work/life balance and security in Europe and US

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: fiksi

Well, it's not like i haven't been in US... i just wondered why my US colleague was afraid if he got bad teeth- when i heard prices they charge for little things, i couldn't believe it!

Few teeth, leg and kidney and you're bankrupt...

BTW- look at US economy, dollar is ALL time low, Deficit is record, debt is record... Euro is holding, unemployment is falling in EU. Wouldn't say US economy is doing great... if you keep piling that debt and deficit, it will be bad for you, and in THE end- for all of us.

I don't think you understand much of anything about america.

You get health insurance, it pays for all of your medical expenses. So stop this "you go bankrupt!" nonsense. Also do you even know what bankruptcy is?

that has to be the most ignorant statement i've seen concerning our health insurance policies.

break a leg outside of your HMO's network, then see how willing they are to cover you.
or...get in a carwreck, take a ride in an ambulance (while unconscious, of course), and wee how willing they are to help you out since you "neglected" to OK an out-of-network trip on that ambulance ride.

HMO's are run by profiteers, not medical personel.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: fiksi
Really?

Why is this then...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0202-08.htm

WASHINGTON - Half of all U.S. bankruptcies are caused by soaring medical bills and most people sent into debt by illness are middle-class workers with health insurance, researchers said on Wednesday.

The study, published in the journal Health Affairs, estimated that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans every year, if both debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children, are counted.

"Our study is frightening. Unless you're Bill Gates you're just one serious illness away from bankruptcy," said Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School who led the study.

"Most of the medically bankrupt were average Americans who happened to get sick. Health insurance offered little protection."


That's what your OWN ppl said...
@spidey7, this insurance doesn't seem to "pay" for everything...

Stop googling for your proof. that's a completely bogus communist agenda site.

If people go bankrupt it's their OWN fault for being underinsured. That's the beauty of a free country. We can choose our destiny.

amazing. you get dumber and dumber with each post....

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Dont you just love Europeans coming to an American internet forum, on an internet network invented by Americans, telling us that we do it all wrong?

Mr. Gore, I thought we spoke about taking your medication after lunch.

 

[yuppiejr]

Interesting...

So lets talk about the unemployment situation in France. http://www.theage.com.au/news/.../30/1125302569771.html

Like most entitlement centric governments, it's easy to keep winning elections if you keep just enough of the population on costly government programs funded by the folks actually working. Europe sounds like a great place to live if you are a mooch, god forbid you're one of the poor saps who actually gets a job and has to pay taxes to support the able bodied slackers.

 

[freegeeks]

can't we all just get along and have a :beer: and discuss more important stuff like who is going to win the Tour De France this year???

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

In honour of this statement I'm going to drink a Westvleteren 12°, the finest brew in the universe :beer:

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: fiksi

Well, it's not like i haven't been in US... i just wondered why my US colleague was afraid if he got bad teeth- when i heard prices they charge for little things, i couldn't believe it!

Few teeth, leg and kidney and you're bankrupt...

BTW- look at US economy, dollar is ALL time low, Deficit is record, debt is record... Euro is holding, unemployment is falling in EU. Wouldn't say US economy is doing great... if you keep piling that debt and deficit, it will be bad for you, and in THE end- for all of us.

I don't think you understand much of anything about america.

You get health insurance, it pays for all of your medical expenses. So stop this "you go bankrupt!" nonsense. Also do you even know what bankruptcy is?

that has to be the most ignorant statement i've seen concerning our health insurance policies.

break a leg outside of your HMO's network, then see how willing they are to cover you.
or...get in a carwreck, take a ride in an ambulance (while unconscious, of course), and wee how willing they are to help you out since you "neglected" to OK an out-of-network trip on that ambulance ride.

HMO's are run by profiteers, not medical personel.

My mother in law has had to visit the emergency room on 2 different occasions while visiting us here in Virginia. She is from Montreal, Quebec and guess how much of the bill her wonderful national health care reimbursed her for? Try 0. Oddly enough even though they had no guarantee of ever receiving a single cent in payment for their services both time the hospital here treated her without hesitation.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
that has to be the most ignorant statement i've seen concerning our health insurance policies.

break a leg outside of your HMO's network, then see how willing they are to cover you.
or...get in a carwreck, take a ride in an ambulance (while unconscious, of course), and wee how willing they are to help you out since you "neglected" to OK an out-of-network trip on that ambulance ride.

HMO's are run by profiteers, not medical personel.

So don't get a HMO? So get supplemental? There are GREAT plans out there for not a lot of money.

It's all freedom and choice.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

c'mon...you know better. We have TONS of quality beer in the states. We just don't mass produce it. Frankly, I'd rather the good stuff stay small, as once one of our products tends to hit the industrial scale, it tends to go to the pooper.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

the mass brewed stuff everywhere is swill. i don't know why people compare budweiser to anything other than carlsberg. if you can tell the difference between the two i'll drink mexican piss (i.e. corona)

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

the mass brewed stuff everywhere is swill. i don't know why people compare budweiser to anything other than carlsberg. if you can tell the difference between the two i'll drink mexican piss (i.e. corona)

I can tell the difference between Bud and Carlsberg, I'm not saying that Carlsberg is better then Bud so you better start drinking The Piss😀

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

c'mon...you know better. We have TONS of quality beer in the states. We just don't mass produce it. Frankly, I'd rather the good stuff stay small, as once one of our products tends to hit the industrial scale, it tends to go to the pooper.

lol, the smaller labels can be pretty good

I guess I'm just bitter about having to ingest swill for so many years back home and pretend I'm enjoying it 😛


Which reminds me, does anyone remember where a good chunk of my Ron Zacapa 23 year old rum has gotten to?


😉

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: NeoV
I love how so few Americans are willing to concede that anything outside of our country is better.

I don't agree with many of the points the op made, but -

health care benefits
maternity leave
gun control

Are three HUGE areas that most of Europe has a giant advantage over the United States in.

You are seriously saying gun control is a positive?

if gun control leads to lower murder rates, than yes - it's positive.

So we should take away rights guaranteed to every US citizen? What right is taken away next when you have no means of defending yourself? Free speech? Religion? Right to vote?

so you're OK with the privacy rights that have already been taken from you over the last 5 years? Are you prepared to use your guns to take those rights back? If not, then you have have no idea why you have the right to those guns.

Thats a tad extreme. There is middle ground between acceptance and wanting to shoot someone over it. I still believe we have the right to vote and use our voice in opposition first. Guns should be the last resort but won't be if they are taken first.

Do you consider the right to be armed far more American than the right to your own privacy?

btw, I am not anti-gun. However, I find most pro-gun folks claim that gun-control strips them of the right to their own lives, their own property, i.e. privacy. Why is gun-control more of an infringement on privacy than is allowing un-warrented wire-tapping, suspending habeas corpus, etc...?

My example is extreme, but imo it is government out of control. when exactly do you decide that enough is enough? are some rights greater than others?

As I said above, I consider it the final "enforcer" of those rights. When all civil means are exhausted there will be a call to arms. How do you do this if your opponent is the only one with weapons?

I don't know how I could put them in any order. When you start taking away some rights it all kinda falls apart. I'm a selfish American, I want them all.

 

[KMFJD]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Not to derail the flamewars going on, but can someone explain to me why in the US/Canada they do not put the full price of a product on the sales sticker...at least Europe does that right.

You mean after sales tax or something else?

Yeah, why do they not include sales tax in the price?

If you think you are getting shafted now by taxes let the government gain the ability to hide the sales tax in the cost of the good and they'll end up with 75% of the price of the good as tax. It's bad enough that they do that with gasoline.

Oh dear god, what does that have to do with the sticker price, i'm quite sure that most Europeans know what their VAT is , i know what the tax is here in Canada as well. So in other words you would rather have Gas stations say that gas is 90cents a gallon, you fill up, and then you get a bill for 3$ a gallon?

/Tinfoil Hat much?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
I can tell the difference between Bud and Carlsberg, I'm not saying that Carlsberg is better then Bud so you better start drinking The Piss😀

looking at the bottle doesn't count 😉

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: zinfamous
that has to be the most ignorant statement i've seen concerning our health insurance policies.

break a leg outside of your HMO's network, then see how willing they are to cover you.
or...get in a carwreck, take a ride in an ambulance (while unconscious, of course), and wee how willing they are to help you out since you "neglected" to OK an out-of-network trip on that ambulance ride.

HMO's are run by profiteers, not medical personel.

So don't get a HMO? So get supplemental? There are GREAT plans out there for not a lot of money.

It's all freedom and choice.

a lot of PPO's work the same way, Sparkey.

I'm on a PPO, and it's about as good as it gets. $40/month, $15 copay, $500 deductible. Good thing I'm employed through a University. Guess what? that's still not better than free.
A similar health plan for someone employeed privately, or even unemployed, is not only unheard of, but the next-best thing costs ~ $120/month

The point is that all medical procedures are investigated by the insurance company so that "medical necessity" can be determined. It's not your monthy payment, your copay, or your deductible that determines good healthcare; it's if you head into the emergency room with 3 severed fingers, your surgeon has to approve this though your provider first, then confronts you with the choice of which finger you would prefer to have reattached (10k for pinky finger, but 20k for middle? wtf is that???) Should a private insurance company be allowed to place a monetary value on your own body parts? Hell no. But that's the reality of our health insurance.

 

[spidey07]

Zinfamous,

You are more than welcome to purchase a more comprehensive plan that meets your needs. THAT's freedom.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: freegeeks
I can tell the difference between Bud and Carlsberg, I'm not saying that Carlsberg is better then Bud so you better start drinking The Piss😀

looking at the bottle doesn't count 😉

I'm Belgian, we are breastfed beer 😉

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: fiksi

Well, it's not like i haven't been in US... i just wondered why my US colleague was afraid if he got bad teeth- when i heard prices they charge for little things, i couldn't believe it!

Few teeth, leg and kidney and you're bankrupt...

BTW- look at US economy, dollar is ALL time low, Deficit is record, debt is record... Euro is holding, unemployment is falling in EU. Wouldn't say US economy is doing great... if you keep piling that debt and deficit, it will be bad for you, and in THE end- for all of us.

I don't think you understand much of anything about america.

You get health insurance, it pays for all of your medical expenses. So stop this "you go bankrupt!" nonsense. Also do you even know what bankruptcy is?

that has to be the most ignorant statement i've seen concerning our health insurance policies.

break a leg outside of your HMO's network, then see how willing they are to cover you.
or...get in a carwreck, take a ride in an ambulance (while unconscious, of course), and wee how willing they are to help you out since you "neglected" to OK an out-of-network trip on that ambulance ride.

HMO's are run by profiteers, not medical personel.

My mother in law has had to visit the emergency room on 2 different occasions while visiting us here in Virginia. She is from Montreal, Quebec and guess how much of the bill her wonderful national health care reimbursed her for? Try 0. Oddly enough even though they had no guarantee of ever receiving a single cent in payment for their services both time the hospital here treated her without hesitation.

again, it's not about being denied treatment. It's about being confronted with the cost. Hospitals are routinely driven into bankruptcy b/c of the BS insurance industry. They have policies to cover these expenses, but that don't make up for the costs, often forcing them to sell out to the Insurance Company.

So, where did the bill for your mother-in-law's emergency visits go?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

c'mon...you know better. We have TONS of quality beer in the states. We just don't mass produce it. Frankly, I'd rather the good stuff stay small, as once one of our products tends to hit the industrial scale, it tends to go to the pooper.

lol, the smaller labels can be pretty good

I guess I'm just bitter about having to ingest swill for so many years back home and pretend I'm enjoying it 😛


Which reminds me, does anyone remember where a good chunk of my Ron Zacapa 23 year old rum has gotten to?


😉

no comment 😀

...however, why would you choose to drink swill in the first place? no reason to pretend you like it. Do you need a new US beerducation?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

again, it's not about being denied treatment. It's about being confronted with the cost. Hospitals are routinely driven into bankruptcy b/c of the BS insurance industry. They have policies to cover these expenses, but that don't make up for the costs, often forcing them to sell out to the Insurance Company.

medical care is scarce and must be rationed in some fashion or another.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: NeoV
I love how so few Americans are willing to concede that anything outside of our country is better.

I don't agree with many of the points the op made, but -

health care benefits
maternity leave
gun control

Are three HUGE areas that most of Europe has a giant advantage over the United States in.

You are seriously saying gun control is a positive?

if gun control leads to lower murder rates, than yes - it's positive.

So we should take away rights guaranteed to every US citizen? What right is taken away next when you have no means of defending yourself? Free speech? Religion? Right to vote?

so you're OK with the privacy rights that have already been taken from you over the last 5 years? Are you prepared to use your guns to take those rights back? If not, then you have have no idea why you have the right to those guns.

Thats a tad extreme. There is middle ground between acceptance and wanting to shoot someone over it. I still believe we have the right to vote and use our voice in opposition first. Guns should be the last resort but won't be if they are taken first.

Do you consider the right to be armed far more American than the right to your own privacy?

btw, I am not anti-gun. However, I find most pro-gun folks claim that gun-control strips them of the right to their own lives, their own property, i.e. privacy. Why is gun-control more of an infringement on privacy than is allowing un-warrented wire-tapping, suspending habeas corpus, etc...?

My example is extreme, but imo it is government out of control. when exactly do you decide that enough is enough? are some rights greater than others?

As I said above, I consider it the final "enforcer" of those rights. When all civil means are exhausted there will be a call to arms. How do you do this if your opponent is the only one with weapons?

I don't know how I could put them in any order. When you start taking away some rights it all kinda falls apart. I'm a selfish American, I want them all.

me too 😀

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Zinfamous,

You are more than welcome to purchase a more comprehensive plan that meets your needs. THAT's freedom.

you still don't get it, Jr. I'm pretty sure my plan is better than anything you would be offered. read my latest posts.

BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

This isn't about my health plan, it's about the millions in this country who have no care, who have a significantly shorter lifespan, and even those who are covered but are driven into poverty b/c they have no choice of health plan.

Anyhoo, this thread is about jingoistic Americans without any experience outside of the country (read: absolutely no understanding of what their rights or freedoms mean, let alone grounds for comparing the US system to any other) blasting the OP after bltatantly misreading his intent. get back on it 😉

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: freegeeks
can't we just all get along and have a :beer:

Only if it is European, making large amounts of quality beer is something we have yet to master here in the states. 😉

c'mon...you know better. We have TONS of quality beer in the states. We just don't mass produce it. Frankly, I'd rather the good stuff stay small, as once one of our products tends to hit the industrial scale, it tends to go to the pooper.

lol, the smaller labels can be pretty good

I guess I'm just bitter about having to ingest swill for so many years back home and pretend I'm enjoying it 😛


Which reminds me, does anyone remember where a good chunk of my Ron Zacapa 23 year old rum has gotten to?


😉

no comment 😀

...however, why would you choose to drink swill in the first place? no reason to pretend you like it. Do you need a new US beerducation?

When you suggest getting some good beer for a change and your friends say something to the effect of: "You mean like MGD?" you know things aren't going your way.