Why is there controversy over Atkins?

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
I have NEVER seen so many ignorant replies in one post than this one. How can you possibly debate a subject that you have'nt even taken the time to research?

If people quit debating subjects that they know relatively little about... Well, ATOT would probably cease to exist.

 

[The Sauce]

To me this is an accurate depection of your bias in the matter because this diet does go against conventional wisdom. The problem is that conventional wisdom is not always right and can be shown to be drastically wrong.

I agree whole-heartedly. Your h. pylori example is a good one. However, as I have stated, the absence of harmful effects has not been sufficiently proven. That is my only point. We do not know what the long term effects of prolonged ketogenesis and radical weight-loss as a result are. And Atkins never did the studies.

Because of the popularity of Atkins and similar diets and the fact that they DO work in helping people lose weight the government has finally agreed to fund two studies into the effects and efficiency of both a low carb diet and a low fat diet.

Right. Those two studies were published in the NEJM and were equivocal, essentially showing no difference between Atkins and calorie restriction diets at 12 months. Hence, what we have is 1.) no proven efficacy and, 2.) potential hazard (unproven safety).

Do not fall into the trap that "conventional wisdom" is right. Conventional wisdom said stomach ulcers we caused by stress until a bacterial parasite was identified as the cause.

Yes, however when J. Robin Warren and Barry Marshall discovered h. pylori, they satisfied Koch's postulates and proved causation on themselves by ingesting the bacteria. Now that is dedication to science. Atkins never did adequaste research to prove that his diet was safe and efficacious. He just published lots of books full of anecdotal cases and patient testimonials. Totally useless in a scientific sense, but it sure did sell books.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
I recent study for a BBC TV program, on a selection of 300 adults over 6 months on 3 different diet types(one of which was Atkins), showed that the most worrying aspect was the weight loss of the Atkins groups was 50/50 Fat/muscle.

How can that be good?

Overweight people don't care about *muscle* they just want to hit x amount of weight or be able to look at their feet when standing up. Man I see enough overweight people around. Granted that not everyone has free time to train and exercise but they SHOULD not get in to such a state that the belly comes about half a foot or MORE from a verical line from their chin..........that just is not right...........

Forgot to mention that I'm supplementing as follows:

1 Men's One-a-day multivitamin
2 Fish oil pills
2 Glucosamine/chondroytin tablets
1 Calcium tablet
1 81 mg aspirin

20 g of protein (Whey protein) in morning and evening.

As far as excercise, I run 3 - 5 miles/day. Lift weights every other day, and do push-ups, crunches, stretching everyday.

See thats the big difference. You are doing quite a bit of exercise. Overweight people don't want to put that effort in. Anyone on a crap diet that runs 3-5miles a day and does some lifting even if its completely crap will get some results.

I will say I have not read the Atkins diet. I don't intend to and I can't be bothered.

People just eat food in moderation and do some exercise. They will get to a *good* weight and look better. Everything in moderation. Can't believe why people can't do this? But people want the *easy* way out. Do a few pills here and there and lose weight. If someone actually came out with a weightloss pill = $$$$$$$ that was safe........

 

[awolkoff]

Originally posted by: notfred
Because some people think that there might be a problem with a diet that allows you to drink bacon grease but not eat a peanut butter sandwich.

Excellent.
The best explanation yet.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Yes, however when J. Robin Warren and Barry Marshall discovered h. pylori, they satisfied Koch's postulates and proved causation on themselves by ingesting the bacteria. Now that is dedication to science. Atkins never did adequaste research to prove that his diet was safe and efficacious. He just published lots of books full of anecdotal cases and patient testimonials. Totally useless in a scientific sense, but it sure did sell books.

I agree with you completely actually. I want more research. Hopefully some federal funding will research the long term effects of some of the more popular diets so we can say affirmatively whether the diet is harmful and whether it works. One thing to keep in mind about Atkins and the reason I'm using it right now (I don't intend to conform to the diet long term other than attempting to limit the amount of refined sugars I eat) is that it's teaching me to control my eating. I'm about 15lbs overweight with a BMI of 25 which is borderline but I eat when bored and tend to binge till stuffed. Atkins is helping me learn NOT to do that. Meat is incredibly filling in very small portions.

I'm not sure if you have read the book but I would encourage you to if you haven't just to familiarize yourself with what he is advocating so when you see patients on the diet you know what to expect. Atkins catches a lot of flack for what people percieve the diet as but their perceptions are almost fully based on induction. Induction has a two fold purpose, to break carb cravings (which are incredibly intense the first 1.5weeks) and to start lypolisis. Carb intake increases pretty quickly once you are out of induction if your metabolism supports it.

 

[nemesismk2]

Once again the only healthy way to lose weight is with a healthy balanced diet and moderate exercise. The atkins diet is for people who care very little for their health and are too lazy to do any exercise.

 

[Babbles]

I didn't read most of this thread, as something that comes up quite a bit. But what I do find somewhat ironic about the Atkins, while yes it is a bit extreme but if you are massively overweight it may require extreme measures, is that it is close to what many atheletes and body builders have known for over 20 year. It is just now that more and more mainstream people have heard of Atkins and suddenly they are experts on what is best for the body.

Whatever.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Once again the only healthy way to lose weight is with a healthy balanced diet and moderate exercise. The atkins diet is for people who care very little for their health and are too lazy to do any exercise.

Yet again... Another uneducated soul sounding off, without actually knowing what the Atkins plan is about (or even reading the entire thread.)

NOWHERE does the plan suggest not to exercise. Next time you feel like offerring your opinion, do yourself a huge favor and perform even the slightest research. Hell, all you'd have to do is read the table of contents of the book, and you'd find Chapter 22 entitled - Exercise: It's non-negotiable.

Don't have access to (or know how to use) a library? Browse around Atkins.com. There you will find information such as: "Unless you are physically unable to do so, exercise every day..."


I'm not even going to bother much with the "Atkins people care very little about their health" statement, other than to point out what an oxymoron it is that you are telling people who are losing weight that they don't care about their health, and that you have no idea how it all works.

 

[DT4K]

This Article from the NY Times makes some interesting points.
Not that any of you idiots who spout off about something you know nothing about will actually take the time to read it.

What does "Common Sense" mean to you people?

Many of you have said things like "we don't need someone to tell us what to eat, just eat healthy foods."
Well, how do you know what foods are healthy if someone doesn't tell you?
The only reason you assume something is healthy is because that is what you have been told by the government and some medical professionals. How do you know they are right?

It is only in the past 25 years that we have been told that fat is bad for us. Before that, it was assumed that fat and protein helped keep us satisfied and that carbohydrate rich foods like pasta and potatoes would make us fat.
There is a correlation between the push to eat low-fat and the increasing obesity and diabetes in this country.

Read the article if you are interested.

 

[skace]

I read this thread the first time through, but I was at work and didn't click Riprorin's picture. I have just gotta say now that, Holy sht Riprorin, congrats. You've given the proof and yet people still get mad and sling mud when they read about Atkins. Probably because they themselves are pissed at how they look / etc. You worked hard and made it happen, thats what its all about.

So yea, congrats dude.

 

[nemesismk2]

The British food standard agency has recently stated that, the Atkin's diet can cause nutritional deficiency, diabetes, cancer and heart disease. They also recommend that British people don't follow the Atkin's diet because it's not safe.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
The British food standard agency has recently stated that, the Atkin's diet can cause nutritional deficiency, diabetes, cancer and heart disease. They also recommend that British people don't follow the Atkin's diet because it's not safe.

Go away.

Your (obviously uneducated) ranting of Atkins is getting old.

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Doc. I lost 20 lbs in 6 weeks eating the diet below. I've maintained my target weight (5'8", 153 lbs) by bumping up the quantity of food I eat at dinner and snacking more.

Breakfast: 1/2 Fiber 1 Cereal or Oatmeal, 1/2 cup soy milk, 1/2 cup fruit (berries or melon)

Lunch: Spinach salad with turkey and ham strips and blue cheese dressing, apple with peanut butter (oil on top)

Dinner: Meat (principally chicken but also beef, lamb and pork), fish, or tofu, vegetable (Zucchini, broccoli, eggplant, green beans), and fruit (melon, grapefruit, berries), cheese, yougurt.

I snack on nuts (pecans, almonds, pistacchio).

I eat no refined sugar, no white flour, and a very limited amount of bread and pasta. I don't eat any junk food or baked goods.

From my reading of Atkins, I'm on the Atkins diet.

Are you suggesting this diet puts me at risk for long term health problems?

Youre not on Atkin's if youre eating like that.

The entire point of Atkins is to remove carbs completely, putting your body into ketosis.

And yes, prolonged ketosis is dangerous. It throws your kidneys on overdrive, and simply isnt healthy. A healthy and effective alternative is CKD, or a "cyclical ketosis diet". You go for 5-7 days in ketosis, then have a "carb up" at the end to restore glycogen stores. Rinse and repeat. It maintains high energy levels, doesnt wreak havoc with your organs, and is an efficient way to lose fat.

Of course, there are several dozen other diets that work just as effectively.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
The entire point of Atkins is to remove carbs completely...

NO, IT IS NOT.

Will the day ever come when people do even the smallest bit of research before posting in here as if they know what they are talking about???

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Doc. I lost 20 lbs in 6 weeks eating the diet below. I've maintained my target weight (5'8", 153 lbs) by bumping up the quantity of food I eat at dinner and snacking more.

Breakfast: 1/2 Fiber 1 Cereal or Oatmeal, 1/2 cup soy milk, 1/2 cup fruit (berries or melon)

Lunch: Spinach salad with turkey and ham strips and blue cheese dressing, apple with peanut butter (oil on top)

Dinner: Meat (principally chicken but also beef, lamb and pork), fish, or tofu, vegetable (Zucchini, broccoli, eggplant, green beans), and fruit (melon, grapefruit, berries), cheese, yougurt.

I snack on nuts (pecans, almonds, pistacchio).

I eat no refined sugar, no white flour, and a very limited amount of bread and pasta. I don't eat any junk food or baked goods.

From my reading of Atkins, I'm on the Atkins diet.

Are you suggesting this diet puts me at risk for long term health problems?

Youre not on Atkin's if youre eating like that.

The entire point of Atkins is to remove carbs completely, putting your body into ketosis.

And yes, prolonged ketosis is dangerous. It throws your kidneys on overdrive, and simply isnt healthy. A healthy and effective alternative is CKD, or a "cyclical ketosis diet". You go for 5-7 days in ketosis, then have a "carb up" at the end to restore glycogen stores. Rinse and repeat. It maintains high energy levels, doesnt wreak havoc with your organs, and is an efficient way to lose fat.

Of course, there are several dozen other diets that work just as effectively.

Ripped from Atkins.com .....again

Fallacy: Ketosis is dangerous and causes a variety of medical problems.
Fact: Our bodies have only two fuel delivery systems to provide us with energy. Our primary fuel is based on carbohydrate and is delivered as glucose. People who eat three so-called balanced meals every day get virtually all their energy from glucose. But the alternate backup fuel is stored fat, and this fuel system delivers energy by way of ketones whenever our small supply of glucose is used up (in a maximum of two days).

When a person doing Atkins releases ketones, he or she is in ketosis. Ketosis occurs when you are taking in a very low level of carbohydrate from the food you eat, as you will during much of the weight-loss phases of Atkins. Ketones are secreted in the urine (and at times in one's breath), a perfectly normal and natural function of the body. The more ketones you release, the more fat you have dissolved.

Part of this fallacy is the claim that ketones can build up to dangerous levels in the body. Studies show that ketone bodies are very tightly regulated in the body and will not increase beyond the normal range in healthy individuals. (Uncontrolled diabetics, alcoholics and people who have been on prolonged fasts might see an increase in ketones beyond the normal range.) The body regulates ketone levels the same way it regulates blood-glucose or pH levels1-4. And at The Atkins Center for Complementary Medicine, practitioners have repeatedly observed that overweight patients produce just enough ketones to meet their immediate needs for fuel?and no more. A person will have no more ketones after three months of controlling carbohydrates than they do after three days. It is highly unlikely that people, other than insulin-dependent diabetics, will build up ketones.

Confusion about ketosis often comes from people mistaking it for ketoacidosis, a condition found in Type I diabetics; this occurs when a person's blood sugar is out of control and he or she cannot produce insulin. No doctor should have trouble differentiating physiologic ketosis, which you will experience while doing Atkins, from ketoacidosis. Further, since people are often overweight specifically because of an overabundance of insulin, it is essentially impossible for them to be in ketoacidosis.

Some individuals at the ketogenic level of controlled carbohydrate eating may experience mild symptoms such as unusual breath odor and constipation. However, the vast majority of individuals do not develop problems. One study of a severely ketogenic diet showed that ketosis was benign, with no complications or side effects when studied in metabolic ward conditions. The month-long study documented heart, kidney, liver and blood-cell functions in the patients and found no adverse effects5.

In other studies, it has been shown that bone health was not compromised6-12 and that renal (kidney) function was found to be stable1, 14-16 on controlled carbohydrate diets. There is even scientific literature on hyperlipidemia (elevated blood fats, such as cholesterol and triglycerides), showing improved values on controlled carbohydrate diets17-28.

So the next time you read that the ketosis produced by the Atkins Nutritional Approach is dangerous, challenge the speaker or writer (in a letter to the editor, if necessary) and ask, "What is so dangerous about using up your stored fat?"

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
The British food standard agency has recently stated that, the Atkin's diet can cause nutritional deficiency, diabetes, cancer and heart disease. They also recommend that British people don't follow the Atkin's diet because it's not safe.

Go away.

Your (obviously uneducated) ranting of Atkins is getting old.

What's makes you an expert on anything? Just because you were really fat and then went on the atkin's diet doesn't make you an expert.

I think people should take more notice of the food standard agency than some uneducated comments from people like you. Incase you didn't know:-

The Food Standards Agency is an independent food safety watchdog set up by an Act of Parliament in 2000 to protect the public's health and consumer interests in relation to food.

What are the FSA's aims?

Between 2001 and 2006, the Agency's key aims are to:

reduce foodborne illness by 20% by improving food safety right through the food chain
help people to eat more healthily
promote honest and informative labelling to help consumers
promote best practice within the food industry
improve the enforcement of food law
earn people's trust by what we do and how we do it

How will it do that?

By working hard to ensure that we are the UK's most reliable source of advice and information about food. The FSA's guiding principles are:

putting consumers first
being open and accessible
being independent

Starchy carbohydrates have been getting a bad press lately. Should I avoid them?

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
The entire point of Atkins is to remove carbs completely...

NO, IT IS NOT.

Will the day ever come when people do even the smallest bit of research before posting in here as if they know what they are talking about???

What makes you the expert Wingznut, you read a book and think your qualified, yeah right! :moon:

 

[Turkish]

Eat everything, just don't eat too much. When I say eat everything, there are a few exceptions, such as regular soda, donuts, ice cream cakes, and stuff like that.

That was my plan, and I lost 45 lbs in 3 months. Now I feel like a model

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: Xiety
Eat everything, just don't eat too much. When I say eat everything, there are a few exceptions, such as regular soda, donuts, ice cream cakes, and stuff like that.

That was my plan, and I lost 45 lbs in 3 months. Now I feel like a model

IMO, that is a much more intuitive and logical approach.

 

[TravisT]

My was on the Atkins diet to lose about 15 lbs after having our first daughter. For those of you who don't know what its about it is not about totally eliminating any kinds of carbs. Its about eating the right kinds and maintaining the amount you eat.

As of right now I can't see why it wouldn't be healthy with the way my wife eats. You lose weight pretty fast, but it is not as though you are depriving yourself of one specific type of food.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
The entire point of Atkins is to remove carbs completely...

NO, IT IS NOT.

Will the day ever come when people do even the smallest bit of research before posting in here as if they know what they are talking about???

What makes you the expert Wingznut, you read a book and think your qualified, yeah right! :moon:

You can not completely remove carbs from your diet. Read up on what the brain needs for energy before you post retarded comments again.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: Xiety
Eat everything, just don't eat too much. When I say eat everything, there are a few exceptions, such as regular soda, donuts, ice cream cakes, and stuff like that.

That was my plan, and I lost 45 lbs in 3 months. Now I feel like a model

IMO, that is a much more intuitive and logical approach.

Hey he's on to a new diet fad, it's called Common Sense.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: Xiety
Eat everything, just don't eat too much. When I say eat everything, there are a few exceptions, such as regular soda, donuts, ice cream cakes, and stuff like that.

That was my plan, and I lost 45 lbs in 3 months. Now I feel like a model

IMO, that is a much more intuitive and logical approach.

Hey he's on to a new diet fad, it's called Common Sense.

First off, when does it lose the title "fad"... It's been around for 30 years now, isn't that long enough?

Second, why knock people who do Atkins? What is the problem with them using the plan to become healthier? Why is the guy who does the low calorie approach somehow garner more respect?

 

[Wingznut]

Ok nemesismk2, let's use a little logic and rational and dissect this article... Starchy carbohydrates have been getting a bad press lately. Should I avoid them?

Cutting out starchy foods, or any food group, can be bad for your health because you could be missing out on a range of nutrients.

If I am supplimenting my diet with other foods that contain the same nutrients, I'm not missing out on anything.

This type of diet also tends to be unrealistic and dull, and not palatable enough to be tolerated for a long time.

That is subject to personal preference. Some people will get along just fine on the Atkins plan, some will have difficulties restraining from some types of foods. (Btw, this applies to any kind of nutritional plan.)

Low-carbohydrate diets tend to be high in fat, too, and eating a diet that is high in fat (especially saturated fat from foods such as meat, cheese, butter and cakes) could increase your chances of developing coronary heart disease.

The only studies that have been done to confirm this are when adding fat to the recommended (high carb) diet. When adding fat to a low carb diet, the body burns the fat and it is not stored. Take a look at my cholesterol results that I posted earlier. They are much improved since I started this diet.

High-fat diets are also associated with obesity, which is currently increasing in the UK. People who are obese are more likely to develop conditions such as diabetes and some cancers.

This statement is completely out of context with this topic. I've lost 39lbs on this diet... How does that make me obese?
And actually... High carb diets are more responsible for diabetes, not fat. Doctors have been prescribing low carb diets to diebetics for a long time now.

Low-carbohydrate diets also restrict the amount of fruit and veg you eat, but these foods provide lots of different vitamins and minerals, as well as fibre, which are vital for good health.

This article is now getting redundant. See my first point.

If you?re concerned about your weight, contact your GP or a dietitian.

I did. And she was very impressed with both my progress and blood test results.


In summary, the article is based around a lot of presumptions and "shoulds, coulds, and mights". Not a single item of proof in it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: Xiety
Eat everything, just don't eat too much. When I say eat everything, there are a few exceptions, such as regular soda, donuts, ice cream cakes, and stuff like that.

That was my plan, and I lost 45 lbs in 3 months. Now I feel like a model

IMO, that is a much more intuitive and logical approach.

Hey he's on to a new diet fad, it's called Common Sense.

First off, when does it lose the title "fad"... It's been around for 30 years now, isn't that long enough?

Second, why knock people who do Atkins? What is the problem with them using the plan to become healthier? Why is the guy who does the low calorie approach somehow garner more respect?

Wow, does that Atkins Diet cause mood swings because for the life of me I can't see where I posted that Atkins was a new Fad Diet or were I knocked People using it.