to work for you, no benefits, and you pay them the same amount together, but you get 160 more hours out of them as a whole.

not sure if I am coming off easy to understand or not, haha...basically, in some cases, we are replaceable by lesser educated, cheaper labor. (this is in regards to general labor).

but when it comes to educated positions, you are less likely to get replaced, obviously.

 
I disagree work/life balance is better in Europe as a whole. I was seriously considering moving to Spain or at least buying a place there and living there a part of the year. I cannot comment on Europe as a whole or an overall analysis of lifestyle in all socioeconomic brackets, but I can say I was disappointed after spending some time there and looking at the numbers. Some countries in Europe have high unemployment rates, and others with very high taxes. In my situation, public healthcare is not important, taxes are though b/c I don't feel like having the extra burden of supporting tons of people's healthcare and hangout time with their kids (why lie?) I feel it's not as safe b/c there are a lot of people not working, and the variation in income is very noticeable. In addition, I found for the properties I wanted there was virtually no savings on the house itself or on long-term taxes or deductions on the houses (which was worse). My lifestyle would fall a couple notches in most of Europe for sure, can't say about others though.
 
Originally posted by: Pacemaker
I think this sums up the work ethic. It is the annual amount of hours worked per person by country.

uh. I think that begs the question: what exactly do they do in italy, germany,... netherlands. My guess is nothing too useful.

1300 hrs/year averages out to like 25hr work weeks.
 
http://time-blog.com/curious_capitalist/2007/06/americas_poor_overtaxed_corpor.html

read this... "communist" Europe lower on taxes? It can't be... Also, count in all federal and state taxes for wages, you'll see it's not that little...

@MagicConch-> Spain is a poor country, kind of... wages are like half of wages in most developed western countries.

Unemployment rates? Here you go...

I'll give you standardised employment rates by OECD- you'll see US isn't so "shiny".

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/24/38335554.pdf
 
With freedom comes risk. I rather be free than have cradle to grave security. I'll make my own security, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, but having a nanny government watch over me is not my idea of "better." I'm an adult. I don't need a fscking parent.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
With freedom comes risk. I rather be free than have cradle to grave security. I'll make my own security, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, but having a nanny government watch over me is not my idea of "better." I'm an adult. I don't need a fscking parent.

What do you think SS tax is? money we pay and will never see.

what keeps me from living in Europe is that unemployment rate.
 
Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
Originally posted by: Amused
With freedom comes risk. I rather be free than have cradle to grave security. I'll make my own security, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, but having a nanny government watch over me is not my idea of "better." I'm an adult. I don't need a fscking parent.

What do you think SS tax is? money we pay and will never see.

what keeps me from living in Europe is that unemployment rate.

now you've done it 😛
 
Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
Originally posted by: Amused
With freedom comes risk. I rather be free than have cradle to grave security. I'll make my own security, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, but having a nanny government watch over me is not my idea of "better." I'm an adult. I don't need a fscking parent.

What do you think SS tax is? money we pay and will never see.

what keeps me from living in Europe is that unemployment rate.


OK, let me tell you something... My colleague recently got a job in Germany, even if unemplyoment is high. He gets 5000Euro, and works in IT- that's net salary.

If he gets a child- he MAY get up to 20 000E for a child... that's right, vacation, much lower murder rate...

Why don't you look at Switzerland? Some countries in Europe have lower unemployment rates than US... look at Denmark etc.
 
Originally posted by: fiksi
http://time-blog.com/curious_capitalist/2007/06/americas_poor_overtaxed_corpor.html

read this... "communist" Europe lower on taxes? It can't be... Also, count in all federal and state taxes for wages, you'll see it's not that little...

@MagicConch-> Spain is a poor country, kind of... wages are like half of wages in most developed western countries.

Unemployment rates? Here you go...

I'll give you standardised employment rates by OECD- you'll see US isn't so "shiny".

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/24/38335554.pdf

that's a funny definition of unemployment they have, considering they count people who a) aren't looking for work; b) could be in school; c) could be happily retired. 15-64 isn't that great of an age range, and would make countries that aren't as developed look better vis-a-vis countries that are developed (where people are more likely to be in school and not working for a good chunk of that).

i'll note even that crappy page has the US leading france by nearly 15%.
 
Originally posted by: fiksi
Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
Originally posted by: Amused
With freedom comes risk. I rather be free than have cradle to grave security. I'll make my own security, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, but having a nanny government watch over me is not my idea of "better." I'm an adult. I don't need a fscking parent.

What do you think SS tax is? money we pay and will never see.

what keeps me from living in Europe is that unemployment rate.


OK, let me tell you something... My colleague recently got a job in Germany, even if unemplyoment is high. He gets 5000Euro, and works in IT- that's net salary.

If he gets a child- he MAY get up to 20 000E for a child... that's right, vacation, much lower murder rate...

Why don't you look at Switzerland? Some countries in Europe have lower unemployment rates than US... look at Denmark etc.

It is a choice in america to live in a larger murder chance population or to live on in the rural area where most likely, nothing will happen to you.

and you say that if you get have a kid you get a raise? .. ...

BTW -- personaly, I have never had an issue finding a job, because I work hard and long to find a job (if I am out of one)....and pay for my education to further get myself a better job.
 
Originally posted by: fiksi
OK, let me tell you something... My colleague recently got a job in Germany, even if unemplyoment is high. He gets 5000Euro, and works in IT- that's net salary.

5000 euro per year, month, or what? Or was that 50000 euro? Which city in germany? What are the costs of housing, groceries, transportation, etc.?

BTW, where I live, there have been a total of 3 murders this year. And only one involved a purely innocent victim. It's been huge news here and there are cops combing a nearby forested area looking for evidence as we speak.

How many murders were there where your friend lives?
 
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: fiksi
OK, let me tell you something... My colleague recently got a job in Germany, even if unemplyoment is high. He gets 5000Euro, and works in IT- that's net salary.

5000 euro per year, month, or what? Or was that 50000 euro? Which city in germany? What are the costs of housing, groceries, transportation, etc.?

BTW, where I live, there have been a total of 3 murders this year. And only one involved a purely innocent victim. It's been huge news here and there are cops combing a nearby forested area looking for evidence as we speak.

How many murders were there where your friend lives?

I have heard cost of living in a large city in europe is very high...even when looking for a studio apartment in a large city it is around 1000$ a week....that was when I was on craiglist.
 
Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
Originally posted by: fiksi
Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
Originally posted by: Amused
With freedom comes risk. I rather be free than have cradle to grave security. I'll make my own security, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, but having a nanny government watch over me is not my idea of "better." I'm an adult. I don't need a fscking parent.

What do you think SS tax is? money we pay and will never see.

what keeps me from living in Europe is that unemployment rate.


OK, let me tell you something... My colleague recently got a job in Germany, even if unemplyoment is high. He gets 5000Euro, and works in IT- that's net salary.

If he gets a child- he MAY get up to 20 000E for a child... that's right, vacation, much lower murder rate...

Why don't you look at Switzerland? Some countries in Europe have lower unemployment rates than US... look at Denmark etc.

It is a choice in america to live in a larger murder chance population or to live on in the rural area where most likely, nothing will happen to you.

and you say that if you get have a kid you get a raise? .. ...

BTW -- personaly, I have never had an issue finding a job, because I work hard and long to find a job (if I am out of one).



No, you don't get a raise, Germany is fighting to have more babies...
so they give a LOT of cash to mothers of children. That's in addition to mother leave,
health care, holidays...

But overall, murder rates in US are much higher than in Europe.

Besides, look at my post up... look at unemployment figures! You can compare nicely...
you'll see US will soon be surpassed by many countries, and some have already done so.
 
My question is why do you feel the gov't "owes" anyone these things? It's that entitlement attitude that is starting to choke the US.
 
Originally posted by: fiksi

Europe places stronger emphasis on family, benefits, health and wellbeing of society. Parents have time off to be with children, and overworked parents lead to children wandering around streets, early sex etc. (might explain some problems in US)

No wonder, i met Americans here in Europe... they say they like it here, and life is much better for them, for children. Quality isn't only $$$.


Interesting topic. not surprised to see it has dissolved into the standard "misread teh OP, bash Europe, US is still the greatest in every aspect of life, blind nationalism BS..." comments.
granted, some have been enlightening.

Bottom line, both systems have large positive and negative issues, many of which can cancel each other out. the trick is to finding what works out for you, which is the point of the OP.

Quoted from the OP what I find to be the most desirable aspect of living in certain european countries, and the fact that you will find europeans who prefer life in the US, for personal reasons.

I lived in Europe briefly (~ 6 months) on a student Visa--mostly Italy. At the same time, my brother was living in Switzerland on a work Visa. While I found (and still find) life in Europe to be more agreeable to me (free healthcare, free higher education in most countries--which few here want to mention for some reason...), I only hold that to a few countries. While Italy is a nice place to visit, I sure as sh1t wouldnt' want to live there. --Corruption, beaurocracy, and as in most places--it's quality of healthcare, not access, that becomes the real problem.

I prefer the general european approach to life>work. (this doesn't make them lazy, or the quality of work to be worse...well, the Italians are pretty damn lazy 😉).

If I had to choose, I'd prefer to live in Switzerland or France. I would avoid Italy or any eastern european country. Overall, I sitll think it is hard to beat the US, but unless you're born into it, you do have to work a bit harder for success here (competition, which is a fine thing).

and for those who think the US is soo rich..ever here of Norway? This is a typical day at the social services offices, as recounted by a former employee

--Employee: what can I do for you today?
Karls: I am depressed. I feel taht it is affecting my quality of life and my ability to work
--Employee: And what can we do to improve your life?
Karls: I am depressed because I own a Saab. My neighbor owns a Mercedes and I feel that his life is better than mine. I can no tlive with myself knowing that my neighbor has a better car.
--Employee: we will provide you government assistence so that you can upgrade your vehicle. No citizen shoudl have to suffer..

...true account
now, I'm sure there are valid reasons many would not want to live in Norway. Point is, some countries have drastic advantages over others, and the reality is--if youre' the type that constantly feels you you would be happier in another country, you will never be happy with where you are. spending your time pointing out negatives reduces your ability to work within the current system and improve your situation.
 
Originally posted by: fiksi
http://time-blog.com/curious_capitalist/2007/06/americas_poor_overtaxed_corpor.html

read this... "communist" Europe lower on taxes? It can't be... Also, count in all federal and state taxes for wages, you'll see it's not that little...

@MagicConch-> Spain is a poor country, kind of... wages are like half of wages in most developed western countries.

Unemployment rates? Here you go...

I'll give you standardised employment rates by OECD- you'll see US isn't so "shiny".

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/24/38335554.pdf

I asked for unemployment rate, not employment rate. You can't calculate one off of the other.
 
i think the US is definitely in bad shape and honestly believe there will be another revolution here soon.

You probably don't see it on the news, but Americans are getting extremely fed up with their government.
 
I love how so few Americans are willing to concede that anything outside of our country is better.

I don't agree with many of the points the op made, but -

health care benefits
maternity leave
gun control

Are three HUGE areas that most of Europe has a giant advantage over the United States in.
 
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: fiksi
OK, let me tell you something... My colleague recently got a job in Germany, even if unemplyoment is high. He gets 5000Euro, and works in IT- that's net salary.

5000 euro per year, month, or what? Or was that 50000 euro? Which city in germany? What are the costs of housing, groceries, transportation, etc.?

BTW, where I live, there have been a total of 3 murders this year. And only one involved a purely innocent victim. It's been huge news here and there are cops combing a nearby forested area looking for evidence as we speak.

How many murders were there where your friend lives?


that's per month... so 60 000E per year, net. I can ask him to tell me the exact costs, but currently he spends like 1500E to live nicely. It is a place close to Frankfurt, so costs are lower.

How much per month do you need to live?


Dunno about murders... could ask.
 
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