Why doesn't anyone come close to apple as far as design?

[Arkaign]

Zune was definitely better than iPod for music, but the apps were suck/nonexistent. Of course now single-purpose Mp3 players are laughably obsolete.

 

[halik]

Zune was definitely better than iPod for music, but the apps were suck/nonexistent. Of course now single-purpose Mp3 players are laughably obsolete.

Err how was it better?

 

[Sureshot324]

Samsung 9 series:

http://samsung9series.com/samsung-9-series-news/samsung-9-series-notebook-announced-at-ces-2011.html

 

[Broheim]

Remember that Apple's so called amazing design has only really poped up in the last 4 or 5 years. Prior to that they were churning out crap like the original imac, its horrible mouse:

and the iBook posted eariler

So now the question is, have there been stylish, well designed products before apple and post apple?
I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

Laptops:
The macbooks were released in 2006. Prior to that, IIRC Apple's laptops consisted of the iBooks (see above).

-snip-

the clamshell 1st gen iBook G3 is from 1999...

this 2nd gen iBook G3 is from 2001

this PowerMac G4 is also from 2001

all the colorful plastic macs are from the late 90's (back then they looked good), after 2000 apple went with the current trend of minimalism.

 

[Ghiddy]

Why do computer products need to be a piece of art?



I've owned a W3j notebook for the past few years - it's pretty nicely designed. The V series and W series from years past were well-made and good looking.

You tell us? I'm assuming you believe that since the OP never made this claim.

 

[Zebo]

The Thermaltake Level 10 PC case is pretty sexy and doesn't copy Apple. It's also $850, so barring insanity not many people will opt for it. And I very much like the look of my Dell XPS 8300.

That's hideous and massive, looks like something you'd find on a deck of a aircraft carrier.

Some of the li lians and silverstones are decent otherwise PC cases look like ass or plain boxes.

Here is mt fav PC case of all time but coolermaster has gone downhill since.

 

[Kanalua]

Who cares?

 

[Minjin]

If you got rid of the 2 buttons on the front, it's basically an exact copy of an iPod. And I'm sure the 2 buttons are only there because they can't copy the wheel.

Why would anyone want a wheel? Our thumb isn't made for going around in circles. Up and down it does great, which is what the Zune uses. Notice which gestures we do today on our mobile touch screen devices. We swipe left and right, exactly as you do on the Zune. We don't sit there and do stupid circle motions.

For larger devices, a wheel makes sense because you use your index finger (in an indent) or several fingers. Hence the jog wheel when editing video, which is almost certainly where they stole it from.

 

[Ichinisan]

That basic design has been around for a while. I have always HATED it.

 

[wantedSpidy]

wow the apple hate is unbearable.

Fact is Apple is the only computer manufacturer that cares about form/design/looks. The problem with pricing is simply because all the other FCKIN companies don't even want to compete in that space. Any company that has any sort of monopoly in the market is going to take full advantage with the pricing thats exactly what apple is doing.

Apple introduced the aluminium unibody casing in 2006 (which is a superior case - helps with heat dissipation, and gives the laptop a much sturdier frame). NONE of the competitors have introduced anything similar, or have done so more than 2-3 years after apple.

Yes apple products are overpriced, but from an accounting standpoint they are worth more than windows laptops. The depreciation of apple products is so slow, that from a 'renting a laptop for 3 yrs' standpoint (which is what most ppl do, get a new laptop in 3 yrs) I would argue the price difference between a mbp and a windows laptop is minimal. At least this will be the case for apple's hottest selling products like the 13" mbp, ipad, iphone etc.

 

[halik]

That's hideous and massive, looks like something you'd find on a deck of a aircraft carrier.

Some of the li lians and silverstones are decent otherwise PC cases look like ass or plain boxes.

Here is mt fav PC case of all time but coolermaster has gone downhill since.

That looks terrible

 

[corwin]

wow the apple hate is unbearable.

Fact is Apple is the only computer manufacturer that cares about form/design/looks. The problem with pricing is simply because all the other FCKIN companies don't even want to compete in that space. Any company that has any sort of monopoly in the market is going to take full advantage with the pricing thats exactly what apple is doing.

Apple introduced the aluminium unibody casing in 2006 (which is a superior case - helps with heat dissipation, and gives the laptop a much sturdier frame). NONE of the competitors have introduced anything similar, or have done so more than 2-3 years after apple.

Yes apple products are overpriced, but from an accounting standpoint they are worth more than windows laptops. The depreciation of apple products is so slow, that from a 'renting a laptop for 3 yrs' standpoint (which is what most ppl do, get a new laptop in 3 yrs) I would argue the price difference between a mbp and a windows laptop is minimal. At least this will be the case for apple's hottest selling products like the 13" mbp, ipad, iphone etc.

Haha...other companies don't want to compete on looks or 90%+ of consumers are happy with the looks of most laptop makers? Personally I hate the look of Apple products with the sole exception of the Air...and I don't know where you got your accounting degree but your math is seriously off, no matter how little an Apple product depreciates in 3 years buying a new Windows laptop every 3 years with no resale for the old one will definitely be way less...

 

[coldmeat]

Why would anyone want a wheel? Our thumb isn't made for going around in circles. Up and down it does great, which is what the Zune uses. Notice which gestures we do today on our mobile touch screen devices. We swipe left and right, exactly as you do on the Zune. We don't sit there and do stupid circle motions.

For larger devices, a wheel makes sense because you use your index finger (in an indent) or several fingers. Hence the jog wheel when editing video, which is almost certainly where they stole it from.

Lol that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Try harder.

If your thumb can't move in a circle to use the iPod wheel, you should see a doctor.

 

[JimmiG]

It's not good design so much as amazing marketing. Apple basically decides what's trendy and hip. Other companies have no choice but to imitate. The reason lots of PC manufacturers are coming out with aluminum unibody laptops now isn't because they can't come up with great original designs of their own. It's because consumers don't want original designs. They *want* shiny, boxy unibody aluminum Apple-clones.

Also, many of Apples designs are flawed "form over function" designs.. This is just the latest of a number of design flaws:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._macbook_bottom_case_replacement_program.html

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

It's not good design so much as amazing marketing. Apple basically decides what's trendy and hip. Other companies have no choice but to imitate. The reason lots of PC manufacturers are coming out with aluminum unibody laptops now isn't because they can't come up with great original designs of their own. It's because consumers don't want original designs. They *want* shiny, boxy unibody aluminum Apple-clones.

Also, many of Apples designs are flawed "form over function" designs.. This is just the latest of a number of design flaws:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._macbook_bottom_case_replacement_program.html

This argument about amazing marketing can only take a person or company so far. If it was just amazing marketing than consumers would obviously see something wrong with the design when they get it.

PC manufacturers can try to innovate, but they really aren't in the right place to do that.

 

[BeauJangles]

It's not good design so much as amazing marketing. Apple basically decides what's trendy and hip. Other companies have no choice but to imitate. The reason lots of PC manufacturers are coming out with aluminum unibody laptops now isn't because they can't come up with great original designs of their own. It's because consumers don't want original designs. They *want* shiny, boxy unibody aluminum Apple-clones.

Economics plays a large role in Apple's ability to innovate. Apple is the only game in town when it comes to getting an Apple laptop. They can afford to charge a premium for their products and, because of that, they can do things like go out and have custom-built motherboards, chipsets, and whatever else they need to help preserve their design principles.

PC manufacturers don't have the luxury of charging premiums (unless you're Sony) and are therefore constricted much more by the actual cost of these customizations.

Apple is simply ahead of the curve a lot of the time. They clearly spend a lot of their resources on developing new products and new prototypes and are always looking for ways to improve their products, something that I think is ingrained in their corporate culture. Combine those factors with their ability to unite hardware and software in a way no other company can do, and you can see why they are usually ahead of everyone else.

Also, many of Apples designs are flawed "form over function" designs.. This is just the latest of a number of design flaws:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._macbook_bottom_case_replacement_program.html

I'm not a huge fan of their OS, but Apple hardware is nice. Every company has recalls for defective parts, not just Apple.

 

[wantedSpidy]

and I don't know where you got your accounting degree but your math is seriously off, no matter how little an Apple product depreciates in 3 years buying a new Windows laptop every 3 years with no resale for the old one will definitely be way less...

I never said I had an accounting degree. I bought a C2D unibody 13" mbp in 2008 with college discount, and free ipod touch (so around $980). Sold it 2 years later for $850. For a net $130 fee for using the laptop for 2 years. This is not possible with windows laptops, because few windows laptops are 'premium' enough to have a respectable resale value.

Haha...other companies don't want to compete on looks or 90%+ of consumers are happy with the looks of most laptop makers? Personally I hate the look of Apple products with the sole exception of the Air...

Every single customer cares about the design of their laptops. Mind you there is a difference between 'design' and 'looks'. As for your statement that 90% of the customers are happy with the looks of most laptop makers, we cannot verify that simply because a lot of customers suppress their design needs due to price constraints. There obviously is the price contention, and how much people are willing to pay for design vs. utility (and also if they like the design at all). My point is that windows laptop makers were content in fighting over their large windows laptop market. The only reason they all had similar price points and design was because they didn't consider apple to be their rivals. As apple's pricing reduces, the likes of HP/DELL/ACER are going to see their share in the laptop market drop drastically, only after which they will start caring about design etc.

Also its funny how in this space (6-7 years back) there used to be Apple fan boys who weren't willing to accept that the opposition product was better, and now the I-hate-apple fanboys are the stubborn ones.

 

[wantedSpidy]

Well that's all a matter of opinion really. One might say that the iPad 1 and iPad 2 are "not even close", which can either be true or false depending on how one looks at it.

The fact is that mfg's have been making very thin/light notebooks for ages, and a lot of it is reliant on tech that gets better every year. There's nothing extremely original about any of the Macbooks, they have just gotten quite good (best in the business overall I would have to say). But it's evolution, not revolution, imho. Everything is somewhat of a derivitive at this point. Even the iPad is basically a super-improved version of the ancient failed Apple Newton. Saying that the Macbook air is completely original ignores common sense. It's a notebook. It's thin. It's light. It has good design qualities, other than some tradeoffs (non-removable battery, soldered-on non-upgradable memory). It's fairly priced compared to loosely comparable PC notebooks of the thin/light genre.

This is a good post.

My complaint about the windows laptop manufacturers is that they are not contributing enough to the 'evolution' process now. As a result, apple's products are still priced with a premium because they are trend setters.

What happened to plug 'n' play graphic cards? Stuff that was talked about 4-5 years back, and we aren't anywhere close. If they start making this a two horse race, the consumers (us) will benefit.

 

[KeithTalent]

I'm not really a fan of their designs, but maybe it's because you see so much of it around that everything they do looks plain and boring. I like the look of some of the Android stuff out there and if I ever move off Blackberry, I will go Android for sure.

KT

 

[Gooberlx2]

Err how was it better?

Regarding iPod Classic vs Zune 80/120: I felt the squircle worked really well for navigation, and the UI was well suited for it...but those are really subjective qualities. I know I remember reading that the zune's audio quality was supposed to be superior, but I doubt it was substantial.

IMO, they're pretty comparable. I don't think one was inherently better than the other. Whichever is better for a person probably more depends on their software preference.

At present, the iPod classic is actually inherently better than the Zune 80/120, since latter has been discontinued IIRC.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I've felt that the Lenovo U260 was a sexy piece of kit. Admittedly there are a few sniggling shortcomings, but assuming Lenovo keeps the design and refreshes the line, it should be a very, very strong line that competes - in and some cases (like price) surpasses - the products offered by the half-eaten fruit company.

 

[JimmiG]

This argument about amazing marketing can only take a person or company so far. If it was just amazing marketing than consumers would obviously see something wrong with the design when they get it.

PC manufacturers can try to innovate, but they really aren't in the right place to do that.

The flaws are there, but many choose not to see them. The iPhone4 has got the antenna issue and the glass back-panel that cracks easily. There's the bottom case replacement program for laptops, issues with discolored screens, the white iPhone4 that took forever to fix and release, the soldered batteries, virtually zero upgradeability etc. etc. Not saying they're crappy designs, just that there are issues as with any other laptop/phone. They're not the "perfect" designs some make them out to be. Because of the cult following, Apple gets defended every time a flaw is discovered. It would take a lot to make them admit a design flaw.

Economics plays a large role in Apple's ability to innovate. Apple is the only game in town when it comes to getting an Apple laptop. They can afford to charge a premium for their products and, because of that, they can do things like go out and have custom-built motherboards, chipsets, and whatever else they need to help preserve their design principles.

PC manufacturers don't have the luxury of charging premiums (unless you're Sony) and are therefore constricted much more by the actual cost of these customizations.

Apple is simply ahead of the curve a lot of the time. They clearly spend a lot of their resources on developing new products and new prototypes and are always looking for ways to improve their products, something that I think is ingrained in their corporate culture. Combine those factors with their ability to unite hardware and software in a way no other company can do, and you can see why they are usually ahead of everyone else.



I'm not a huge fan of their OS, but Apple hardware is nice. Every company has recalls for defective parts, not just Apple.

Obviously, you can't compare a $399 Acer laptop to a MacBook Pro, but some PC manufacturers do have "premium" models that challenge Apple in terms of design.

The key word is "design principles". Functionally, Apple is not ahead of the curve. If anything, they are behind. One reason might be that it takes longer to get those custom-designed components done for a new architecture or technology. Apple users are stuck with previous-gen GPUs, CPUs and chipsets for longer, but when they finally get access to the latest Intel CPU that PC users have been able to buy for the last 6-12 months, it's suddenly "revolutionary" and "magical".

 

[dennilfloss]

wow the apple hate is unbearable.

So... when does Apple buy Bose? You know... two peas in a pod...

http://www.frugaldreamer.com/?p=1739

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

The flaws are there, but many choose not to see them. The iPhone4 has got the antenna issue and the glass back-panel that cracks easily. There's the bottom case replacement program for laptops, issues with discolored screens, the white iPhone4 that took forever to fix and release, the soldered batteries, virtually zero upgradeability etc. etc. Not saying they're crappy designs, just that there are issues as with any other laptop/phone. They're not the "perfect" designs some make them out to be. Because of the cult following, Apple gets defended every time a flaw is discovered. It would take a lot to make them admit a design flaw.

Because of the cult following, Apple gets attacked every time a flaw which can happen to any other company.

Obviously, you can't compare a $399 Acer laptop to a MacBook Pro, but some PC manufacturers do have "premium" models that challenge Apple in terms of design.

The key word is "design principles". Functionally, Apple is not ahead of the curve. If anything, they are behind. One reason might be that it takes longer to get those custom-designed components done for a new architecture or technology. Apple users are stuck with previous-gen GPUs, CPUs and chipsets for longer, but when they finally get access to the latest Intel CPU that PC users have been able to buy for the last 6-12 months, it's suddenly "revolutionary" and "magical".

Apple doesn't compromise. What you're talking about is when the Macbook's had C2D CPUs while having a really good GPU. They couldn't have both because the higher end CPUs were not compatible with the GPUs that Apple wanted to put in. All in all, it's not all about specs.

 

[Zen0]

I've felt that the Lenovo U260 was a sexy piece of kit. Admittedly there are a few sniggling shortcomings, but assuming Lenovo keeps the design and refreshes the line, it should be a very, very strong line that competes - in and some cases (like price) surpasses - the products offered by the half-eaten fruit company.

THAT plastic POS? Hilarious.