Why is there controversy over Atkins?

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
The entire point of Atkins is to remove carbs completely...

NO, IT IS NOT.

Will the day ever come when people do even the smallest bit of research before posting in here as if they know what they are talking about???

If its not, then i dont know why youre so enamored with the Atkins diet. If it doesnt promote removing carbs completely, its a "diet" thats been around for the past 100,000 years. :/

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Doc. I lost 20 lbs in 6 weeks eating the diet below. I've maintained my target weight (5'8", 153 lbs) by bumping up the quantity of food I eat at dinner and snacking more.

Breakfast: 1/2 Fiber 1 Cereal or Oatmeal, 1/2 cup soy milk, 1/2 cup fruit (berries or melon)

Lunch: Spinach salad with turkey and ham strips and blue cheese dressing, apple with peanut butter (oil on top)

Dinner: Meat (principally chicken but also beef, lamb and pork), fish, or tofu, vegetable (Zucchini, broccoli, eggplant, green beans), and fruit (melon, grapefruit, berries), cheese, yougurt.

I snack on nuts (pecans, almonds, pistacchio).

I eat no refined sugar, no white flour, and a very limited amount of bread and pasta. I don't eat any junk food or baked goods.

From my reading of Atkins, I'm on the Atkins diet.

Are you suggesting this diet puts me at risk for long term health problems?

Youre not on Atkin's if youre eating like that.

The entire point of Atkins is to remove carbs completely, putting your body into ketosis.

And yes, prolonged ketosis is dangerous. It throws your kidneys on overdrive, and simply isnt healthy. A healthy and effective alternative is CKD, or a "cyclical ketosis diet". You go for 5-7 days in ketosis, then have a "carb up" at the end to restore glycogen stores. Rinse and repeat. It maintains high energy levels, doesnt wreak havoc with your organs, and is an efficient way to lose fat.

Of course, there are several dozen other diets that work just as effectively.

Ripped from Atkins.com .....again

Fallacy: Ketosis is dangerous and causes a variety of medical problems.
Fact: Our bodies have only two fuel delivery systems to provide us with energy. Our primary fuel is based on carbohydrate and is delivered as glucose. People who eat three so-called balanced meals every day get virtually all their energy from glucose. But the alternate backup fuel is stored fat, and this fuel system delivers energy by way of ketones whenever our small supply of glucose is used up (in a maximum of two days).

When a person doing Atkins releases ketones, he or she is in ketosis. Ketosis occurs when you are taking in a very low level of carbohydrate from the food you eat, as you will during much of the weight-loss phases of Atkins. Ketones are secreted in the urine (and at times in one's breath), a perfectly normal and natural function of the body. The more ketones you release, the more fat you have dissolved.

Part of this fallacy is the claim that ketones can build up to dangerous levels in the body. Studies show that ketone bodies are very tightly regulated in the body and will not increase beyond the normal range in healthy individuals. (Uncontrolled diabetics, alcoholics and people who have been on prolonged fasts might see an increase in ketones beyond the normal range.) The body regulates ketone levels the same way it regulates blood-glucose or pH levels1-4. And at The Atkins Center for Complementary Medicine, practitioners have repeatedly observed that overweight patients produce just enough ketones to meet their immediate needs for fuel?and no more. A person will have no more ketones after three months of controlling carbohydrates than they do after three days. It is highly unlikely that people, other than insulin-dependent diabetics, will build up ketones.

Confusion about ketosis often comes from people mistaking it for ketoacidosis, a condition found in Type I diabetics; this occurs when a person's blood sugar is out of control and he or she cannot produce insulin. No doctor should have trouble differentiating physiologic ketosis, which you will experience while doing Atkins, from ketoacidosis. Further, since people are often overweight specifically because of an overabundance of insulin, it is essentially impossible for them to be in ketoacidosis.

Some individuals at the ketogenic level of controlled carbohydrate eating may experience mild symptoms such as unusual breath odor and constipation. However, the vast majority of individuals do not develop problems. One study of a severely ketogenic diet showed that ketosis was benign, with no complications or side effects when studied in metabolic ward conditions. The month-long study documented heart, kidney, liver and blood-cell functions in the patients and found no adverse effects5.

In other studies, it has been shown that bone health was not compromised6-12 and that renal (kidney) function was found to be stable1, 14-16 on controlled carbohydrate diets. There is even scientific literature on hyperlipidemia (elevated blood fats, such as cholesterol and triglycerides), showing improved values on controlled carbohydrate diets17-28.

So the next time you read that the ketosis produced by the Atkins Nutritional Approach is dangerous, challenge the speaker or writer (in a letter to the editor, if necessary) and ask, "What is so dangerous about using up your stored fat?"

I see, so you must think communism is the best thing since sliced bread, then? The people at communism.org seem to think so, so it must be true.

 

[Wingznut]

PaperclipGod, you are just plain mistaken on those two points. There really is no two ways about it.

The Atkins plan NEVER calls for "removing carbs completely", and in your second point you have ketosis confused with ketoacidosis. If you'd like to understand more about the plan, stop by you local bookstore or library and read the first couple of chapters of the book, or visit Atkins.com.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Wow, does that Atkins Diet cause mood swings because for the life of me I can't see where I posted that Atkins was a new Fad Diet or were I knocked People using it.

Heh, don't give yourself so much credit Red... You (or anyone else on the 'net, for that matter) aren't close enough to me to be able to sway my mood.

It's just that a lot of people call it a "fad diet", and I was wondering how long a concept has to be around before it is no longer given that label. *shrugs*

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
PaperclipGod, you are just plain mistaken on those two points. There really is no two ways about it.

The Atkins plan NEVER calls for "removing carbs completely", and in your second point you have ketosis confused with ketoacidosis. If you'd like to understand more about the plan, stop by you local bookstore or library and read the first couple of chapters of the book, or visit Atkins.com.

wingznut, paperclipgod clearly expressed in the post above yours that he feels that atkins.com is very biased an any information there is "tainted".

most people don't know how to process information. they rely primarily on what they consider to be "good" sources of information and then mimic whatever is given by this "good" source of information. it never occurs to them than often this so called "good" source of information is JUST as biased as the information sources they consider to be "biased".

Yo, paperclipgod.

try and understand concepts and quit just quoting snippets. often times there is a CONTEXT beyond a single snippet that can shed a COMPLETELY different light on the "snippet".

Atkins is NOT about completely eliminating carbs. on the Atkins diet, you try to Eliminate ALMOST all carbs from you diet for the first 2 weeks, after that you gradually increase your carb intake untill you see yourself gaining weight again, at which point you cut back (btw, this is very simplified atkins but it's to the best of my understanding).

also, consider that most of the research done on the impact of Fat on heart diseases started with the PREMISE that fat was the problem.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Wingznut
PaperclipGod, you are just plain mistaken on those two points. There really is no two ways about it.

The Atkins plan NEVER calls for "removing carbs completely", and in your second point you have ketosis confused with ketoacidosis. If you'd like to understand more about the plan, stop by you local bookstore or library and read the first couple of chapters of the book, or visit Atkins.com.

wingznut, paperclipgod clearly expressed in the post above yours that he feels that atkins.com is very biased an any information there is "tainted".

most people don't know how to process information. they rely primarily on what they consider to be "good" sources of information and then mimic whatever is given by this "good" source of information. it never occurs to them than often this so called "good" source of information is JUST as biased as the information sources they consider to be "biased".

I hear what you are saying, PlatinumGold. It's just obvious that PaperclipGod doesn't understand even the basics of the plan... And what better source to start with, than the plan itself? I can understand why he wouldn't necessarily take Atkins.com's word on many subjects, but the two specific points that he is mistaken about aren't really controversial, or open to debate. They are pretty cut and dry.

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
PaperclipGod, you are just plain mistaken on those two points. There really is no two ways about it.

The Atkins plan NEVER calls for "removing carbs completely", and in your second point you have ketosis confused with ketoacidosis. If you'd like to understand more about the plan, stop by you local bookstore or library and read the first couple of chapters of the book, or visit Atkins.com.

Where am i confusing ketosis with ketoacidosis...??

And if Atkins has nothing to do with ketosis, than im failing to see why everyone is so excited about it. A carb limited diet was pioneered before the 70's.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: Wingznut
PaperclipGod, you are just plain mistaken on those two points. There really is no two ways about it.

The Atkins plan NEVER calls for "removing carbs completely", and in your second point you have ketosis confused with ketoacidosis. If you'd like to understand more about the plan, stop by you local bookstore or library and read the first couple of chapters of the book, or visit Atkins.com.

Where am i confusing ketosis with ketoacidosis...??

And if Atkins has nothing to do with ketosis, than im failing to see why everyone is so excited about it. A carb limited diet was pioneered before the 70's.

Of course Atkins has to do with ketosis... But I presume you are making the mistake about the terminology (ketosis/ketoacidosis) because you have the effects mixed up. Ketosis does not cause kidney damage, ketoacidosis can be dangerous for your kidneys.

If you have reliable data that says otherwise I'd love to hear/see it, as I certainly have no intentions of harming my internal organs.

 

[ryzmah]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: Wingznut
PaperclipGod, you are just plain mistaken on those two points. There really is no two ways about it.

The Atkins plan NEVER calls for "removing carbs completely", and in your second point you have ketosis confused with ketoacidosis. If you'd like to understand more about the plan, stop by you local bookstore or library and read the first couple of chapters of the book, or visit Atkins.com.

Where am i confusing ketosis with ketoacidosis...??

And if Atkins has nothing to do with ketosis, than im failing to see why everyone is so excited about it. A carb limited diet was pioneered before the 70's.

Of course Atkins has to do with ketosis... But I presume you are making the mistake about the terminology (ketosis/ketoacidosis) because you have the effects mixed up. Ketosis does not cause kidney damage, ketoacidosis can be dangerous for your kidneys.

If you have reliable data that says otherwise I'd love to hear/see it, as I certainly have no intentions of harming my internal organs.

What is your source of info about ketoacidosis? According to WebMD, ketoacidosis is just the name for acidosis caused by acute ketosis.

 

[Saulbadguy]

Well..time to throw my 2 cents in here. I've been looking around WebMD.com for about half an hour now, and I can't even find Ketosis and Ketoacidosis in the same article, let alone the same sentence. Too much protein can cause kidney problems, or so i've been told, but i'm not sure. I have had no signs of kidney problems, according to WebMD, and I don't consume that much more protein than I did before I started the diet.

Paperclipgod does not seem to know what he is talking about, at least about the Atkins nutritional approach. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but all of his little comments have had no facts to back them up. All I know is, this diet has worked for me where others have not.

 

[hans007]

hmmm


i eat tons of carbs, meat, gallons of soda, and vegatables.


according to the atkins diet i should be turning really really fat. now i work out like 4 or 5 times a week. you have to WORK, to not be fat. or to be healthy.


too bad most poeple are lazy. quick fixes are ruining our country. in government, in diet, in everything.

 

[ryzmah]

Here's a cut and paste of the definitions I found (dictionary.com for ketosis; webmd under a glossary of diabetic terms for ketoacidosis, which is what ketoacidosis is usually associated with). There were also stated risks to ketosis in the first article you find when you search the term ketosis, but they didn't link to any journal studies so I didn't mention them.



Ketosis
A pathological increase in the production of ketone bodies.
An abnormal increase of ketone bodies in the blood as in diabetes mellitus.


Ketoacidosis
?A condition of the body in which there is not enough insulin. Free fatty acids are released from fat cells and produce ketones in the liver. These ketones or acids result in an imbalance of the blood (acidosis). In the more acute state, the result is ketoacidosis. Large amounts of sugar and ketones are found in urine, electrolytes are imbalanced, and dehydration is present. The onset is usually slow. The condition leads to loss of appetite, abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting, rapid and deep respiration, and coma. Death may occur.


If that definition of ketoacidosis is correct, it sounds like excess ketones (from being in a ketotic state) can cause acidosis and would eventually lead to ketoacidosis unless you had some method to correct the ph imbalance forming in the blood.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: hans007
hmmm

i eat tons of carbs, meat, gallons of soda, and vegatables.

according to the atkins diet i should be turning really really fat. now i work out like 4 or 5 times a week. you have to WORK, to not be fat. or to be healthy.

too bad most poeple are lazy. quick fixes are ruining our country. in government, in diet, in everything.

Everyone is different. I've ALWAYS eaten less than my peers, and never been less active. Yet I gain weight easily. Like I said, everyone has different metabolisms.

I hope you aren't implying that Atkins is a "quick fix" or only for the "lazy"... Because it couldn't be less true.