Why are teachers always complaining about being low paid?

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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Originally posted by: boomerang
Read up Don't tell me your doubts, tell me what you know. I can spout off all kinds of sh!t that I think is right.


Hahahaha, know nothing ATOT being owned as usual...

uh. nope no ownage.

he said they get full pay +1.5%x year wich is wrong.

its fullpay x 1.5% x years. wich is a HUGE diffrence.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Teachers get paid just fine for the jobs they do. Work 9 months a year, have lots of holidays during those 9 months to boot. Have great benefits.

Teaching is one of the easiest degrees to get.

And...the real reason they don't have a right to bitch: THEY KNEW ALL THIS BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO BE TEACHERS

This varies from state to state. However, here you no longer get "a teaching degree" - you get certified to teach through a variety of education courses, student teaching, etc. However, in order to get a license in many states, you have to graduate with a degree in the field which you are going to teach. i.e. I have a degree in mathematics. Not kiddy math either - real math - calc I, II, III, differential equations, linear algebra, partial differential equations, real analysis, math modeling, abstract algebra,... the list goes on. I'm currently working on a master's degree in physics to gain permanent certification in physics. It's not an "education degree," although you can get your master's degree in various areas of education.
 

RadioHead84

Platinum Member
Jan 8, 2004
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Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Teachers get paid just fine for the jobs they do. Work 9 months a year, have lots of holidays during those 9 months to boot. Have great benefits.

Teaching is one of the easiest degrees to get.

And...the real reason they don't have a right to bitch: THEY KNEW ALL THIS BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO BE TEACHERS

This varies from state to state. However, here you no longer get "a teaching degree" - you get certified to teach through a variety of education courses, student teaching, etc. However, in order to get a license in many states, you have to graduate with a degree in the field which you are going to teach. i.e. I have a degree in mathematics. Not kiddy math either - real math - calc I, II, III, differential equations, linear algebra, partial differential equations, real analysis, math modeling, abstract algebra,... the list goes on. I'm currently working on a master's degree in physics to gain permanent certification in physics. It's not an "education degree," although you can get your master's degree in various areas of education.

Yeah the school I go to is a big teaching school and I was always amazed that to be a Math Teacher in middle or high school you need a full fledged math degree. I mean...the teacher should be able to explain how things work and why things are the way they are but when are you ever going to need anything above calc 3. This...to me...is why there is a shortage of math teachers.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: RadioHead84
Yeah the school I go to is a big teaching school and I was always amazed that to be a Math Teacher in middle or high school you need a full fledged math degree. I mean...the teacher should be able to explain how things work and why things are the way they are but when are you ever going to need anything above calc 3. This...to me...is why there is a shortage of math teachers.

Not even just that, if you're going to get a math degree, there are many jobs that would pay you much more than a teacher would ever make.
 

slpaulson

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: joshsquall
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Originally posted by: RaistlinZ
You're thinking that they work from 8am-3pm and that's it. Wrong. They put in hours outside of the classroom everyday getting ready for the next days lessons. Not to mention grading tests, reports, quizzes, etc once they get home.

And I doubt most teachers sit on their assess all summer either. They're probably either teaching a summer course or two, or taking classes and refresher courses themselves. Considering the hours they put in outside of the classroom and the amount of crap they have to put up with, $42,000/yr is nothing IMO.

I don't think you know many teachers very well, or you know pretty inefficient teachers. After 1-2 years, a majority of teachers have their lesson plans created which they will use for the next 10-15 years (obviously this can vary based on the volatility of subject matter and social trends). Most teachers also do not spend hours every night at home grading assignments. Most schools have teachers actually teaching during 50-80% of the day. During the time that students aren't being directly taught or supervised (ex. during in class written assignments, films, resource classes, lunch, planning period, study hall, etc.), most teachers get their grading done. My SO and her mother are both special ed teachers, one of the most demanding specialties in terms of individualized lesson plans and IUPs, and they rarely have work to bring home. I, on the other hand, as a developer work until 7pm each evening and routinely put in 12 hour days when preparing for a deadline.

A majority of teachers don't sit on their asses all summer. They clean, garden, play with their kids, etc. If they do choose to teach a summer course or two, they are being paid for it. I go to technical training several times a year - I think teachers can handle their continuing education courses.

$42K a year at 7 hours a day for 9 months of the year is equal to around $32 an hour. I feel so horrible for teachers.

You're either ignorant, or totally blind. NO FULL-TIME school teacher only works 7 hours per day. MOST put in 7-9 at school, PLUS 4 or more at home working on the little stuff they don't get paid for...grading papers, lesson plans, ect. MAYBE some have lesson plans they use from year to year, but subject matter (escept the hard sciences) changes from year to year, and new textbooks come out fairly frequently, so lesson plans have to be changed to accomodate those changes as well. Gone are the days when the world was static, when a school could use the same geography or history books for many years in a row. Hell, even math and science books change fairly frequently to keep up with changes in the world. (remember, .999 =! 1.000)

You're either an idiot or you didn't read my entire post. If the teachers you know are putting in 4 hours a day at home, every day, they don't know what the hell they're doing.

EDIT: Do you actually know any teachers, or are you just making up crap for arguments sake, like most ATOTers?

My friend who is a teacher puts in about that much every day after school. Granted, she's a first year teacher...
 

Imdmn04

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: DonVito
$42K is barely a living wage. Is that supposed to be a lot?

Oh really?


Link

According to this chart, 40k is 56th percentile, so you are saying the average American is barely make a a living wage? Gee, how do most people live then.



 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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Originally posted by: DonVito
$42K is barely a living wage. Is that supposed to be a lot?

$42k around here is great! I would think for the majority of the country it is also.

 

thomsbrain

Lifer
Dec 4, 2001
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From what I understand, a starting teacher in CA makes less than $30K. Couple that with extreme housing costs, and you have a lower-class wage there.
 

Cdubneeddeal

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2003
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Originally posted by: thomsbrain
From what I understand, a starting teacher in CA makes less than $30K. Couple that with extreme housing costs, and you have a lower-class wage there.

According to a study from Stanford University, they make 20k plus more than what you stated: Text

 

WT

Diamond Member
Sep 21, 2000
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Yanno, this same tired old thread gets made every year soon after the kids get out of school .. its the same shyt, different year. For those that think its an easy job, I challenge you to look into becoming a teacher. For those that have a teacher friend that works those 7 hour days and calls it a done deal, your friend is one of those teachers we all wish were not employed as a teacher, but there isn't much we can do about it. There are lazy cops, firemen, etc. in every job position, but if you want to make a difference in the education of our youth, don't preach it .. TEACH IT !!!
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
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you really have no idea what $hit teachers have to put up with if you think "what are they complaining about?"

fwiw, most teachers don't stop working when the last bell rings. my mom typically had another 5-6 hours of work (grading, planning, etc.) AFTER arriving at school at 7am and leaving around 5.
 

Cabages

Platinum Member
Jan 1, 2006
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Teachers put up with a lot of sh!t.

My mom had to go back to go back in get some degree because they all of a sudden changed the rules. She doesnt earn much, and she came out of pocket for all that extra schooling. The only reason she sticks around is because she likes her job, shes actually lost money.

Its a joke. Maybe if they earned more, I might be a teacher. FFS they spend money everywhere but the teachers.
 

3NF

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: DonVito
$42K is barely a living wage. Is that supposed to be a lot?

Yea, it's barely a living wage if you live in Manhattan or something.

 

xanis

Lifer
Sep 11, 2005
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Starting wages, even in the higher-end school districts, aren't good. It's a totally different story if you have seniority.... those with seniority make $95K (incl. benefits) in both my school district and the school district my mom teaches in. Like I said though, starting salaries sucks, but the awesome benefits are what usually keep the teachers.

 

RU482

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
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Sometimes I think that (teachers are paid too much)
and other times, I think..."wow, I wouldn't do that job for $100k a year.

So, if I have to pay another $12 on my property taxes next year so my kids teacher can get a 7% raise, I say no big deal.
 

Imdmn04

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2002
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I have just check the public records in my area, most tenured teachers make around 52k base, plus 10k in extras (teaching driver'ed, chaperoning trips/sports, etc.)

60k is not bad, it's actually better than 78 percent of Americans according to this link.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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You know why they complain? Because in CA where I live and where my home costs $2+ million, and 2 BRs are going close to 1 million, teachers get paid starting at 40k. Have fun with living in CA. Living elsewhere?? Maybe. I can see it doable, but when you're talking BAY AREA? Hah, tough luck, especially Silicon Valley. East bay isdoable, but most of the teachers I knew commuted from a good 15 minutes away, from the cheaper areas.

If the household median income is so low, isn't this why so much of America is in debt?

Originally posted by: redly1
Sometimes I think that (teachers are paid too much)
and other times, I think..."wow, I wouldn't do that job for $100k a year.

So, if I have to pay another $12 on my property taxes next year so my kids teacher can get a 7% raise, I say no big deal.

I voted NO on that when that measure came around my city. It was the principle that MY property taxes are already damn high. When housing prices are like this in CA, what do you expect?
 
Mar 15, 2003
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Probably has been mentioned, but here are the main factors:
1. My teacher friends have over $100,000 in college loans. It's competitive here - you have to go to a top tier grand school to really get a decent job in a neighborhood you won't get shot in. Inves]
2.$35-40k a year based on the education that teachers has isn't a lot. People with B.A.s make that much, most teachers in nyc need to have a masters, unless they teach at private school
3. I think the estimate is that for every 1 class hour they do 2 hours of prep work. Grading tests, reading papers, creating lesson plans.

My ex is a teacher and she works from 7 in the morning until 6 or 7 at night, until 10 pm twice a week (they have weekly faculty meetings as well) and goes to school one day a week (she's a teaching fellow). She never whines about her pay though. I think a small minority of people who whine are much louder than the people who love their job and do it for the passion, not the money.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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Originally posted by: Bibble
Originally posted by: OVerLoRDI
42k isn't that much for the amount of crap you have to put up with from annoying kids. Especially if you are working in an inner city school with our wonderful youth.

Well said, sir.

One of my high school teachers ranted about this same thing in class. He claimed that what teachers make is "one step above the poverty line." He argued that since teachers aren't paid enough, really talented individuals who would make great teachers go into other fields. This leaves the jobs to be filled by people who are second-rate and do not perform as well as the more talented individuals would. This results in the detriment of students' educations. Ergo, paying teachers 80k+ would result in more talented individuals becoming teachers, which in turn would result in better educations for children.

I'm not sure if I agree with his logic, but I do feel teachers should be paid more. My mother has been an elementary school teacher in a city for 25 years and makes close to 90k now working from 7 to 4. She usually teaches summer school too, which gives her about another 8k (not sure how much exactly). She doesn't complain about being underpaid.

Economic theory states if you increase teacher pay, you will attract even more incompetent candidates. The fact is that they get paid a decent salary + time off like no other + best healthcare + overpaid pension for the shti job they do.
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
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There are a couple of factors here:

First, teachers do not work 9 months a year. They work at least 10 1/2 months a year. In their "off" time they're often putting together lesson plans for the coming year, continuing their education, or partaking in some other activity that relates to their career. From what I have seen, teachers work the same amount of days per year as other professionals (well, accountants at least).

Second, teachers often work more hours. The teachers I know usually end up working from 7:30 to 5, like anyone else, and then come home and work more in the evening to prepare for the coming day.

Third, teachers are always "on." As an accountant, if I have an off day, I'm usually not going to have many issues because of it. Teachers don't have that luxury.

Fourth, teachers get paid very low relative to other highly educated professionals. I do not know many professionals in Seattle, WA, for example, that would be happy making 35k/year after getting their masters degree.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: JS80
Economic theory states if you increase teacher pay, you will attract even more incompetent candidates. The fact is that they get paid a decent salary + time off like no other + best healthcare + overpaid pension for the shti job they do.

In the case of YOUR teachers... that may be true!

 
May 16, 2000
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I don't have time to read all the posts, so I'm sure most of what I'll say has already been covered. Even so, I'll toss my perspective in.

When I finish school I'll have a Masters in Education and a BA in History with a minor in Poli-Sci, plus the equivalent of a BS between math and chemistry classes (and will very quickly work to a BS in each due to 'highly qualified' requirements). In addition I have to take about 24-36 credits in every endorsement area, which for me means history, math, and chemistry, for almost the equivalent of another bachelors degree. Every couple years I have to return to school for 3-9 credits, and ever 5 years I have to re-certify to keep my license which will mean additional classes.

I'll have to work 9 months a year every year, and ever 2nd-4th summer I'll work all summer. I have to be a faculty adviser for at least one extra-curricular which will probably be debate, drama, or knowledge bowl (by whatever name they call it). I'll have to show up by 7ish at the latest and won't get done with regular classes before 230-300. Then 1-2 hours for conferences, after school help, and my extra-curricular. So lets just round it and say 7-5 every day. I'll have to put in at least 1-3 hours a night grading homework and preparing for the next days classes. I'll have to also put that work in on weekends (not to mention tournaments and such), plus since History is my focus I'll probably need to use 2-6 hours every Saturday and Sunday for grading essays. So, I'll work 10-13 hours a day M-F, then 4-12 hours both weekend days, then my tournament schedule (which for debate would amount to about 20-30 hours every two weeks). In other words I'll put in a minimum of 70 hours a week for those 9 months that school is in. We haven't even covered staff meetings, educational conferences, parent/teacher conferences, finals, midterms, graduation projects, etc.

If I can find a full time position (which isn't easy for a new teacher unless your primary focus is science or math) then I'll earn between 32,000 and 42,000 a year. More likely I'll get a .4 or .6 position which will get me a whopping 16k (roughly) for all my time and money getting my education.

If you doubt my education requirements, pay scale, or hours you can easily Google to get the exact same answers from all the research done. Teachers put in at least as many hours of work in a year as every other profession. Teachers now require far more education than almost any jobs, and generally pay less for the required education.

I'm not complaining about my pay, because the benefits are great and it's what I've always wanted to do (not to mention being more than I've ever made before). However you need to think about what really goes into the job before you make comments about it.
 
May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: RaistlinZ
You're thinking that they work from 8am-3pm and that's it. Wrong. They put in hours outside of the classroom everyday getting ready for the next days lessons. Not to mention grading tests, reports, quizzes, etc once they get home.

And I doubt most teachers sit on their assess all summer either. They're probably either teaching a summer course or two, or taking classes and refresher courses themselves. Considering the hours they put in outside of the classroom and the amount of crap they have to put up with, $42,000/yr is nothing IMO.

If they are teaching summer classes which only very few do, then they get paid. If they are taking courses/refresher courses then they are doing so for free because its included in the great benefits package. They have around 10 weeks off in the summer, 1.5 weeks off during Christmas, another week off in February, and another week off for spring break. I don't even want to get into the benefits they get because they are the awesome.

The only teaching jobs I've ever seen that are covered by the job is for college professors, and you still have to pay fees, taxes, books, etc, even when tuition is waived/covered.