Whats the 4000 series bring to the table and when

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi
The claims of one card beating or killing another are all speculation at this point in time. Since the link you provided is broken no one can say anything. Also a cards performance in one game doesn't translate into overall performance.

yah definitely don't go by 3dmark scores. check out the other thread for benchmark discussion of crossfire x vs. tri-sli between rollo and myself.

Oh come on...

I don't understand why people get so irritated by speculation and question it so vehemently.

The 9800GX2 will have at least the equivalent of 2 8800GTX's. That definately beats a 3870X2 in my books.

The 9800GT should definately be faster than the 8800GT, which by extention is much faster than the 3870.

The fact that AMD is in hot water is a given right now...on all fronts. They need to somehow establish themselves as a market leader in *something*.

that's a bold statement about the 9800gx2. So you think that the 9800gx2 will beat sli'd 8800gtx's??? REALLY??? 9800gx2 is just 2 down-clocked 8800gts 512's pasted together. one 8800gts 512 is comparable to a gtx at medium resolution, but at higher res, especially with AA/AF, the gtx has a clear advantage. Therefore, how is 9800gx2 better than 2 gtx's?

yeah .. and i am gonna BE P'O'd if it turns out to be slower or only a little faster than my budget [$480] X-fire :|
[which is about - very roughly - as fast as a 3870X2 in my rig]

personally, i doubt it
-i am expecting at least +25-33% more or i will be disappointed ... and IF i am lucky and can get my hands [and my CC] wrapped around one at MSRP, you'll hear all about it
--it should be reason for an "ultra" owner to finally upgrade [i hope]

... and *paging* Mr. [nv]Rollo!

you never DID answer my question .. P-L-E-A-S-E

... what average FPS does your rig play Crysis at 'Very high' at your LCD's highest resolution? [no need for any comment - i won't laugh or cry - just post your average, please]

now you got me with your last comment
... what ARE the *currently* "at least five SLi configurations that will be faster than a 8800GT SLi rig".

 

[bryanW1995]

rollo games on a 15" monitor that he stole from some german web site...800x600 looks AWESOME with tri-sli

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
rollo games on a 15" monitor that he stole from some german web site...800x600 looks AWESOME with tri-sli

don't laugh .. *i* played Crysis on Very High at 10x7 on my 19" CRT
:Q

--But it was still Cursis
:roll:

that's WHY i am getting GX2
---to play it at max details at 10x7


sure

 

[BigMoosey74]

One card pwning the other has no meaning. The performances depend on too many things and the cards play leap frog depending on which game you benchmark with and on what system. It is well known that the G92 chip is far stronger than the RV670 anyway.

ATI is doing the revision too to A12 which is supposed to bump up the clocks and performance of the RV670 chips and giving the 3870x2 a PCIe 2.0 switch.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin


... and *paging* Mr. [nv]Rollo!

you never DID answer my question .. P-L-E-A-S-E

... what average FPS does your rig play Crysis at 'Very high' at your LCD's highest resolution? [no need for any comment - i won't laugh or cry - just post your average, please]

now you got me with your last comment
... what ARE the *currently* "at least five SLi configurations that will be faster than a 8800GT SLi rig".

Sorry, just got home from along day at work then 4.5 hour road trip down to Chicago to buy a small outboard motor for one of my boats, too tired to go down to basement and bench Crysis.*

The five rigs are 8800GTS SLi, 8800GTX SLi, 8800Ultra Sli, 8800GTX 3 Way, 8800Ultra 3 way.

Some of the factory OCd 8800GTS 640 SLi sets may well be faster than 8800GT SLi as well.

*PM me tomorrow and I will

 

[apoppin]

Thanks .. and thanks again - i will ...
... i forgot or didn't realize the GTS SLi was faster

hard day too, huh
:wine:

 

[bryanW1995]

yeah, it sucks when you have to get a new motor for ONE OF your boats. The only thing worse would be NOT HAVING A BOAT like most of us... Of course, you do know what boat stands for, right?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
yeah, it sucks when you have to get a new motor for ONE OF your boats. The only thing worse would be NOT HAVING A BOAT like most of us... Of course, you do know what boat stands for, right?

I've heard "hole in the water you throw money into" and agree with that, did you have another one?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi
The claims of one card beating or killing another are all speculation at this point in time. Since the link you provided is broken no one can say anything. Also a cards performance in one game doesn't translate into overall performance.

yah definitely don't go by 3dmark scores. check out the other thread for benchmark discussion of crossfire x vs. tri-sli between rollo and myself.

Oh come on...

I don't understand why people get so irritated by speculation and question it so vehemently.

The 9800GX2 will have at least the equivalent of 2 8800GTX's. That definately beats a 3870X2 in my books.

The 9800GT should definately be faster than the 8800GT, which by extention is much faster than the 3870.

The fact that AMD is in hot water is a given right now...on all fronts. They need to somehow establish themselves as a market leader in *something*.

that's a bold statement about the 9800gx2. So you think that the 9800gx2 will beat sli'd 8800gtx's??? REALLY??? 9800gx2 is just 2 down-clocked 8800gts 512's pasted together. one 8800gts 512 is comparable to a gtx at medium resolution, but at higher res, especially with AA/AF, the gtx has a clear advantage. Therefore, how is 9800gx2 better than 2 gtx's?

I was under the impression that the 9800GX2 has two 9800GTX GPUs inside...

Even downclocked, it should definately beat the 3870X2, which was the point I was trying to make anyways.

 

[batmang]

PRICE plays a huge role in the market. ATi's crossfire mixing is pretty damn attractive and cost effective. I'm sure ATi has a answer to the 9000 series cards. Just wait and see!

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi
The claims of one card beating or killing another are all speculation at this point in time. Since the link you provided is broken no one can say anything. Also a cards performance in one game doesn't translate into overall performance.

yah definitely don't go by 3dmark scores. check out the other thread for benchmark discussion of crossfire x vs. tri-sli between rollo and myself.

Oh come on...

I don't understand why people get so irritated by speculation and question it so vehemently.

The 9800GX2 will have at least the equivalent of 2 8800GTX's. That definately beats a 3870X2 in my books.

The 9800GT should definately be faster than the 8800GT, which by extention is much faster than the 3870.

The fact that AMD is in hot water is a given right now...on all fronts. They need to somehow establish themselves as a market leader in *something*.

that's a bold statement about the 9800gx2. So you think that the 9800gx2 will beat sli'd 8800gtx's??? REALLY??? 9800gx2 is just 2 down-clocked 8800gts 512's pasted together. one 8800gts 512 is comparable to a gtx at medium resolution, but at higher res, especially with AA/AF, the gtx has a clear advantage. Therefore, how is 9800gx2 better than 2 gtx's?

I was under the impression that the 9800GX2 has two 9800GTX GPUs inside...

Even downclocked, it should definately beat the 3870X2, which was the point I was trying to make anyways.

well, technically I think that we are BOTH right. 9800gtx is looking like an identical card to 8800gts 512, just with a few minor optimizations and higher clocks.

rollo, Break Out Another Thousand.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: batmang
PRICE plays a huge role in the market. ATi's crossfire mixing is pretty damn attractive and cost effective. I'm sure ATi has a answer to the 9000 series cards. Just wait and see!

um...yeah. How about something like "I've read that the 4000 series should be 50%+ faster than 3000 series", or maybe "that 4870x2 appears to be a real 9800gx2-killer based upon released specs". We're ALL sure that AMD has an answer for the 9000 series cards, just like nvidia will have an answer to amd's answer. Heck, most of us here have an answer for the 9000 series and it's ridiculous "refreshes": it's called buying a 3870 or 8800gt now or saving our money and waiting for a REAL nextgen series like gt200 or r700.

See how I did that? I made a true statement in support of AMD without coming across as a fanboy.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
yeah, it sucks when you have to get a new motor for ONE OF your boats. The only thing worse would be NOT HAVING A BOAT like most of us... Of course, you do know what boat stands for, right?

I've heard "hole in the water you throw money into" and agree with that, did you have another one?

i always heard - my uncle was an awesome fisherman with the tails to prove it:

"the happiest day of a boat owner's life is the day they buy the boat and the day they sell it."

buying a motor for your 'hole' should be a happy day

i have a Big One in my RIG that need filling

Originally posted by: batmang
PRICE plays a huge role in the market. ATi's crossfire mixing is pretty damn attractive and cost effective. I'm sure ATi has a answer to the 9000 series cards. Just wait and see!

how long ... i LAST heard that argument in November '06 and i *waited* 'till May '07 for my 2900xt .. it was an "answer" ... but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

i said "i think"

i didn't forget .. and i AM waiting .. to test it

i am not the slightest bit impressed with 3970x2 ... my own budget-mismatched X-fire set matches it performance wise in my rig
- X2 is not an improvement over 2900xt CrossFire - from last year


if nvidia *can't* beat that, they might as well give up and sell their company ... right now ... AMD will roll right over them.
:roll:
^[steamroll]

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

You don't know what operating temps are on GX2s, so you can't accurately call them "hot".

You can't call the GPUs "poop" because they are both technically superior to anything ATi (or anyone else) has been able to make to date, and offer higher performance. (unless your definition of "poop" = "best")

Last, if the rumored $599 price is true, and the performance is considerably higher than a 3870X2, what's the problem? Contrary to popular belief, people are willing to pay for higher performance. When ATi offers that, they will charge for it as well. The only reason ATi parts are inexpensive now is because the "poop" offers so many pesky advantages.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

i said "i think"

i didn't forget .. and i AM waiting .. to test it

i am not the slightest bit impressed with 3970x2 ... my own budget-mismatched X-fire set matches it performance wise in my rig
- X2 is not an improvement over 2900xt CrossFire - from last year


if nvidia *can't* beat that, they might as well give up and sell their company ... right now ... AMD will roll right over them.
:roll:
^[steamroll]

3870 X2 isn't an upgrade over HD 2900 XT/Pro crossfire? That's not really true. RV670 is faster clock-for-clock in certain situations (especially DX10) and the 3870 X2 runs at 825MHz versus 745MHz for an XT. In your situation, 3870 X2 would be better too because your Pro is running in a slow PCI-E slot because of the P35 board.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

i said "i think"

i didn't forget .. and i AM waiting .. to test it

i am not the slightest bit impressed with 3970x2 ... my own budget-mismatched X-fire set matches it performance wise in my rig
- X2 is not an improvement over 2900xt CrossFire - from last year


if nvidia *can't* beat that, they might as well give up and sell their company ... right now ... AMD will roll right over them.
:roll:
^[steamroll]

3870 X2 isn't an upgrade over HD 2900 XT/Pro crossfire? That's not really true. RV670 is faster clock-for-clock in certain situations (especially DX10) and the 3870 X2 runs at 825MHz versus 745MHz for an XT. In your situation, 3870 X2 would be better too because your Pro is running in a slow PCI-E slot because of the P35 board.

maybe not "really true" but it IS "mostly true" in my rig

Evidently 3870 is not much of an upgrade for me at 16x10 ... no, not at all .. check it's benchmarks in similar systems .. my rig hangs right in there with it .. slightly behind occasionally, occasionally i do better ... and i am just behind 2900xt/2900xt CrossFire; that 4x slot only affects the 2nd card anyway

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

You don't know what operating temps are on GX2s, so you can't accurately call them "hot".

You can't call the GPUs "poop" because they are both technically superior to anything ATi (or anyone else) has been able to make to date, and offer higher performance. (unless your definition of "poop" = "best")

Last, if the rumored $599 price is true, and the performance is considerably higher than a 3870X2, what's the problem? Contrary to popular belief, people are willing to pay for higher performance. When ATi offers that, they will charge for it as well. The only reason ATi parts are inexpensive now is because the "poop" offers so many pesky advantages.

Yeah, the "toast" might be running a little cooler because they downclocked the two GTSs that they just put face to face (what a technical prowess !)

In any case ATi did a lot better in terms of design with the 3870X2 - new design, single PCB card, significantly easier to cool.

I doubt the 9800GX2 is going to perform 50% better than the 3870X2 to justify spending nearly $200 more... And yes, I know some people are willing to spend more for better performance (I am too), but then again there are also people that are gonna spend $0 on a new card and they are going to flood the forums with how good it is and what pesky advantages it offers (like boiling an egg for free in the morning, while reading your favorite forum)

Just wait and see and stop arguing with everyone that dares to say other than superlatives about nV.

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

i said "i think"

i didn't forget .. and i AM waiting .. to test it

i am not the slightest bit impressed with 3970x2 ... my own budget-mismatched X-fire set matches it performance wise in my rig
- X2 is not an improvement over 2900xt CrossFire - from last year


if nvidia *can't* beat that, they might as well give up and sell their company ... right now ... AMD will roll right over them.
:roll:
^[steamroll]

I think even if they can beat that by 5-10% for $200 more, should they do the same. I say we wait and see

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi
The claims of one card beating or killing another are all speculation at this point in time. Since the link you provided is broken no one can say anything. Also a cards performance in one game doesn't translate into overall performance.

yah definitely don't go by 3dmark scores. check out the other thread for benchmark discussion of crossfire x vs. tri-sli between rollo and myself.

Oh come on...

I don't understand why people get so irritated by speculation and question it so vehemently.

The 9800GX2 will have at least the equivalent of 2 8800GTX's. That definately beats a 3870X2 in my books.

The 9800GT should definately be faster than the 8800GT, which by extention is much faster than the 3870.

The fact that AMD is in hot water is a given right now...on all fronts. They need to somehow establish themselves as a market leader in *something*.

that's a bold statement about the 9800gx2. So you think that the 9800gx2 will beat sli'd 8800gtx's??? REALLY??? 9800gx2 is just 2 down-clocked 8800gts 512's pasted together. one 8800gts 512 is comparable to a gtx at medium resolution, but at higher res, especially with AA/AF, the gtx has a clear advantage. Therefore, how is 9800gx2 better than 2 gtx's?

He said, "The 9800GX2 will have at least the equivalent of 2 8800GTX's. That definately beats a 3870X2 in my books."

Whether it is or not, you changed what he said to "beat" and "better". In about a dozen further posts, this could change to "totally anihilate SLI'd 8800GTX's", correct?

Why you decided to put words in his mouth eludes me (unless he actually said this somewhere else in the thread), regardless of whether he is correct or incorrect.

You think I'm nitpicking? No. This is how flame wars start. Do not misquote people, then go on a tirade about it.

 

[BFG10K]

You don't know what operating temps are on GX2s, so you can't accurately call them "hot".

With two 8800 GTSes slapped together on one board I think it's safe to say it'll be quite toasty.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: apoppin
[...] but i think AMD has to do a LOT better to answer GX2 than with 3870x4

You forgot 9800GX2 isn't released yet. I read somewhere you said wait and see...

P.S. And, if nV's hot pooptoast really costs $599, the 3870X2 may be an answer given before the question.

i said "i think"

i didn't forget .. and i AM waiting .. to test it

i am not the slightest bit impressed with 3970x2 ... my own budget-mismatched X-fire set matches it performance wise in my rig
- X2 is not an improvement over 2900xt CrossFire - from last year


if nvidia *can't* beat that, they might as well give up and sell their company ... right now ... AMD will roll right over them.
:roll:
^[steamroll]

I think even if they can beat that by 5-10% for $200 more, should they do the same. I say we wait and see

i AM going to wait and see ... for me, it has always been "bang for buck" ... if GX2 is $450 i am all over it .. if it is $650 and "only" has +33% improvement over my rig or an Ultra, forget it ...

my rig is "fine" for playing DX10 games at 16x10
["sweet 16" :heart:]

... i just want "better" ... IF i can get it for ~$500 [-$350 for my current setup]

GX2 has to "impress" me to even buy and/or keep it
--or it IS "worth waiting" for r700 for my situation

otoh, if i had a *single* 2900xt [with no upgrade path that i took with Xfire] .. i might be getting really "desperate" about now.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi
The claims of one card beating or killing another are all speculation at this point in time. Since the link you provided is broken no one can say anything. Also a cards performance in one game doesn't translate into overall performance.

yah definitely don't go by 3dmark scores. check out the other thread for benchmark discussion of crossfire x vs. tri-sli between rollo and myself.

Oh come on...

I don't understand why people get so irritated by speculation and question it so vehemently.

The 9800GX2 will have at least the equivalent of 2 8800GTX's. That definately beats a 3870X2 in my books.

The 9800GT should definately be faster than the 8800GT, which by extention is much faster than the 3870.

The fact that AMD is in hot water is a given right now...on all fronts. They need to somehow establish themselves as a market leader in *something*.

that's a bold statement about the 9800gx2. So you think that the 9800gx2 will beat sli'd 8800gtx's??? REALLY??? 9800gx2 is just 2 down-clocked 8800gts 512's pasted together. one 8800gts 512 is comparable to a gtx at medium resolution, but at higher res, especially with AA/AF, the gtx has a clear advantage. Therefore, how is 9800gx2 better than 2 gtx's?

He said, "The 9800GX2 will have at least the equivalent of 2 8800GTX's. That definately beats a 3870X2 in my books."

Whether it is or not, you changed what he said to "beat" and "better". In about a dozen further posts, this could change to "totally anihilate SLI'd 8800GTX's", correct?

Why you decided to put words in his mouth eludes me (unless he actually said this somewhere else in the thread), regardless of whether he is correct or incorrect.

You think I'm nitpicking? No. This is how flame wars start. Do not misquote people, then go on a tirade about it.

I just don't know what's so hard to understand: Even two 9600's will beat out a 3870X2.

The 9800GX2 is supposed to have two of nVidia's best cores. How that could fail to beat AMD's top card seems impossible to me.

I've owned ATI cards in the past (9700Pro, X800Pro, several others), and really I used to hold some brand loyalty with them. When I purchased my 8800GTS, they really had nothing reasonable to compete. My options were an X1900 card or else the 8800GTS. That's how much of a hole they've had to dig out of over the past couple of years. An enthusiast who prefers their cards chose to go with the competition (along with many others, I'm sure). :beer:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i AM going to wait and see ... for me, it has always been "bang for buck" ... if GX2 is $450 i am all over it .. if it is $650 and "only" has +33% improvement over my rig or an Ultra, forget it ...

my rig is "fine" for playing DX10 games at 16x10
["sweet 16" :heart:]

... i just want "better" ... IF i can get it for ~$500 [-$350 for my current setup]

GX2 has to "impress" me to even buy and/or keep it
--or it IS "worth waiting" for r700 for my situation

otoh, if i had a *single* 2900xt [with no upgrade path that i took with Xfire] .. i might be getting really "desperate" about now.

I've just gotta chime in here, without knowing your financial situation whatsoever...

I really think you should wait until the next major generation of GPUs before you upgrade. You currently have two current-gen upper-midrange cards.

What's the rest of your rig like? What CPU are you using?

Really if you're intent on doing anything with your current setup, the only thing I would consider would be a pair of 9600GTs as you may in fact come close to breaking even (and you'll cut down on your power consumption/heat output).

Essentially I'm saying that for you it's "worth waiting" for R700/G200 no matter what (almost). :Q

:beer: