Why are teachers always complaining about being low paid?

[Auryg]

I'd be willing to have my taxes raised up to pay teachers more if teachers could actually get fired for being a bad teacher =/

Once you're tenured, you're set. It's rediculous. No other profession is like that, and teaching should be the last profession to be like that. If you do a bad job, maybe even a mediocre job, you should be fired.

Either that or make the amount of pay correlate with how good the teaching is-but I have no idea how that could even be done, and I doubt it could be.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: ebaycj
I'm 4 years out of college and I make more than that. Both myself and my parents are middle-upper middle class. Not worrying about bills, but not loaded either.


Around here, you could barely get a crappy apartment making 42k / year.

I agree that 42K doesn't get you anywhere in Chicago land area, but what do you do to make 95K+ after just 4 years?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: ebaycj
You have a seriously distorted picture of middle america.

Around here, you could barely get a crappy apartment making 42k / year.

Sounds like you have a distorted picture of middle America. $42,000 per year is about $2800 per month after taxes. If you live somewhere that $2800 will "barely get a crappy apartment", then you aren't living anywhere that could be considered average for the US.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: RaistlinZ
You're thinking that they work from 8am-3pm and that's it. Wrong. They put in hours outside of the classroom everyday getting ready for the next days lessons. Not to mention grading tests, reports, quizzes, etc once they get home.

And I doubt most teachers sit on their assess all summer either. They're probably either teaching a summer course or two, or taking classes and refresher courses themselves. Considering the hours they put in outside of the classroom and the amount of crap they have to put up with, $42,000/yr is nothing IMO.

I don't think you know many teachers very well, or you know pretty inefficient teachers. After 1-2 years, a majority of teachers have their lesson plans created which they will use for the next 10-15 years (obviously this can vary based on the volatility of subject matter and social trends). Most teachers also do not spend hours every night at home grading assignments. Most schools have teachers actually teaching during 50-80% of the day. During the time that students aren't being directly taught or supervised (ex. during in class written assignments, films, resource classes, lunch, planning period, study hall, etc.), most teachers get their grading done. My SO and her mother are both special ed teachers, one of the most demanding specialties in terms of individualized lesson plans and IUPs, and they rarely have work to bring home. I, on the other hand, as a developer work until 7pm each evening and routinely put in 12 hour days when preparing for a deadline.

A majority of teachers don't sit on their asses all summer. They clean, garden, play with their kids, etc. If they do choose to teach a summer course or two, they are being paid for it. I go to technical training several times a year - I think teachers can handle their continuing education courses.

$42K a year at 7 hours a day for 9 months of the year is equal to around $32 an hour. I feel so horrible for teachers.

You're either ignorant, or totally blind. NO FULL-TIME school teacher only works 7 hours per day. MOST put in 7-9 at school, PLUS 4 or more at home working on the little stuff they don't get paid for...grading papers, lesson plans, ect. MAYBE some have lesson plans they use from year to year, but subject matter (escept the hard sciences) changes from year to year, and new textbooks come out fairly frequently, so lesson plans have to be changed to accomodate those changes as well. Gone are the days when the world was static, when a school could use the same geography or history books for many years in a row. Hell, even math and science books change fairly frequently to keep up with changes in the world. (remember, .999 =! 1.000)

You're either an idiot or you didn't read my entire post. If the teachers you know are putting in 4 hours a day at home, every day, they don't know what the hell they're doing.

EDIT: Do you actually know any teachers, or are you just making up crap for arguments sake, like most ATOTers?

BoomerD and joshsquall, I think the difference in your experiences with the amount of time teachers have to spend working after the school day ends has to do with Special Education teacher vs. Regular Education teacher. Joshsquall said that the two teachers he was referring to are both Special Education teachers, and yes, it is likely that they spend much less time working after school on things like tests, quizzes, grading papers, etc. because of inclusion. Inclusion means that all Special Education students except the most severely mentally or physically challenged, or the most non-functional, are all taught in the regular classroom and not in separate classes. The IEPs that Special Education teachers have to contend with are a real pain, but they have much much less of what most people think of as regular teaching paperwork because most of that is handled by the regular classroom teachers, and because the Special Education teacher has so many fewer students. No knock against Special Education teachers, I don't think I could handle some of the things they have to do during the school day, but they do tend to have much less paperwork to deal with than a regular education teacher on a day to day basis.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Teachers are fairly paid!

School starts at 8:10 am and lets out at 2:30pm every day except for Wednesday when it is a short day and kids are let out at 1:30pm.

Teachers in HS and Junior High alos get 1-2 periods a day when they are not teaching. They can grade papers then.

Lesson plans are difficult the first year, after that they get trmendously easier as you have a base plan and just rework a few things. After 5yrs in the same grade your lesson plan is 98% set.

Teachers ask parents for classroom help and get volunteers to grade papers, make photocopies, read one on one, and other things parents can do.

Vacation time! Teachers get 2-weeks over Xmas, 1 week for winter break in Febraury and another week for Spring break. The get the day off for Veterans day, Columbus Day, Presidents Day, MLK Day. All holidays my job does not give me.


If teachers want to get paid more than they should remove themselves from their damn Union and become free-agents. The vast majority of education dollars are spent on the beauracy of education and not onthe schools or the teachers.

Maybe where you live, but it's very different other places.

Required to show up minimum of 30 minutes early here, and an hour early is suggested, so 7-730. Gets out 230 every day, but required to stay till 3 for job duties, and longer with extracurriculars.

1 planning period a day, so 55 minutes open. 30 students x 5-6 classes = 150-180 pieces of homework. For 3 page papers (very common in history) that's 450-540 pages to read and critique. If you can do that in 55 minutes you're a better man than I.

If you work from a static lesson plan you're not a good teacher. Sure your basics are covered, but new information is constantly coming available, altering your information. Current events require different points of interest and angles. Individual student strengths and interests require entirely different methods. Sure it gets easier, but it still requires very real work to be effective.

Classroom participation by parents and volunteers in this state is at about 3 days per month. That means the other 19ish days every month there is no help at all. In my 5 years of high school I only saw 1 volunteer ever, and they were only around 1 day a week. Furthermore any teacher that allows an uneducated person to grade papers (other than a scantron on occasion or something) is not fit to teach.

Bankers get the same amount of vacation days (roughly). So do government employees. As long as you're equally bothered by them then it's fine. Personally I can't stand people that want others to work more. Americans work more than any other civilized country and we suffer greatly for it. We need more time off, not more time at work.

I'd be fine with no union as long as there's a good method of fighting all the crap out there that comes after teachers. Workers (in EVERY field) need some kind of bodyguard against the corruption of business, otherwise we're back to pre-20th century employment (in other words, robber barons).

 

[Accipiter22]

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z

Originally posted by: Accipiter22

Originally posted by: Alone
Not all teachers make the same.

most here in Massachusetts make that to start...I dunno why they bitch so much.

Not the case in Western MA

I live in western MA....I have friends that just started around the 40k range...what are the people you know making?

 

[fustercluck]

Wow. That is pretty dang good. I could be a 2nd grade teacher and make 42k for 9 months? Or is it based on what grade you teach?

My teachers always just looked in the back of books for answers, they never knew anything. I'd say Teachers are very fairly paid, even for all the crap they have to put up with.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Cabages
Teachers put up with a lot of sh!t.

I would say the shyt they put up with is probably LESS than what your average office worker has to put up with....taking shyt from your boss and coworkers and corporate.....damn that.

I don't think anybody is saying teachers are overpaid, which is what some of you more hysterical posters are claiming, we're just, rightfully, wondering why we need to be reinformed incessently that teachers are underpaid.

FWIW, I was a systems admin for almost two years before I made this much money. And I was blessed to find an admin job during the tech bubble burst in 2001. Granted I'm making quite a bit more now, but it's because I'm at an excellent company and spend a lot of my own time developing my skills and knowledge......not everybody ends up at one like mine.

 

[alkemyst]

teachers may work an extended day...however most salaried americans are working 8+ hours a day now. Some of the highest paid jobs you won't keep long without putting a full 12 hours a day in.

Workers in the private sector also don't get 'planning days'. Teachers are adequately paid. For the most part school up until college is more about teaching socialization and monitoring that rather than learning. The average things one learns prior to college, most should be able to learn with decent parents and some self study each day.

The way salaries can be weighed is supply and demand. Obviously there is enough people in the work force wanting to be teachers at each 'price point'.

We do need more good teachers though, like many employees today; many are just out for the paycheck every two weeks and could give a crap about the stuff they are responsible for to get it.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: ebaycj
You have a seriously distorted picture of middle america.

Around here, you could barely get a crappy apartment making 42k / year.

Sounds like you have a distorted picture of middle America. $42,000 per year is about $2800 per month after taxes. If you live somewhere that $2800 will "barely get a crappy apartment", then you aren't living anywhere that could be considered average for the US.

ebaycj seems to have distorted views on a lot of things. I had thought he was a 12-14 year old that thought he knew it all, but now I see he is out of college for 4 years.

only thing I can think of is if true, his upper class parents provided everything for him and he just thinks that is normal.

He couldn't think of checking the IRS site for what an average/median american makes nor the average/median montly housing cost.

It's like the idiots that talk about the Bay area or NYC based what salaries should be based on the costs of housing in those areas. Problem is commuting has existed for decades now because just because you work somewhere doesn't mean you get to live there.

I don't know if I could survive on $42k...I made that without a degree about 15 or so years ago now. I do know people do survive on much less though...it's about quality of life vs just getting by for me.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Adaman
Wow. That is pretty dang good. I could be a 2nd grade teacher and make 42k for 9 months? Or is it based on what grade you teach?

My teachers always just looked in the back of books for answers, they never knew anything. I'd say Teachers are very fairly paid, even for all the crap they have to put up with.

Elementary teachers make more than high school teachers (at least here). It also varies by amount of education you hold and your area.

 

[aphex]

One add't thing to consider is how small the yearly increases are for teachers... So not only to they start fairly low in many places, but even after working for 15-20 years, their pay hasn't gone up all that much...

http://www.payscale.com/resear...ry/by_Years_Experience

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! 😕

On a 12 month basis that equals 56,000. That is not alot of money for someone who has one of the most important jobs, educationg our future, in our country.

You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

If you do not care about your children's education offer pay that does not allow teachers to own a home, raise kids, etc without working a second job.

 

[TehMac]

How about getting rid of all the stupid beaucrats and administrators? My school has frickin 8 counselors, 5 vice Principals, and various other smaller administrators who just sit on their ass. If we cut away some of the useless fat away from the school, we could give more muscle to the teachers--in terms of money and disciplinary actions.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! 😕

On a 12 month basis that equals 56,000. That is not alot of money for someone who has one of the most important jobs, educationg our future, in our country.

You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

If you do not care about your children's education offer pay that does not allow teachers to own a home, raise kids, etc without working a second job.

Absolutely. Right now we have people that have a ?calling? to be teachers, which is fine. However, in order to make it worth while to go through the required school/training we should pay a high premium for the people who teach our children. Teachers should be like most other profesionals. With the pay rate high enough to attract more people to teaching a teacher is constantly motivated to do a good/better job educating our children.

Some people have a ?calling? to be doctors but I don't want my doctor worrying about his second job before he opens me up. Instead, he is motivated to continually do a good/better job because he will make substantially more money in the long run.


Personally, I think teachers should start out at 75K a year and have the potential to get to 150K a year as a teacher. On the other hand, I also want administrators to be able to fire a poorly performing teacher and be able to replace a teacher if a much better candidate is available for the position.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! 😕

On a 12 month basis that equals 56,000. That is not alot of money for someone who has one of the most important jobs, educationg our future, in our country.

You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

If you do not care about your children's education offer pay that does not allow teachers to own a home, raise kids, etc without working a second job.

Absolutely. Right now we have people that have a ?calling? to be teachers, which is fine. However, in order to make it worth while to go through the required school/training we should pay a high premium for the people who teach our children. Teachers should be like most other profesionals. With the pay rate high enough to attract more people to teaching a teacher is constantly motivated to do a good/better job educating our children.

Some people have a ?calling? to be doctors but I don't want my doctor worrying about his second job before he opens me up. Instead, he is motivated to continually do a good/better job because he will make substantially more money in the long run.


Personally, I think teachers should start out at 75K a year and have the potential to get to 150K a year as a teacher. On the other hand, I also want administrators to be able to fire a poorly performing teacher and be able to replace a teacher if a much better candidate is available for the position.

starting at 75k is pretty steep. i'd say 50-60k is pretty solid (starting) with competitive pay raises, obviously.

the other thing is you'd have to find a better revenue source than property taxes, otherwise people would most likely get very pissed.

 

[BoomerD]

It strikes me as odd that you folks who may make good money working in IT have a problem with teachers making similarly good wages, even though their work is by far, much harder than yours. Teaching a group of kids, (many of whom don't want to be there in the first place) can't be easy. The teacher is responsible for the content of the classes, responsible for getting the ideas or concepts across, and responsible (to parents and administration) when the students fail to learn. Plus, the students who may not want to be there, tend to be unruly, which takes the attention away from the teacher, and focuses on their bad behavior. Add gang problems to the mix, and being a teacher becomes less and less of a desirable job, unless they are really in it for the kids. Look at the problems faced in inner-city schools...Those teachers DEFINITELY don't get paid enough to deal with the drug-dealing thugs that are in their classrooms.
Teachers just don't get paid enough in this country. We parents send our kids to school, expecting the teachers to educate them, baby-sit them, and care for them while we go to work. At home, far too many parents don't take time to get involved in our kids' education, then complain when Johnny can't read.
If we pay our teachers less, most will find other jobs, and pretty soon, the only ones who will work for the crappy wages are those who really are BAD teachers...

 

[johnjohn320]

They get VERY small stipends for classroom material...MUCH of it comes out of their own pockets.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dudeman007

Originally posted by: OVerLoRDI
42k isn't that much for the amount of crap you have to put up with from annoying kids. Especially if you are working in an inner city school with our wonderful youth.

Teachers do it for the kids....or else they wouldn't be teachers.

I tend to agree with that. The amount of education that they have to receive and the effort that they have to put into their job for what they get paid...

And if anyone thinks that a teacher works a simple 9 months worth of time (40 hours a week for 9 months) to get the 42k really needs to get their head out of the sand. Sure, there are exceptions to that (every teacher isn't going to bust their hump just as every employee of any other company isn't going to bust their hump), but most go well above the 40 per week.

Just how many of you are willing to get a Masters (in anything) and then look at a 42k per year job to start?

I find it ironic that many will pony up $60 to $100 per hour for a mechanic or lawyer, but fuss over $22 per hour for someone to groom your children.

My wife works as a teacher's aid and she knows full well what those people go through. They are worth every penny (with very few exceptions).

The mechanic or Lawyer you're paying $100+ an hour is looking after your car or paperwork for that hour only. A teacher is looking after your kid and 25 others at the same time. If they were only looking after your kid then you would have an argument.

If the teachers don't like like they pay and the rules, they should get different jobs.

Just about everyone complains about being underpaid and overworked.

 

[Regs]

You can always paint nails. They make around 800 dollars a week with tips.

Yeah I would complain im overworked and underpaid. Every company wants you to do more with less. Look at Wal-Mart...they make them huddle into a group before the store opens and do the company chant.... I would kill myself for the 12/hr they are making (with unpaid OT, and hardly any breaks).

I would consider myself lucky getting 42k to start with little to no education. If you want to make it big in this country you're going to have to be not only educated but driven, energetic, and clever.

Teachers should love to teach children no matter how much they get paid. If they are there just for the money then they should get into a new line of work because not only are they hurting themselves but they are hurting your kids. Maybe they should volunteer some of their time by helping the handicap 5 days a week out of their busy ... busy.. work schedule?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! 😕

Texas is one of the highest paying states in the country, as far as teachers are concerned. My mother teaches in Louisiana, with a Master's Degree and 20 years experience. She makes 34K/yr.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! 😕

On a 12 month basis that equals 56,000. That is not alot of money for someone who has one of the most important jobs, educationg our future, in our country.

You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

If you do not care about your children's education offer pay that does not allow teachers to own a home, raise kids, etc without working a second job.

Absolutely. Right now we have people that have a ?calling? to be teachers, which is fine. However, in order to make it worth while to go through the required school/training we should pay a high premium for the people who teach our children. Teachers should be like most other professionals. With the pay rate high enough to attract more people to teaching a teacher is constantly motivated to do a good/better job educating our children.

Some people have a ?calling? to be doctors but I don't want my doctor worrying about his second job before he opens me up. Instead, he is motivated to continually do a good/better job because he will make substantially more money in the long run.


Personally, I think teachers should start out at 75K a year and have the potential to get to 150K a year as a teacher. On the other hand, I also want administrators to be able to fire a poorly performing teacher and be able to replace a teacher if a much better candidate is available for the position.

My supply chain prof from undergrad/grad school (a full professor with a PhD) made about $125k a year. He does research (pumps out a few publications every year) and is an adviser to 3 PhD students, maybe more. No way should a teacher of high school make more then a REAL teacher.

I have no problem with grade school teachers and HS teachers starting out at $40k+ and topping out at $75k & benefits, IF there is a system to evaluate teachers and fire the incompetent.

 

[Sphexi]

My brother started out as a highschool teacher in Springfield, VT. He was making barely $30k a year to start, for the full school year, plus working their summer school program, so no summer break for him. He had to go to weekend training sometime, and was made head of the department (no raise) within 6 months because nobody else wanted it, and he had the least amount of time there.

After a few years their budget got slashed in half, so all of the new teachers (under 5 years) got canned, including my brother. He ended up moving to Virginia, making about 15-20k more per year, without having to pull extra duty. The school district down there even footed the bill for his graduate classes so he can work towards a Masters/PhD, since he eventually wants to work at a college/university somewhere in a history department.


So yeah, budgets range from area to area, and sometimes year to year. A lot of the schools out there that are giving away laptops to kids are going to have hard times ahead when those programs fail to produce results, and people demand the budgets get cut as a result. As it is now, teachers are responsible for making sure kids grow up with the knowledge necessary to run the country, so I have no problem with them getting raises whenever they feel they need them, as long as they can prove that they're doing the job.

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Well it takes a while to repay college loans for a good teacher.

It's got its perks... but man, it's got its sh1ts.

Fixed. 🙂 It looks like your English teacher was also underpaid. 😛

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

What a dumb thought. Yeah, I really want all the used car salesman to leave their lots and go become teachers because they can make six figures. Utter genius.

As I've said and every teacher has reiterated, teaching is a very hard yet very self-satisfying (that's not easy to find) job with pay that is better than average. I think things are fine the way they are.