Why are teachers always complaining about being low paid?

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LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,675
0
0
Fire all the goddamned school administrators. Counselors, superintendents, district board members, vice principals... they don't do sh!t. It is the teachers who teach the students, who make a difference. Now they are trying to make the teachers take pay cuts while the superintendent is sitting there reeling in a $200K salary.

Some of the most influential people I've come across in my life thus far have been high school teachers. They sparked my interest in some of the subjects I love most. Even though I'm double majoring in CS and Econ right now, I would definitely consider teaching in the future if it eventually pays better :(. Teachers really are very respected in our society.
 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
Most teacher jobs are actually paid year round here... So it would be $$$/12 not $$$/9. This is around here (From what I know). Also, $42K per year, is decent, however, it is not House, Car, Family, decent.
 

Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,463
17
81
Paid $42k for nine months, yes. Too bad a year is 12 months...

$42k is their yearly pay unless there is some other side job.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
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The cost of living is indeed increasing far more a year then the middle classes salary.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
The argument I always see when this topic comes up is "teachers work many hours after they leave the classroom." I'm just wondering, do those of you who work in other areas leave all your work in the office when you leave? A number of my friends, my parents, and others I know who work 9-5er's or the like still come home with extra things to do and continue working a bit while at home. I didn't realize people believe that teachers are the only one's that bring work home to do.
 

fierydemise

Platinum Member
Apr 16, 2005
2,056
2
81
Originally posted by: TheVrolok
The argument I always see when this topic comes up is "teachers work many hours after they leave the classroom." I'm just wondering, do those of you who work in other areas leave all your work in the office when you leave? A number of my friends, my parents, and others I know who work 9-5er's or the like still come home with extra things to do and continue working a bit while at home. I didn't realize people believe that teachers are the only one's that bring work home to do.
I realize that other professions have to bring work home too (as the son of a lawyer I know this firsthand), however what most of us are saying is that teachers work much more then while school is in session and I would guess that teachers do a lot more work at home then people in other professions. As I said earlier my precalc teacher said that she spends about 15 hours on each set of 70 unit tests and I can't imagine how much work English teachers do grading 2 or 3 periods of essays.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! :confused:

On a 12 month basis that equals 56,000. That is not alot of money for someone who has one of the most important jobs, educationg our future, in our country.

You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

If you do not care about your children's education offer pay that does not allow teachers to own a home, raise kids, etc without working a second job.

Do they get docked for every flunky that doesn't make it?

Teachers IMHO are sort of a tool. They teach a general plan, it's the student that rises above.

There are exceptions, but growing up I was really learning on my own rather than the stuff the teacher was talking about that I already knew. Then when the subject was more advanced, I still had to self-study to move forward often just showing up for the tests that allowed it.

Teachers should expect modest lives, if they want more enter the private sector and tutor if you have what it takes.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: BoomerD
It strikes me as odd that you folks who may make good money working in IT have a problem with teachers making similarly good wages, even though their work is by far, much harder than yours.

Can't base a job on that otherwise Joe Janitor would be the highest paid in the place.

Most in any profession are sort of on the edges...not really making a major contribution, but pulling their own weight.

Much of the reason some IT/IS people make what they do is because either their ideas or their ability to troubleshoot a problem and get the company back up and running can be measured in multiples of their salaries.

All jobs have their difficulties.

Those that are talking about how teachers have to deal with gangs and violence are trying to solve the problem by painting over it. What needs to happen is this parenting where 'whatever the kid wants to do is OK and anyone that gets in the way is bad' had to go away. Bring back Corporal Punishment and stop the tear jerking when Joe the Gangbanger gets expelled for carrying a gun into school. He doesn't deserve a second chance in a public school especially if his family is getting assistance from tax payers.
 

mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
Originally posted by: eos
Paid $42k for nine months, yes. Too bad a year is 12 months...

$42k is their yearly pay unless there is some other side job.

IMO, if you're already making a good salary like 42k, the 3 months off is worth more than whatever you could make extra.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: TehMac
How about getting rid of all the stupid beaucrats and administrators? My school has frickin 8 counselors, 5 vice Principals, and various other smaller administrators who just sit on their ass. If we cut away some of the useless fat away from the school, we could give more muscle to the teachers--in terms of money and disciplinary actions.

 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
1
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: TehMac
How about getting rid of all the stupid beaucrats and administrators? My school has frickin 8 counselors, 5 vice Principals, and various other smaller administrators who just sit on their ass. If we cut away some of the useless fat away from the school, we could give more muscle to the teachers--in terms of money and disciplinary actions.

What, someone didn't agree with you so you've decided to quote yourself?
 

powerup

Member
Dec 6, 2004
125
0
0
I am a teacher as well and I once saw this in the teachers lounge at my school.

Pay Teachers Like Babysitters

This is to everyone who thinks teachers are overpaid. It was taken from an editorial in a New Hampshire newspaper. Author unknown.

Consider this:

If I had my way, I'd pay these teachers myself. I'd pay them babysitting wages. I'd give them $3/hour out of my own pocket. And I'm only going to pay them for 5 hours, not coffee breaks. That would be $15/day. Each parent should pay $15/day for these teachers to babysit their child. Even if they have more than one child, it's still a lot cheaper than private day care.

Now, how many children do they teach everyday? Maybe 20? That's $15 times 20, equaling $300/day. But remember, they only work 180 days a year! I'm not going to pay them for all those vacations! So that's $300 x 180 = $54,000.

Wait. I know that you teachers will say, "What about those who have ten years experience and a masters degree?" Well, maybe (to be fair) they could get the minimum wage, and instead of just babysitting, they could read the kid a story. We could round that off to about $5/hour, times five hours, times 20 children. That's $500/day times 180 days. That's $90,000! Huh?

Wait a minute. Let's get a little perspective here. Babysitting wages are too good for these teachers. Did anyone see a good salary guide around here?

Need I say more?

Signed, An Intelligent Parent
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Think back to college and all the education majors you knew. They turned into teachers. Explain much?

I was on the side of the teachers until I read this and remembered. ;)
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
First off, 42K isn't a good salary IMO. I guess it would be alright if you had no debt, no kids and your house was paid off.

My wife is a university lecturer and makes just over 50. She works after dinner 4/5 nights a week when her classes are in session - sometimes until 10 or 11pm and later. Weekends are not free time either. When classes are in effect, all bets are off. She's the hardest working woman I have ever met and will be starting her PhD in January. I think when she comes back after that, they will be finally paying her what she is worth.
 

powerup

Member
Dec 6, 2004
125
0
0
Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Teachers are fairly paid!

School starts at 8:10 am and lets out at 2:30pm every day except for Wednesday when it is a short day and kids are let out at 1:30pm.

Teachers in HS and Junior High alos get 1-2 periods a day when they are not teaching. They can grade papers then.

Lesson plans are difficult the first year, after that they get trmendously easier as you have a base plan and just rework a few things. After 5yrs in the same grade your lesson plan is 98% set.

Teachers ask parents for classroom help and get volunteers to grade papers, make photocopies, read one on one, and other things parents can do.

Vacation time! Teachers get 2-weeks over Xmas, 1 week for winter break in Febraury and another week for Spring break. The get the day off for Veterans day, Columbus Day, Presidents Day, MLK Day. All holidays my job does not give me.


If teachers want to get paid more than they should remove themselves from their damn Union and become free-agents. The vast majority of education dollars are spent on the beauracy of education and not onthe schools or the teachers.
Where there are no unions for example Texas, salaries are a lot less and the benefits are terrible and very expensive. Also the cost of being a teacher never stops. Teachers must take and PAY for masters level classes throughout their career. This keeps the teacher up to date on practices but also takes away for the so called 3 months off in the summer. Teachers must also pay money to renew their license to teach every 5 years. As for having lesson plans set after a few years of teaching, then that is a crappy teacher. A good teacher updates and changes his/her lessons to improve upon the lesson as well as to keep up with the times. Also teachers get moved around and teach more than one subject, sometimes 5-6 a semester or even completely different subjects every year.
the Wednesday early release you speak of is professional development not free time for the teacher. Professional development also takes place after school and on weekends.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! :confused:

On a 12 month basis that equals 56,000. That is not alot of money for someone who has one of the most important jobs, educationg our future, in our country.

You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

If you do not care about your children's education offer pay that does not allow teachers to own a home, raise kids, etc without working a second job.

Do they get docked for every flunky that doesn't make it?

Teachers IMHO are sort of a tool. They teach a general plan, it's the student that rises above.

There are exceptions, but growing up I was really learning on my own rather than the stuff the teacher was talking about that I already knew. Then when the subject was more advanced, I still had to self-study to move forward often just showing up for the tests that allowed it.

Teachers should expect modest lives, if they want more enter the private sector and tutor if you have what it takes.

Market forces will take care of this. If the pay is not competitive and the work conditions suck, people will quit and fewer people will go into teaching. We need teachers so we will have to increase salaries and overall make the job more attractive to get people to stay and enter the profession.

This happened in nursing. Nursing is similar to teaching because it traditionally has been a women's profession. Traditionally women earn less money than men. Nurses use to get paid crap, take crap from doctors, and were not happy. About 20 years ago, women were dropping out of nursing and fewer people were entering the profession. Hospitals started to import nurses from other countries. Now you can earn a decent living as a nurse and pretty much demand and get any work schedule they want.

I roresee this happening with teaching.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! :confused:

On a 12 month basis that equals 56,000. That is not alot of money for someone who has one of the most important jobs, educationg our future, in our country.

You get what pay for. If you want the best people possible educating your children you offer competitive pay to attract them.

If you do not care about your children's education offer pay that does not allow teachers to own a home, raise kids, etc without working a second job.

Do they get docked for every flunky that doesn't make it?

Teachers IMHO are sort of a tool. They teach a general plan, it's the student that rises above.

There are exceptions, but growing up I was really learning on my own rather than the stuff the teacher was talking about that I already knew. Then when the subject was more advanced, I still had to self-study to move forward often just showing up for the tests that allowed it.

Teachers should expect modest lives, if they want more enter the private sector and tutor if you have what it takes.

Market forces will take care of this. If the pay is not competitive and the work conditions suck, people will quit and fewer people will go into teaching. We need teachers so we will have to increase salaries and overall make the job more attractive to get people to stay and enter the profession.

This happened in nursing. Nursing is similar to teaching because it traditionally has been a women's profession. Traditionally women earn less money than men. Nurses use to get paid crap, take crap from doctors, and were not happy. About 20 years ago, women were dropping out of nursing and fewer people were entering the profession. Hospitals started to import nurses from other countries. Now you can earn a decent living as a nurse and pretty much demand and get any work schedule they want.

I roresee this happening with teaching.

Trust me, the jerking around, lower wages, etc still happens ALOT in nursing. But the choice is you do have a choice and some hospitals are WAY better than others. However with teaching sometimes you don't have as much choice, and your hours are pretty much set where ever you go. It'd be nice to see teaching become more open minded but...I don't see that happening in public schools.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: montanafan
I don't know what the average starting salary in Houston city schools is, but I do know that the absolute maximum a teacher in my district can make with 35 years experience and a Doctorate is $51,422.

That's crazy... because if I remember correctly ( it's been about 9 years, so I may be a bit muddled ), at the high school I went to, teachers could make 80k with that criteria. The thing is, I went to a rural high school that was nothing really fancy. Like I said, it could be off since it came from my 9th grade science teacher literally showing some of us the figures from the teacher's handbook. He was a pretty cool teacher :).

I thought about teaching computer science rather than being a software engineer. However... looking at it... I make more money being a software engineer than I probably could at any school (starting off), don't deal with crappy, undisciplined kids and I work less hours. I ain't complaining.
 

huberm

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2004
1,105
1
0
My mom is a public school teacher. She has a master degree in education and only makes low $40k.

In the winter she gets depressed because she goes to work when its dark and doesn't get home until after dark. When she does get to come home by 5 or so she brings home lots of homework to grade or lesson plans to review for the next day.

She spends her summer breaks getting ready for the next school year. She still has meetings and conferences to go to. She is required to get many supplies for her classroom out of her own pocket.

Teachers are way underpaid, if you ask me.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: powerup
I am a teacher as well and I once saw this in the teachers lounge at my school.

Pay Teachers Like Babysitters

This is to everyone who thinks teachers are overpaid. It was taken from an editorial in a New Hampshire newspaper. Author unknown.

Consider this:

If I had my way, I'd pay these teachers myself. I'd pay them babysitting wages. I'd give them $3/hour out of my own pocket. And I'm only going to pay them for 5 hours, not coffee breaks. That would be $15/day. Each parent should pay $15/day for these teachers to babysit their child. Even if they have more than one child, it's still a lot cheaper than private day care.

Now, how many children do they teach everyday? Maybe 20? That's $15 times 20, equaling $300/day. But remember, they only work 180 days a year! I'm not going to pay them for all those vacations! So that's $300 x 180 = $54,000.

Wait. I know that you teachers will say, "What about those who have ten years experience and a masters degree?" Well, maybe (to be fair) they could get the minimum wage, and instead of just babysitting, they could read the kid a story. We could round that off to about $5/hour, times five hours, times 20 children. That's $500/day times 180 days. That's $90,000! Huh?

Wait a minute. Let's get a little perspective here. Babysitting wages are too good for these teachers. Did anyone see a good salary guide around here?

Need I say more?

Signed, An Intelligent Parent

Nice. Of course it's an old thing and is slightly off today. Class sizes are closer to 30-40 for many teachers, babysitters are up to $5-10 per hour, and minimum wage here is almost $8/hr. So with those numbers if it were $5 times 5 hours a day times 30 kids we're at $750/day times 180 days = $135,000. With the minimum wage example in a larger class we're at $8 * 5/day *40 *180 days = $288,000. I'm good with that. :cool:

And then of course we have to realize that babysitters are only required to watch the child for the most part, and respond to emergencies. Teachers do this too but also have to impart knowledge and control a much larger group, as well as do more work after the children are back home. Not to mention that babysitters aren't required to have at least one bachelors and one masters degree, with nearly another degrees worth of extra classes on top of it.

 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: montanafan
I don't know what the average starting salary in Houston city schools is, but I do know that the absolute maximum a teacher in my district can make with 35 years experience and a Doctorate is $51,422.

That's crazy... because if I remember correctly ( it's been about 9 years, so I may be a bit muddled ), at the high school I went to, teachers could make 80k with that criteria. The thing is, I went to a rural high school that was nothing really fancy. Like I said, it could be off since it came from my 9th grade science teacher literally showing some of us the figures from the teacher's handbook. He was a pretty cool teacher :).

I thought about teaching computer science rather than being a software engineer. However... looking at it... I make more money being a software engineer than I probably could at any school (starting off), don't deal with crappy, undisciplined kids and I work less hours. I ain't complaining.

It's very area dependent. Washington state is $60,511 for a PhD with 15 years experience. Last I checked we're right in the middle of the pay scale...24th or some such.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Heh just remember this the next time the teachers unions lobby for more money because of the kids. I believe the avg wage in MN is nearly 55K for teachers. They arent starving.
Money hasnt been the issue of why our public school system has been failing for years. But the teachers unions will try to convince you otherwise.

6 principals per school @ 100K+ each is another reason.
 

Cruisin1

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,119
0
71
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Think back to college and all the education majors you knew. They turned into teachers. Explain much?

HAHAHAHAHHAHAAHA... well then they are overpaid ;)