Why are teachers always complaining about being low paid?

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May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Heh just remember this the next time the teachers unions lobby for more money because of the kids. I believe the avg wage in MN is nearly 55K for teachers. They arent starving.
Money hasnt been the issue of why our public school system has been failing for years. But the teachers unions will try to convince you otherwise.

6 principals per school @ 100K+ each is another reason.

EXACTLY! That 600k would hire 12-15 teachers, thereby reducing class sizes significantly and actually doing some good.

Here's my idea/plan (which also happens to be the core of my masters thesis):

Reduce non-teaching staff to the absolute minimums necessary (a qualified nurse for instance), utilizing community volunteers (parents wherever possible) and teachers (especially those under full time status in order to bring them up to 1.0). Principal roles (perhaps exempting one primary principal) would be undertaken by teachers (on a rotating schedule if necessary). Higher level roles (district, school board, etc) would also be filled by teachers and volunteers except for those positions requiring expert training (lawyers for instance), or eliminated completely. The money saved by these ventures will be primarily earmarked for more teachers since small class sizes is one of the largest factors in education (with an eventual goal of a 20 student per teacher cap). Increasing the number of teachers will also better distribute the ancillary roles so that no one is getting overworked. Furthermore by placing actual teachers in all levels you ensure that the people making the rules are those that actually know the processes (simple TQM/TQL), and have the best possible understanding of the education process. No one without a psychology and/or education background has any business being involved in decisions concerning education. If you haven't taught a class for a year you should have no say in what can/should go on in that class. This means also that teachers keep teaching throughout their careers, even if they're also filling in as principal part time. This keeps them in touch with current trends and such. Finally students should take an active role in ancillary duties as well as the education process. To that end they should be required to contribute to the day to day operation of the school and also mentor lower classmates (the benefits here are numerous and amazing based on current research).

Other possibilities include switching to a M/W/F, T/Th schedule for classes with longer periods (more efficient, trains for college, allows flexibility for teacher scheduling in ancillary roles), transitioning to total open source tech (economic benefits, customizable for best productivity), reintegration of electives and classics education (in accordance with some tenants of perennialism and essentialism), possibility of transitioning to full year calendar, moving to affordable texts of conflicting views (for instance use Zinn and Johnson for American History), greater integration of psychology (specifically personality, developmental, and cognitive (ie IQ) theories), and a number of other lesser points.
 

Skotty

Senior member
Dec 29, 2006
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Are most of you in California? I have various family members in different areas of Education, but they are all in normal states where only a University Professor will start out at 60K+. Don't know what new grade school teachers start out at presently, but I know they make around 50K only after decades of employment and working in a high crime school. I know they used to start out somewhere in the 20's not that long ago.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
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Originally posted by: WT
Yanno, this same tired old thread gets made every year soon after the kids get out of school .. its the same shyt, different year. For those that think its an easy job, I challenge you to look into becoming a teacher. For those that have a teacher friend that works those 7 hour days and calls it a done deal, your friend is one of those teachers we all wish were not employed as a teacher, but there isn't much we can do about it. There are lazy cops, firemen, etc. in every job position, but if you want to make a difference in the education of our youth, don't preach it .. TEACH IT !!!

One cannot use how crappy a job is to justify a high salary. Think of custodians, those that work in crap, etc.

Also the whole 'babysitting' wage thing....well things scale. Most daycares don't get the rate a private nanny/sitter charges. Also everyone is leaving out the benefits teachers usually get in the form of healthcare and the like.

All in all, if one has a problem with the wages stake their rate and stick to it. If you don't get hired then you know you simply are not worth it.

Most people think they are worth way more and do far more for the good of society than they really do.

 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: BoomerD
It strikes me as odd that you folks who may make good money working in IT have a problem with teachers making similarly good wages, even though their work is by far, much harder than yours. Teaching a group of kids, (many of whom don't want to be there in the first place) can't be easy. The teacher is responsible for the content of the classes, responsible for getting the ideas or concepts across, and responsible (to parents and administration) when the students fail to learn. Plus, the students who may not want to be there, tend to be unruly, which takes the attention away from the teacher, and focuses on their bad behavior. Add gang problems to the mix, and being a teacher becomes less and less of a desirable job, unless they are really in it for the kids. Look at the problems faced in inner-city schools...Those teachers DEFINITELY don't get paid enough to deal with the drug-dealing thugs that are in their classrooms.
Teachers just don't get paid enough in this country. We parents send our kids to school, expecting the teachers to educate them, baby-sit them, and care for them while we go to work. At home, far too many parents don't take time to get involved in our kids' education, then complain when Johnny can't read.
If we pay our teachers less, most will find other jobs, and pretty soon, the only ones who will work for the crappy wages are those who really are BAD teachers...

job security...
many out of work it workers right? outsourced?
introduce cheap imported or temporary foreign teachers and well we can talk
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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I'm sure it's been said somewhere in the 6 pages I didn't read, but teachers:

1) have to go home and grade papers at night / on their own time
2) deal with kids / teenagers (sometimes I see teenagers on the street and want to smack them, let alone deal with them all day every day)
3) are scrutanized with every little thing they do (love to hear rumors about yourself around school too, I bet)
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Originally posted by: alkemyst


One cannot use how crappy a job is to justify a high salary. Think of custodians, those that work in crap, etc.

You are correct. However, you can use the importance of your job to justify a higher salary.

I don't think there is a debate about how important (good) teachers are to our society.
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
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Everyone has always told me I should be a teacher. I've trained many people at my job and have helped friends with their papers when I was in school. I'm patient and always look for ways to break down complicated processes or theories into things others can digest. I think it would be rewarding to help turn a child on to reading or showing them another way to tackle a math problem. But there is no way I would do that job for that much money.
 

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
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Originally posted by: azazyel
Everyone has always told me I should be a teacher. I've trained many people at my job and have helped friends with their papers when I was in school. I'm patient and always look for ways to break down complicated processes or theories into things others can digest. I think it would be rewarding to help turn a child on to reading or showing them another way to tackle a math problem. But there is no way I would do that job for that much money.

You mean that little money?? :confused:
 

clickynext

Platinum Member
Dec 24, 2004
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Originally posted by: dudeman007
Originally posted by: OVerLoRDI
42k isn't that much for the amount of crap you have to put up with from annoying kids. Especially if you are working in an inner city school with our wonderful youth.

Teachers do it for the kids....or else they wouldn't be teachers.

Just like how musicians do it for the music? Give me a break...
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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Teaching is a huge committment and responsibility. Where I live, new teachers start at 34K. Because I started teaching 2 years before they upped the starting rate, I have been teaching for 5 years and STILL DON"T MAKE what a new teacher makes. Haha! After next year, I should be at the starting wage.

I can't get in any kind of trouble at all. I can never have a couple of glasses of wine at dinner and then drive because if I get pulled over, my career will be over. Forget wearing a t-shirt that says "Shut The Duck Up" and has a picture of a quacking mallard on it. I need to be aware of my behavior and appearance every time I step out of the door. I am a model to all the children in my community.

I spend literally hundreds of my own dollars each year on my class. Averages about $800... it's just odds and ends that make the experience better for my students. I work about 60 hours a week but am only paid for 40.

The problem is, I LOVE teaching. If it was about money, I wouldn't be doing it. I don't complain because it is a choice I made knowingly. I quietly teach my students to question things they don't understand, to have compassion, and to realize that we are always in the process of learning. I hope that if they don't have open, hungry minds when they come in, that they do when they leave me.

What I don't like are wanks who have no idea what goes into being a good teacher.
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: Analog
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: azazyel
Everyone has always told me I should be a teacher. I've trained many people at my job and have helped friends with their papers when I was in school. I'm patient and always look for ways to break down complicated processes or theories into things others can digest. I think it would be rewarding to help turn a child on to reading or showing them another way to tackle a math problem. But there is no way I would do that job for that much money.</end quote></div>

You mean that little money?? :confused:

I hear you, azazyel. I can afford to teach because my husband makes a lot of money doing something that doesn't fulfill him. Kind of ironic. He makes big bucks in a souless career and I make 33K working my butt off doing something that makes a huge difference in people's lives. Go figure.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: Isla
Teaching is a huge committment and responsibility. Where I live, new teachers start at 34K. Because I started teaching 2 years before they upped the starting rate, I have been teaching for 5 years and STILL DON"T MAKE what a new teacher makes. Haha! After next year, I should be at the starting wage.



They don't have a universal pay chart for your area? Here in georgia they have a chart where it's broken down by degree, bachelors, masters, specialists, and doctorate, then by years of service, and thats what you get. Also based upon the school system they may add a certain amount to that, some don't add any. But in no cases would a 5 year teacher make less than a new teacher. That would suck to be in your position. Are you in a private school, I couldn't imagine that this would be donee in a public school system.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: BarneyFife
If they are teaching summer classes which only very few do, then they get paid. If they are taking courses/refresher courses then they are doing so for free because its included in the great benefits package. They have around 10 weeks off in the summer, 1.5 weeks off during Christmas, another week off in February, and another week off for spring break. I don't even want to get into the benefits they get because they are the awesome.

What "awesome benefits"? They get about the same health plan as any other professional job and that's it.

The students get a week and a half at Christmas, the teachers end up with less than a week by the time necessary prep is done. Spring break is similar. What is this break in February that you speak of? I certainly didn't get such a break when I was in school and the teachers didn't get those days off.

The summer is full of in-services and making lesson plans for the coming year.

During the year, teachers are generally at the school by 6:30 or 7:00 (HS) or no later than 8:00 (Elementary), and typically don't leave for home until 6:00 or so. Yes, a 9-10 hour day. Then, once they get home, they spend the evening grading papers or preparing tests.

Most teachers will put in 60+ hours a week during school. Even with the mythical "3 months vacation", they'll still put in more hours per year than most of us who work 9-5.

Not just that, but they have no flexible vacation. Teachers are not permitted to take personal leave days during the school year except in emergency situations. No flexibility whatsoever in when they can take their vacations.

ZV
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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KK, I live in FL. Many of our new grads move to GA to work... GA treats teachers much better than FL has in the past several years. When they upped the pay for new teachers and left me out (I was a new educator and untenured) I just took it as a 'lump' I had to accept. They did it to attract new teachers, and I was already in the system. I still love teaching.

I am in the process of earning my National Board Certification... the good thing is, the state is paying for most of it (there is a 3K fee) and by this time next year, I will have earned a 4K raise because of it. If I had my Master's, I would make more... but it's very expensive to take graduate courses and quite frankly, after working all day and taking care of my family, I'm not really up for that right now. National Boards is a good way to document what I do--- Best Practices--- and since I intend to stay in the classroom, it is a good alternative to getting a Masters (which is mostly for those who want to be admins.).
 

jadinolf

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers in Houston ISD start at 42k on average, and that's just for 9 months a year! I'd love to be making that! :confused:

They make a heck of lot more than that here.
 

patentman

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2005
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Because it is a hell of job 9 months out o the year, they have the responsibility of educating our youth (arguably one of the most important jobs in our society), and they get yelled at if they even look at a kid the wrong way. Good qualified teachers should be paid quite a bit more then they are IMO
 

patentman

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Accipiter22
Originally posted by: Alone
Not all teachers make the same.

most here in Massachusetts make that to start...I dunno why they bitch so much.

Have you seen the average price of a single family home in MA, at least anywhere near a population center. Try paying that mortgage on 42k a year. I'm shuddering and my wife and I combined make quite a bit more.
 

patentman

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Laminator
"What baffles me is how cops make so little money."

Oakland PD is offering something like $70,000 right out of the academy. But it's Oakland, so that's still not enough. :D

Ah, but most cops are dumbasses. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just speaking the truth. Heck, I'd wager most cops do not have much more then a highschool degree.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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they complain because they can
the upside to their "low" wages are job security and total safety from outsourcing. they get generous health benifits. never mind the relatively short days/and days off. no teachers working 60+hrs a week just to keep their job. theres no worry about going out of business.

i don't really feel that sorry for teachers.
 
Nov 5, 2001
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most teachers spend their summers developing lesson plans for the following year. And most teachers end up buying most of the necessary materials out of their pockets as the schools can't fund their needs.
 

covert24

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2006
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my old english teacher used to bitch everyday about not getting paid at all. Meanwhile she lives on a private island with there own little community away from everything in the middle of the god dam water.
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
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Since when is 40-60k a year not enough money to live off of? I lived on my own making less than 15k a year. Rent, car insurance, gas, food, bills....and I spared a little money each month.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
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Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Since when is 40-60k a year not enough money to live off of? I lived on my own making less than 15k a year. Rent, car insurance, gas, food, bills....and I spared a little money each month.

And exactly where were you located? If you were in grad school, I'd say that comparison doesn't really work.

That said, 25k/year in el paso will do you just fine. 25k/year in Boston, New York, Washington D.C. or anywhere in California (except maybe ridgecrest) will be pretty hard to live on. Not impossible, but certainly not very comfortable either.