work/life balance and security in Europe and US

[fiksi]

@Linflas


I agree... NOT everything we do is best in Europe... but there is something both sides could learn from each other.

I didn't say that all we do is best... but there are many things you could learn. And YES, giving mother TIEM with her child would not devastate your economy... neither would giving paid vacation, that's what companies want you to believe.

And even health coverage wouldn't destroy you... but now money goes to greedy insurance companies.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: fiksi
Where DID i say Americans are lazy? I never said anything... like that! I think they are hardworking, decent people, very friendly... i never was attacking anyone!

And yes, i've been to America... didn't just read. I like US, but i think ppl should fight back...

America IS richer, but top 10% are extremely rich. Bottom 10% are much poorer than in Europe... wealth distribution is uneven.

@JeffreyLebowski
What if your GF gets a baby? benefits? Yes- back to work.

So what? Who said life was fair?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: fiksi

@JeffreyLebowski

i was talking about streets, not manufacturers...! RECENT shooting in us, every now and then, there are shootings... NO such thing here.

Yes, i think your universities are TOP-for those who can AFFORD them.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/ne...c/netpaycalculator.asp

Put in California, and put in 100 000$. And think again, you get almost NO benefits
for that taxes...

And yes- what if your GF gets pregnant? What are the benefits?

Well as far as "street" shootings go. a criminal is a criminal. If they didn't have guns, they would have knives. I'm sure there are lots of stabbings in Europe, probably more than in the US. BAN KNIVES in Europe now.

And we have guns because I forefather understood that in order for a government, ANY government to keep itself in check was to keep the citizens armed so if the Gov did go out of bounds the citizens had the ability to confront it.

The only thing that bothers me about the US is the fact that many people are devoutly religious and are blinded so much by faith that they can't comprehend reality. More and more, the politicians want to take away our guns, but what they don't understand is that the armed civilian is a better deterrent to invasion or "suicide bomber" attack that the military could ever be. Think about it for a second. Some dude is walking around with a bomb on his chest or in a bag, if he gets found out, any number of lawful citizens that are carrying concealed weapons could shoot him and foil his plans. There are also reports that came out of the USSR when it collapsed (European Super Power I may remind you) stating that they knew they could never invade the US because the general population was to well armed.

Don't bash guns because you are afraid of them. You and most Europeans are of the same mind set due to brain washing (as are a lot of Americans) that guns are evil. Guns are pieces of metal and plastic. Guns don't have legs and walk around and shoot people. People shoot people.


California is an extreme example. Try Texas or some other state that doesn't have State income tax.

As far as if my GF gets pregnant again? Lets see, the health insurance she has pays for her doctor visits and hospitalization when she gives birth. All we pay is a small deductible. After that, she has 6 weeks maternity leave from her job.

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi
Where DID i say Americans are lazy? I never said anything... like that! I think they are hardworking, decent people, very friendly... i never was attacking anyone!

And yes, i've been to America... didn't just read. I like US, but i think ppl should fight back...

America IS richer, but top 10% are extremely rich. Bottom 10% are much poorer than in Europe... wealth distribution is uneven.

@JeffreyLebowski
What if your GF gets a baby? benefits? Yes- back to work.

So what? Who said life was fair?

QFMFT.
America=Freedom, freedom to choose
By the descriptions you keep giving of Europe it seems that Communism is coming back with a vengence there. Health care, Education, work is all controlled by the State.

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: fiksi

@JeffreyLebowski

i was talking about streets, not manufacturers...! RECENT shooting in us, every now and then, there are shootings... NO such thing here.

Yes, i think your universities are TOP-for those who can AFFORD them.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/ne...c/netpaycalculator.asp

Put in California, and put in 100 000$. And think again, you get almost NO benefits
for that taxes...

And yes- what if your GF gets pregnant? What are the benefits?

Well as far as "street" shootings go. a criminal is a criminal. If they didn't have guns, they would have knives. I'm sure there are lots of stabbings in Europe, probably more than in the US. BAN KNIVES in Europe now.

And we have guns because I forefather understood that in order for a government, ANY government to keep itself in check was to keep the citizens armed so if the Gov did go out of bounds the citizens had the ability to confront it.

The only thing that bothers me about the US is the fact that many people are devoutly religious and are blinded so much by faith that they can't comprehend reality. More and more, the politicians want to take away our guns, but what they don't understand is that the armed civilian is a better deterrent to invasion or "suicide bomber" attack that the military could ever be. Think about it for a second. Some dude is walking around with a bomb on his chest or in a bag, if he gets found out, any number of lawful citizens that are carrying concealed weapons could shoot him and foil his plans. There are also reports that came out of the USSR when it collapsed (European Super Power I may remind you) stating that they knew they could never invade the US because the general population was to well armed.

Don't bash guns because you are afraid of them. You and most Europeans are of the same mind set due to brain washing (as are a lot of Americans) that guns are evil. Guns are pieces of metal and plastic. Guns don't have legs and walk around and shoot people. People shoot people.


California is an extreme example. Try Texas or some other state that doesn't have State income tax.

As far as if my GF gets pregnant again? Lets see, the health insurance she has pays for her doctor visits and hospitalization when she gives birth. All we pay is a small deductible. After that, she has 6 weeks maternity leave from her job.

Well, at least you seem reasonable to discuss with 😉

As for guns, i can give some data, interesting... Did you know how many guns there are in Switzerland? Many, many... BUT, why don't ppl walk around and shoot each other?

Something must be connected to society...

I am not brainwashed, and am NOT afraid of guns, just ppl who might do something woth them...

Well, the trick is that most states have taxes- here it is all in one, in US just federal tax is one tax.

6 weeks is little... really little. I think mother should have at least 6 months with kid,
paid. Did you pay nannies then?

How expensive is it to pay for childcare in US? Many countries have free kindergartens in Europe, how is this in states?

 

[UTmtnbiker]

Just out of curiosity, how many people actually get to negotiate with their employer on their healthcare? I work for a large Fortune 250 company ($15billion in revenue and 65,000 employees). We get what I consider pretty good healthcare for an average American and we get a CHOICE of health plans to choose from, but in reality, they're all the same flavor with small variations (PPO, HMO, Health Savings Plan, etc). You're pretty much stuck with whatever the company can negotiate with the healthcare providers.

In addition, over the last 10 years, I've seen my co-pay's and deductibles go up, while also paying more and more out of my paycheck for it.

Keep in mind, this is for a GOOD company with GOOD plans. I can't even imagine what it's like for a person working in a small company that doesn't have the leverage with the healthcare providers.

I'm not a Michael Moore fan by any means and haven't seen the movie Sicko, but I do think that he may be on to something here. Healthcare is just getting more and more unaffordable for the average American, even those with decent jobs and employer sponsored care.

Originally posted by: Linflas
Thanks but I'll pass on the loving embrace of mommy government and enjoy the freedom to negotiate those benefits with my employer on my own.

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

 

[GTaudiophile]

One thing to remember, as great as the social market economies of Europe are, they too are having the same problem as the US: not enough babies to support the growing number of retired people. Except in Europe, the people have been promised even more and the economies historically grow at slower rates and people are already taxed north of 50% on average. So if things collapse, I think Europe has more to lose. But one big advantage EU member nations have is far stricter regulations on debt and deficits. If America cannot get control of its federal spending, we and the dollar will suffer big time. Think the Great Depression II. It's getting obscenely out of control.

But I do agree that the attitude of "work to live" in Europe instead of "live to work" in America is a far healthier attitude. Paid vacation and sick days are a good thing. But I will say this, in terms of pure entrepreneurial spirit, there is no better place to start your own business than America. At least for now. We are still the home of the self-made man! And it is true, in terms of higher education, the US has the best universities, bar none.

Point is, both sides have their positives and negatives and at the end of the day, we still have a lot we could learn from each other.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

But why is it lagging if Doctors don't make as much as they do in the US. Guess what if all your doctors started making what they do in the US, your taxes would all go up to cover the raise in costs associated with the health care system. See how it works?

Also, why would people from Eastern European countries by pass western Europe, which is right next door and by your accounts better, and come to America? Maybe because they can see 1st hand the pompousness and arrogance of Western Europeans and they don't want to live in that.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2006.htm

Less than 500,000 people are paid minimum wage. Over half of them are college aged kids or younger. It's statisically insignificiant because it's not intended to be a living wage. It's supplemental income.

There are another 1.3 million that make less than minimum wage but those are service oriented with tip compensation that isn't factored into the hourly rate. Many of those workers are making far more than the minimum once that is factored in. And my point still stands that it was never intended to be a living wage.

 

[spidey07]

LOL!

Well I just got back from vacation where the people were overwhelmingly brits, scotts and hollanders. Every single one of them wants to come to the states.

All they did was complain about their huge taxes and how their countries were becoming communist. They couldn't wait to come to america, especially after I told them how great it is and how you can be tremendously successful if you aren't lazy.

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

But why is it lagging if Doctors don't make as much as they do in the US. Guess what if all your doctors started making what they do in the US, your taxes would all go up to cover the raise in costs associated with the health care system. See how it works?

Also, why would people from Eastern European countries by pass western Europe, which is right next door and by your accounts better, and come to America? Maybe because they can see 1st hand the pompousness and arrogance of Western Europeans and they don't want to live in that.

You see, here they are NOT burdened by education debts... and that means a lot. Also, on the technology side, US is still more advanced, and so offers better IT jobs. However, this advantage is not as big as it used to be.


Well, ppl have this belief that US is the country of dreams etc. and many left during wars. But Europe today, is not a devastated place. The dream of US still exists, however, there are many traps people do not know...

Do you think i knew i could go bankrupt for getting sick in US? I didn't... also, about vacation etc.

as for public health, why does USA rank far below any developed European country?
By your OWN analysis, your companies are suffering from enormous expenses connected to health insurance. I read once, that if universal system was put in place, companies would
be more competitive...

 

[fiksi]

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL!

Well I just got back from vacation where the people were overwhelmingly brits, scotts and hollanders. Every single one of them wants to come to the states.

All they did was complain about their huge taxes and how their countries were becoming communist. They couldn't wait to come to america, especially after I told them how great it is and how you can be tremendously successful if you aren't lazy.

On the surface, yes... do they know there's no paid motherleave? No guaranteed paid vacation? Do tehy know that they can go bankrupt because of health bills?

How many ppl in US go bankrupt because of health bills every year?

That could change their opinion, as it did change my opinion... BUT that's in your hands to change. Your country is rich enough to GIVE all that to its citizens.

I do AGREE that US is best for enterpreneurship, however, us corporate TAX is one of the highest... i think.

EDIT: second highest tax rate for corporations!

Top 5
Japan 39.54%
U.S. 39.3%
Germany 38.9%
Canada 36.1%
Spain 35%

Also, about wage taxes... if you put in state and federal taxes, medicare and all that stuff, overall tax is not that much lower in US, for say- 100 000$ salary. You see, "communist" Europe actually taxes its corporations less...

And as for communism, i'm ALL against it! My birth country was once communist, and i hope that never comes back... but humane development and communism is not the same.

I lived in both systems, but i prefer HUMANE development-and capitalism...
Freedom to work, buy, posess... but sometimes state has to interfere- MARKET is not perfect.

 

[ElFenix]

you get more vacation, we get paid more. frankly, i'd rather get paid more.

and all your nice job security laws have led to high unemployment, particularly amongst young people (who were too stupid to realize it was those laws that were hurting them and rioted when it was proposed that the laws be changed). what good is job security if you can't get a job to begin with?

who cares what the minimum wage is when only high school students living under mom and dad's roof make it?

all you need to know about universities


as for bankruptcy, big deal. i live in texas. were i to go bankrupt, i could keep my house, my car, my furnishings, and just about everything else i own.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

BS, most of the Europeans I know are Brits or from Western Europe.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: fiksi
That could change their opinion, as it did change my opinion... BUT that's in your hands to change. Your country is rich enough to GIVE all that to its citizens.

I see. You're a communist.

Good luck with that.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?

What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

But why is it lagging if Doctors don't make as much as they do in the US. Guess what if all your doctors started making what they do in the US, your taxes would all go up to cover the raise in costs associated with the health care system. See how it works?

Also, why would people from Eastern European countries by pass western Europe, which is right next door and by your accounts better, and come to America? Maybe because they can see 1st hand the pompousness and arrogance of Western Europeans and they don't want to live in that.

You see, here they are NOT burdened by education debts... and that means a lot. Also, on the technology side, US is still more advanced, and so offers better IT jobs. However, this advantage is not as big as it used to be.


Well, ppl have this belief that US is the country of dreams etc. and many left during wars. But Europe today, is not a devastated place. The dream of US still exists, however, there are many traps people do not know...

Do you think i knew i could go bankrupt for getting sick in US? I didn't... also, about vacation etc.

as for public health, why does USA rank far below any developed European country?
By your OWN analysis, your companies are suffering from enormous expenses connected to health insurance. I read once, that if universal system was put in place, companies would
be more competitive...

fiksi, why don't you tell us what the comparative unemployment rates are between US and Europe?

 

[iamwiz82]

I work for a European owned company in America. We have lots of European workers here who have transplanted from our sister companies and they all seem happy. Ironicly, most buy big American cars and live the American lifestyle as soon as the make it over.

Amusingly enough, they soon become frustrated by the lack of efficiency/urgency of their co-workers overseas.

 

[halik]

Funny thing, all that stuff you mention (education, health care, vacation) is ultimately paid with your own money. I'd much rather have the freedom to decide how much vacation and education is worth my money than have the gov't do it for me.

Rigth now I've got 2 weeks of vacation, good health care, work 60+ hrs a week and make a ton of cash ... all because I want to. If i needed 6 weeks of vacation, I'll get a different job. The biggest part of the 'quality of life / work balance' is the freedom to be able to choose what fits you.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: fiksi

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL!

Well I just got back from vacation where the people were overwhelmingly brits, scotts and hollanders. Every single one of them wants to come to the states.

All they did was complain about their huge taxes and how their countries were becoming communist. They couldn't wait to come to america, especially after I told them how great it is and how you can be tremendously successful if you aren't lazy.

On the surface, yes... do they know there's no paid motherleave? No guaranteed paid vacation? Do tehy know that they can go bankrupt because of health bills?

How many ppl in US go bankrupt because of health bills every year?

That could change their opinion, as it did change my opinion... BUT that's in your hands to change. Your country is rich enough to GIVE all that to its citizens.

I do AGREE that US is best for enterpreneurship, however, us corporate TAX is one of the highest... i think.

EDIT: second highest tax rate for corporations!

Top 5
Japan 39.54%
U.S. 39.3%
Germany 38.9%
Canada 36.1%
Spain 35%

Are those base or effective tax rates? It's kind of like the difference between MSRP and invoice. Sure Corporations here are initially hit with that high of a tax rate, but after the deductions their effective rate is much, much lower.

 

[torpid]

What is the "logic" for thinking a mother needs 6 months versus 6 weeks? In either case the baby has to be taken care of by someone else if the mother returns to work. It is utterly ridiculous to force a company to pay wages for 6 months.

 

[Pacemaker]

I think this sums up the work ethic. It is the annual amount of hours worked per person by country.

 

[bignateyk]

umm.. I just graduated college, and I have a job with 5 weeks of vacation + 12 paid holidays + more sick leave than I know what to do with.

The pay is about average for a starting engineering salary, but the time is amazingly flexible. I can pretty much make my own hours (within reason).

I also get amazing health insurance for about $75 a month.

I doubt I could do much better in europe.

I do realize that many people probably aren't as lucky, however.