Why is there controversy over Atkins?

[Crazymofo]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Rip, I think you know the answer to your question. The people who knock it, don't understand it. They read a little here and there, and then spread the misconceptions. For example:

Originally posted by: hdeck

Originally posted by: notfred
Because some people think that there might be a problem with a diet that allows you to drink bacon grease but not eat a peanut butter sandwich.

nicely put =)

"Nicely put", maybe... Wholly inaccurate, definitely.

Originally posted by: Ranger X
It's a diet to eliminate carbs and I'm not sure if fruits were included in the Atkins diet.

No, you are completely wrong. It is NOT a diet to "eliminate carbs". I intake about 40 carbs a day. (And yes, that includes fruit.)

Originally posted by: yukichigai
If you just sit on your tookus all day it's not going to be the best thing in the world for you.

For some reason, people think that exercise isn't needed. Well, apparently these "experts" forgot to read the chapter entitled: Exercise: It's non-negotiable

Originally posted by: yukichigai
The key problem with the Atkins diet isn't the glucose/sugar thing really, so much as the effect it has on your renal system. (Kidneys, bladder, etc.) The Atkins diet initiates a state of Ketosis, which means you start to get rid of a lot of water. A good deal of the weight you lose in the first few weeks is water weight. The problem with this is that it taxes your kidneys pretty hard, possibly leading to renal (kidney) failure.

I believe there were a couple of cases where people with pre-existing kidney conditions had complications. But I have yet to find a single example of anyone on a low carb diet suffering from renal problems caused by this nutritional plan. If you happen to have any (factual) findings, please direct me towards them, as I have yet to see them.

Oh btw, if done properly, you intake enough water to keep up.

Originally posted by: agnitrate
Because it's not healthy for your body. You need vegetables/fruits to make a balanced diet. Certain people take it to the extreme and decide to eat pounds of meat a day, no fruits or vegetables, and claim they are healthy.

You are correct... Vegetables and fruit are good for you. Which is why vegetables are ALWAYS recommended, and fruits are recommended after Induction.


The gist is that many people on ATOT simply talk out of their @ss. They have no clue... They haven't done any research... They have zero experience with it... Yet they speak as if they are experts.

Thank you Wingznut!!! Glad I didnt have to type all that myself!

Looking around at all the negitive comments on here really explains why America is the fatest country on the planet!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[crazygal]

Actually, leeches are still used today and are quite benificial.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: agnitrate

Originally posted by: ElFenix

what i just said, plus the fact that people like agnitrate have no idea what the atkins diet is and don't realize that after breaking the body of its additiction to carbs for the first two weeks you start adding carbs back in and quickly can eat many kinds of vegetables and fruit

I work at the nation's only certified organic food store and there is a reason we don't carry Atkins products. I know of the basics of the diet and nothing more because we don't recognize it as a healthy way to lose weight. That should say something about the diet in general... :Q

-silver

you don't even know the basics of the diet? it sounds like you haven't gotten past the first 2 week part and you think thats the whole damn diet.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Wingznut
The Atkins plan recommends 8 full glasses of water per day. I don't believe this is any different than any other nutritional plan. Are you really running more water through your renal system on this plan?

Yes, you do lose water at the beginning. But after a few days, it balances out.

Considering you are still losing water weight even if you drink that much water I would say yes, it flushes more fluids through your system. The added ketones don't help much either.

So, you are saying that 13 weeks (and 29 lbs) later that I am still losing enough water weight... Not only that, but enough to cause damage to my kidneys?

No, or at least not nearly as much. You aren't in such a drastic state of ketosis at that point compared to the beginning of the plan. It's the first 4 weeks or so that really do the bulk of the damage.

Bulk of the damage???

Happen to have any concrete info handy on this "bulk of the damage"?

Like I said before, I've yet to hear of a single case where a low carb plan has caused any kidney damage.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I recent study for a BBC TV program, on a selection of 300 adults over 6 months on 3 different diet types(one of which was Atkins), showed that the most worrying aspect was the weight loss of the Atkins groups was 50/50 Fat/muscle.

How can that be good?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Crazymofo
Thank you Wingznut!!! Glad I didnt have to type all that myself!

Looking around at all the negitive comments on here really explains why America is the fatest country on the planet!!!!!!!!!!!

You're welcome. (I just hope people actually take the minute to read it.)

And when talking about the "fattest country", don't forget that we also have the highest (rising) rate of diabetes. I personally blame the food pyramid for that fact. With all the sugars, refined flours, etc in the typical diet, it's no wonder.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Wingznut
The Atkins plan recommends 8 full glasses of water per day. I don't believe this is any different than any other nutritional plan. Are you really running more water through your renal system on this plan?

Yes, you do lose water at the beginning. But after a few days, it balances out.

Considering you are still losing water weight even if you drink that much water I would say yes, it flushes more fluids through your system. The added ketones don't help much either.

So, you are saying that 13 weeks (and 29 lbs) later that I am still losing enough water weight... Not only that, but enough to cause damage to my kidneys?

No, or at least not nearly as much. You aren't in such a drastic state of ketosis at that point compared to the beginning of the plan. It's the first 4 weeks or so that really do the bulk of the damage.

Bulk of the damage???

Happen to have any concrete info handy on this "bulk of the damage"?

Like I said before, I've yet to hear of a single case where a low carb plan has caused any kidney damage.

I'm at work: I can't pull medical case history out of my ass. But like I said, I've met someone who got hit with kidney failure because of the diet. If you really want I can bug that nutritionist sometime and get some links.

 

[agnitrate]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: agnitrate

Originally posted by: ElFenix

what i just said, plus the fact that people like agnitrate have no idea what the atkins diet is and don't realize that after breaking the body of its additiction to carbs for the first two weeks you start adding carbs back in and quickly can eat many kinds of vegetables and fruit

I work at the nation's only certified organic food store and there is a reason we don't carry Atkins products. I know of the basics of the diet and nothing more because we don't recognize it as a healthy way to lose weight. That should say something about the diet in general... :Q

-silver

you don't even know the basics of the diet? it sounds like you haven't gotten past the first 2 week part and you think thats the whole damn diet.

I consider the first 2 weeks the basics

The first part is what alarms me about it. Many people do not follow the guidelines and will continue eating poorly etc, etc.

I just get tired of all the disgustingly overweight people coming in to our store and asking us if we have Atkins food while their cart is full of pounds upon pounds of meat. It's the people like that who are giving this diet an even worse name.

I just believe there are healthier ways to lose weight and that it often takes much more determination to be removed from particular foods on other diets than on Atkins which shows your accomplishment much better.

-silver

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: yukichigai
I'm at work: I can't pull medical case history out of my ass. But like I said, I've met someone who got hit with kidney failure because of the diet. If you really want I can bug that nutritionist sometime and get some links.

And you are certain that this one person's kidney issues were directly caused by too much water going through the renal system? This person had no pre-existing conditions or dispositions to kidney problems?

Even just assuming that this person had no prior issues, you can't conclusively say (based on ONE person) that a low carb diet causes kidney failure. One couldn't know if this person was destined to have kidney issues, no matter what their diet was.

Obviously, there are thousands upon thousands of others who have had no problems whatsoever.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: yukichigai
I'm at work: I can't pull medical case history out of my ass. But like I said, I've met someone who got hit with kidney failure because of the diet. If you really want I can bug that nutritionist sometime and get some links.

And you are certain that this one person's kidney issues were directly caused by too much water going through the renal system? This person had no pre-existing conditions or dispositions to kidney problems?

Even just assuming that this person had no prior issues, you can't conclusively say (based on ONE person) that a low carb diet causes kidney failure. One couldn't know if this person was destined to have kidney issues, no matter what their diet was.

Obviously, there are thousands upon thousands of others who have had no problems whatsoever.

It was actually ketosis, i.e. the crap in his urine, plus the overtaxing of his kidneys. As far as preexisting conditions go he had no warning signs whatsoever, was in good health. Doctors found nothing that I heard about. His body just couldn't handle it.

The thousands upon thousands of people are likely doing damage to their kidneys that they can't notice. Renal failure is one of those things that just happens really quick, with very little warning. You have to be actively testing for it to notice.

 

[Crazymofo]

The whole "kidney problem" thing is based on how the extra ketones released in your body increase your uric acid level. I hope I don't break anyone's bubble, but ANYTIME YOU LOSE WEIGHT, IT IS RELEASED IN THE FORM OF KETONES (sign of partially broken down fat cells), THEREFORE, ON ANY DIET, YOUR URIC ACID LEVEL WILL BE HIGH WHILE YOU ARE BREAKING DOWN FAT.

EDIT: btw, people keep confusing Ketosis with Ketoacidosis (which is the bad one). Ketoacidosis is only achieved in states of like massive starvation and whatnot (ie: stranded in the desert for a week without food). Do your reading, kids.

Also, most people actually LOWER their cholesterol on Atkins, (if done correctly). It has something to do with the fact that your blood sugar is generally lower, therefore needing less insulin to be produced from your pancreas, thus letting your body break down fat in place of the carbs that you usually burn.

Also, I have read that your brain only needs 20g of glucose to operate correctly, therefore MAKING THAT POINT COMPLETELY ABSURD BECAUSE OF INDUCTION LETTING YOU HAVE 20G OF CARBS... Also, I have read but forget exactly something about how your body can turn protein into glucose (and its not like it's going to burn your muslce, considering how much protein you consume on this diet...)

People really need to do their research before they assume all this crap. I swear people nowadays are too impatient to read and decipher things for themselves.

Did any of you read this post? It puts all your views on the "dangers" of ketosis to rest!

 

[Crazymofo]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: yukichigai
I'm at work: I can't pull medical case history out of my ass. But like I said, I've met someone who got hit with kidney failure because of the diet. If you really want I can bug that nutritionist sometime and get some links.

And you are certain that this one person's kidney issues were directly caused by too much water going through the renal system? This person had no pre-existing conditions or dispositions to kidney problems?

Even just assuming that this person had no prior issues, you can't conclusively say (based on ONE person) that a low carb diet causes kidney failure. One couldn't know if this person was destined to have kidney issues, no matter what their diet was.

Obviously, there are thousands upon thousands of others who have had no problems whatsoever.

It was actually ketosis, i.e. the crap in his urine, plus the overtaxing of his kidneys. As far as preexisting conditions go he had no warning signs whatsoever, was in good health. Doctors found nothing that I heard about. His body just couldn't handle it.

The thousands upon thousands of people are likely doing damage to their kidneys that they can't notice. Renal failure is one of those things that just happens really quick, with very little warning. You have to be actively testing for it to notice.

Dr. Atkins stress's that you MUST see a doctor before starting the diet and it seems that this person didnt do that. If he had the Doc would have told him not to do the atkins diet.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Crazymofo

The whole "kidney problem" thing is based on how the extra ketones released in your body increase your uric acid level. I hope I don't break anyone's bubble, but ANYTIME YOU LOSE WEIGHT, IT IS RELEASED IN THE FORM OF KETONES (sign of partially broken down fat cells), THEREFORE, ON ANY DIET, YOUR URIC ACID LEVEL WILL BE HIGH WHILE YOU ARE BREAKING DOWN FAT.

EDIT: btw, people keep confusing Ketosis with Ketoacidosis (which is the bad one). Ketoacidosis is only achieved in states of like massive starvation and whatnot (ie: stranded in the desert for a week without food). Do your reading, kids.

Also, most people actually LOWER their cholesterol on Atkins, (if done correctly). It has something to do with the fact that your blood sugar is generally lower, therefore needing less insulin to be produced from your pancreas, thus letting your body break down fat in place of the carbs that you usually burn.

Also, I have read that your brain only needs 20g of glucose to operate correctly, therefore MAKING THAT POINT COMPLETELY ABSURD BECAUSE OF INDUCTION LETTING YOU HAVE 20G OF CARBS... Also, I have read but forget exactly something about how your body can turn protein into glucose (and its not like it's going to burn your muslce, considering how much protein you consume on this diet...)

People really need to do their research before they assume all this crap. I swear people nowadays are too impatient to read and decipher things for themselves.

Did any of you read this post? It puts all your views on the "dangers" of ketosis to rest!

Ketosis is characterized by high fluid output by your body. The Atkins diet induces this state at a high level. This is what the problem is, not ketoacidosis.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: agnitrate
The first part is what alarms me about it. Many people do not follow the guidelines and will continue eating poorly etc, etc.

I just get tired of all the disgustingly overweight people coming in to our store and asking us if we have Atkins food while their cart is full of pounds upon pounds of meat. It's the people like that who are giving this diet an even worse name.

I just believe there are healthier ways to lose weight and that it often takes much more determination to be removed from particular foods on other diets than on Atkins which shows your accomplishment much better.

-silver

So, your opinions of the Atkins plan stem from those who do it incorrectly??? If I apply that to most any aspect of life, I could denounce ANYTHING as unheathy/destructive. Does that sound rational to you?

And no, the determination is the same. It is very difficult to pass on sandwiches, pizza, desserts, soda, etc. Obviously, you have never tried, for any length of time.

As for accomplishments, take a look at My Weight Chart. Not counting the first two weeks, I'm losing about 1.52 lbs/wk which I don't think is unusually fast. Actually, everything I've read states that the 1-2 lbs/week rate is ideal for long-term success.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: agnitrate

I consider the first 2 weeks the basics

The first part is what alarms me about it. Many people do not follow the guidelines and will continue eating poorly etc, etc.

I just get tired of all the disgustingly overweight people coming in to our store and asking us if we have Atkins food while their cart is full of pounds upon pounds of meat. It's the people like that who are giving this diet an even worse name.

I just believe there are healthier ways to lose weight and that it often takes much more determination to be removed from particular foods on other diets than on Atkins which shows your accomplishment much better.

-silver

first, believe what you want, but the fact of the matter is that the rate at which people change their minds over what is good for you in dieting and what is bad for you in dieting is an indication that those people don't really know for sure wtf they're talking about. eggs are good, eggs are bad , eggs are good, eggs are bad again.

second, if you don't know what the hell the atkins diet is, beyond the first two weeks where you break your addiction to carbs, then you can't argue effectively against it. maybe if you took the time to figure out what the hell the rest of the diet is you wouldn't come on here and spout off absolute crap. yes, the people who don't know how it works and just go on a high protein, high fat, no carb diet for months are giving the atkins diet a bad name by claming that they're on it when they are not. the atkins diet isn't about eating no carbs the rest of your life, its about figuring out what your carb intake is that keeps your weight where you want it. really i'd like you to name a better way to lose weight and then maintain a certain level than cutting out sugar and excercising while taking in plenty of fiber.

as far as being easier to resist the foods verboten on atkins, obviously you've never had bread cravings.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: Crazymofo
Looking around at all the negitive comments on here really explains why America is the fatest country on the planet!!!!!!!!!!!

The Atkins diet is far from the savior of America being the supposed fatest country. It is the crap people eat and the pure laziness of people.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
first, believe what you want, but the fact of the matter is that the rate at which people change their minds over what is good for you in dieting and what is bad for you in dieting is an indication that those people don't really know for sure wtf they're talking about. eggs are good, eggs are bad , eggs are good, eggs are bad again.

Eggs are bad.

I have problems with sulfur.

 

[Bateluer]

Best Diet In the World:

A well rounded diet, good exercise. Running or swimming, preferably running. Here is what you do. Go running for about 30 mins 3 days per week. The other 3 days per week, do some weight training to build muscle and tone.

And, as always, drink plenty of water.

Damn 21st laziness. You want a good body? You are going to have to work for it.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: Crazymofo
Looking around at all the negitive comments on here really explains why America is the fatest country on the planet!!!!!!!!!!!

The Atkins diet is far from the savior of America being the supposed fatest country. It is the crap people eat and the pure laziness of people.

I think his point was that many people have found a method that works great for them... But then they are surrounded by naysayers, as evidenced by any thread on ATOT where someone is considering Atkins.

I feel that one reason this is so, is because it is human nature (at least in this culture) not to want someone else to succeed where they have failed.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Best Diet In the World:

A well rounded diet, good exercise. Running or swimming, preferably running. Here is what you do. Go running for about 30 mins 3 days per week. The other 3 days per week, do some weight training to build muscle and tone.

And, as always, drink plenty of water.

Damn 21st laziness. You want a good body? You are going to have to work for it.

The Atkins plan completely agrees with you. If you are interested, be sure to read Chapter 22 - Exercise: It's non-negotiable.

 

[yukichigai]

Just for general refference I would like to point out that I have no real problem with the Atkins diet, as I come from rich German ancestry and as a kid I basically was on the Atkins diet, since I liked meat so much. (No fiber or veggies though, so my intestines were unhappy) It's people who come from ancestry that has been historically reliant upon high-carb food sources (like the Irish, another part of my ancestry) that should be careful.


EDIT: Oh yes, I do have a non-physical problem with the Atkins diet as I am a semi-talented cook, and there's only so much you can do with no carbs in the food. I stick to exercise.

 

[tokamak]

what i want to know is where the hell did this Atkins stuff come from? i hadn't even heard of it like 2 weeks ago, now i can't stop hearing about it. i work in a restaurant and every other woman that comes in is all *im on atkins what do you have that i can eat blah blah blah*....

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: tokamak
what i want to know is where the hell did this Atkins stuff come from? i hadn't even heard of it like 2 weeks ago, now i can't stop hearing about it. i work in a restaurant and every other woman that comes in is all *im on atkins what do you have that i can eat blah blah blah*....

It was a diet/eating plan developed in the 1970's by Dr. Atkins.

 

[skace]

Haha so many people don't know their ass from their elbow when they start talking about the Atkins diet. Notfred summarized this point the first time he decided to type up a post. I'm glad some people decided to argue for Atkins because I don't have the patience to sit here typing up huge posts that most people won't even read before posting something else that was already corrected.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: yukichigai
I'm at work: I can't pull medical case history out of my ass. But like I said, I've met someone who got hit with kidney failure because of the diet. If you really want I can bug that nutritionist sometime and get some links.

And you are certain that this one person's kidney issues were directly caused by too much water going through the renal system? This person had no pre-existing conditions or dispositions to kidney problems?

Even just assuming that this person had no prior issues, you can't conclusively say (based on ONE person) that a low carb diet causes kidney failure. One couldn't know if this person was destined to have kidney issues, no matter what their diet was.

Obviously, there are thousands upon thousands of others who have had no problems whatsoever.

I personally enjoyed his hypothesis that the first 10lbs of weight loss is water. Given 10lbs of weight loss that is over a gallon of water. The body needs 1/2 gallon of water per day with death from dehydration at occuring after 3 days or approximately 1.5 gallons of water loss. So on Atkins you are obviously severely dehydrated and hours away from death! :beer: