Whats the 4000 series bring to the table and when

[Tempered81]

I would choose crossfire x 3870x2's for the price of 850 bucks. the only setup that competes with this from nvidia is tri sli of gtx or ultra g80. (until march31rst) And the nvidia solution costs 1800 bucks. BUT you can grab 3 8800gtx g80s from 900 bucks right now, so that makes it pretty competitive as well.

I'd say 3 8800gtx is right on par with 2 3870x2's. in the anand review, 2 3870x2's were used with a phenom and pitted against 3 ultras on a 3.3ghz qx9650 penryn.

i think a fair estimate of equality would be running a q6600/e8400 setup & 2 x 3870X2's = 3 x 8800GTX's (this is just a guess as I cannot find a fairly matched review yet)

 

[NinjaJedi]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: jaredpace
i think he's just asking for info on the RV770 4870 and 4870x2. check that other topic about gx2 vs. gtx vs. x2

I don't need benchmarks for any of the above. It's either already a fact or pure common sense!

How can it be fact without benchmarks to back it up? I think by common sense you mean fanboyism.

So far I have only seen 1 benchmark (3dmark06) compairing the 9800GX2 to the 3870X2 and the 3870X2 won that.

Mabe you missed this post?

Quote:

Where do you see unfounded speculation?

3870 gets owned by 8800gt for about the same price and the 3850 gets owned by both the 8800gs and 9600gt for the same price or less.

Are you trying to say nvidia's 9800gx2 won't beat the 3870x2?
I've seen many of your posts ,I think your smarter then that?

This is a fact and it's happening now!
With the intraduction of the rest 9800 series it's gonna get worse.

We need a better ATI line up is what i'm saying. Better competition = better prices.

unquote


I'm no fanboy. I just state the facts.
8800gt has better price performance then the 3870
8800gs/9600gt destroys the 3850 and cheaper (8800gs) or same price (9600gt).

I highly dought Nvidia will release the 9800gx2 and not take the 3870x2's performance crown. You have to admit it, it wouldn't make sense.

So what im saying is...is there a 3875 or 3855 being released?
If not Ati is gonna get a woopen till the 4000 series correct?

Now it's all about 8xxx series cards.
I thought the whole point of this thread was to say the new NV cards coming out (9xxx) are going to kill the current ATI cards. That is unfounded speculation at this time. You can't claim "fact" yet without something to back it up.

So the *speculation* is that the 9800gt and 9800gtx will be way overpriced?

NO, the whole point of the thread was to see what was ati gonna do to answer to the 8800 series and the soon to be released 9000 series.

The point was how can Ati compete with the 9000 series when it's losing to the 8800 series still???

If Nvidia can put out a 9600gt for 151.00, don't you think the 9800's will be inexspensive also?? A 250/280$ 9800gt dosen't sound out of the question. Neither does a 350/380$ gtx (why would it be more then the 9800gx2). With the 9800gx2 at the 3870x2's 425/450$ price point.

Now thats speculation!! Appopin

If this speculation is any indacation those prices you listed would be wrong.
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7386.html
I would have to say they got it pretty close since they have confirmed the price of the 9800gx2
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7396.html
Also I still havn't seen a 9600gt for $151 yet.

 

[NinjaJedi]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
Oh, I see. I'm in the middle of a new system. Just waiting for the Q9450 Penryn and for 9800 series cards to surface to make a decision. They are both due out at the end of the month. Crysis made me make the upgrade. I had this system for 6 years!

Q9450 is due this month?
:Q

isn't it supposed to be $expensive$
- and i guess i am not keeping up, what is it's advantage over the current Wolfdales? i think i can use a Penryn also in my MB

and ... sorry for the detour

i am more inclined to say "wait and See" ... i think way too many of your pronouncements depend on unreleased product.

I read its gonna retail for 320.00$ or so at first.
I also heard it's supposed to be a monster overclocker like the e8500.
4+ ghz anyone? Oh yea!

Since this thread was about graphics cards I ask why would you want a quad CPU for a gaming rig? If this is any indication of performance in gaming between dual and quad CPU the dual is a better bet.

 

[NinjaJedi]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi
I think ATI has 3 things going for them right now that NV does not.
1. The expertise of AMD in driver development.
2. The ability to miss match cards for xfire.
3. Multiple monitor support in xfire.

#1 AMD has no experience in video driver development.

#2 The ability to mix cards is a bittersweet victory, because you wouldn't really want to. The slower card doesn't magically become faster, it still has to render every other frame. The faster card's multi GPU potential is diminished by pairing it with a slower card. The only exception to this would be the 3870X2 + a 3870.

#3 This is an advantage, but for people like me with only one monitor, not an issue.

I did not say video drivers.
What I meant by #1 was that ATI now has the resorces of AMD to add to their driver development. I guess my wording could have been better.

 

[bryanW1995]

9600gt is 151 plus shipping at microcenter, 158 shipped.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: nRollo

SLIGHTLY better driver support out of the box?

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...mance_update/page9.asp

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

I don't think DX10 Crysis is supported by CF yet!

As pointed out by Extelleron, that article is from Sept. 07. Is this what you were let back in for? To spread FUD like that?

A person such as yourself would have checked the date of that article...so I guess you posted that on purpose knowing the out-of-date conclusions. :disgust:

 

[NinjaJedi]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
9600gt is 151 plus shipping at microcenter, 158 shipped.

Cool. I don't know anyone who ever had a PNY product. They any good? Here is the link for anyone who wants it.
http://microcenter.com/single_...tml?product_id=0282050

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: jaredpace
i think he's just asking for info on the RV770 4870 and 4870x2. check that other topic about gx2 vs. gtx vs. x2

I don't need benchmarks for any of the above. It's either already a fact or pure common sense!

How can it be fact without benchmarks to back it up? I think by common sense you mean fanboyism.

So far I have only seen 1 benchmark (3dmark06) compairing the 9800GX2 to the 3870X2 and the 3870X2 won that.

Mabe you missed this post?

Quote:

Where do you see unfounded speculation?

3870 gets owned by 8800gt for about the same price and the 3850 gets owned by both the 8800gs and 9600gt for the same price or less.

Are you trying to say nvidia's 9800gx2 won't beat the 3870x2?
I've seen many of your posts ,I think your smarter then that?

This is a fact and it's happening now!
With the intraduction of the rest 9800 series it's gonna get worse.

We need a better ATI line up is what i'm saying. Better competition = better prices.

unquote


I'm no fanboy. I just state the facts.
8800gt has better price performance then the 3870
8800gs/9600gt destroys the 3850 and cheaper (8800gs) or same price (9600gt).

I highly dought Nvidia will release the 9800gx2 and not take the 3870x2's performance crown. You have to admit it, it wouldn't make sense.

So what im saying is...is there a 3875 or 3855 being released?
If not Ati is gonna get a woopen till the 4000 series correct?

Now it's all about 8xxx series cards.
I thought the whole point of this thread was to say the new NV cards coming out (9xxx) are going to kill the current ATI cards. That is unfounded speculation at this time. You can't claim "fact" yet without something to back it up.

So the *speculation* is that the 9800gt and 9800gtx will be way overpriced?

NO, the whole point of the thread was to see what was ati gonna do to answer to the 8800 series and the soon to be released 9000 series.

The point was how can Ati compete with the 9000 series when it's losing to the 8800 series still???

If Nvidia can put out a 9600gt for 151.00, don't you think the 9800's will be inexspensive also?? A 250/280$ 9800gt dosen't sound out of the question. Neither does a 350/380$ gtx (why would it be more then the 9800gx2). With the 9800gx2 at the 3870x2's 425/450$ price point.

Now thats speculation!! Appopin

If this speculation is any indacation those prices you listed would be wrong.
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7386.html
I would have to say they got it pretty close since they have confirmed the price of the 9800gx2
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7396.html
Also I still havn't seen a 9600gt for $151 yet.

Sorry here ya go 9600gt 151.00

http://microcenter.com/single_...tml?product_id=0282050

I hope that 9800gx2 price is wrong.

 

[bryanW1995]

pny is a 2nd rate nvidia manufacturer. 9600gt is probably 10-15 more for evga/bfg/xfx/etc.

happymedium, what are you hoping 9800gx2 pricing will be? nordichardware seems pretty certain that $599 is the price.

 

[toslat]

Originally posted by: Giacomo

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
If you bought a 2900xt for, uh, I dunno, say $320 or so with orange box you can xfire it with a $150 2900pro 256 bit right now.

Or even better and more actual: if you buy a pricey HD3870 X2 today, and you fall in love with a 4870 in Summer, you don't have to say goodbye to your beautiful and still powerful card: you buy the 4870, stick it togethet with the 3870 X2, and enjoy like crazy.

It's not only about FPS, it's about satisfaction and having respect for your money too.

Giacomo

I quite agree that this is the strongest argument for crossfire (hence my reference to 'inertia' in my earlier post). The buyer's existing investment in the 3870X2 will work against changing to Nvidia, rather it would incline the user to buy another 3xxx/4xxx card.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

Why are you linking to old benchmarks performed close to 1/2 a year ago?

Mostly because the person I was replying to said "CF is only slightly worse out of box" and at that point in time (5 months ago) most of the games they tested in that review had CF issues.

Weren't many games released yesterday, no articles to link to.

 

[Tempered81]

yah reporting really old news is biased. currently these cat 8.3's are Roxxing the Soxors of ATI owners. that'd be like saying, "nvidia driver support for tri-sli is practically non-existant on these Detonator 48.2 drivers, sheesh!"

edit: biased, but not that you don't have a right to be. who else here owns a tri-sli or Crossfire X quad GPU rig?

 

[toslat]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

Why are you linking to old benchmarks performed close to 1/2 a year ago?

Mostly because the person I was replying to said "CF is only slightly worse out of box" and at that point in time (5 months ago) most of the games they tested in that review had CF issues.

Weren't many games released yesterday, no articles to link to.

Its not the games that have changed, its the drivers! and the person that u replied to didnt make the post 5 months ago.

Summary: Those benchmarks are outdated for the discussion at hand

BTW as for game releases Link

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo

SLIGHTLY better driver support out of the box?

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...mance_update/page9.asp

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

I don't think DX10 Crysis is supported by CF yet!

As pointed out by Extelleron, that article is from Sept. 07. Is this what you were let back in for? To spread FUD like that?

A person such as yourself would have checked the date of that article...so I guess you posted that on purpose knowing the out-of-date conclusions. :disgust:

Rollo should apologize to everybody for spreading lies. If not ban him again.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo

SLIGHTLY better driver support out of the box?

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...mance_update/page9.asp

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

I don't think DX10 Crysis is supported by CF yet!

As pointed out by Extelleron, that article is from Sept. 07. Is this what you were let back in for? To spread FUD like that?

A person such as yourself would have checked the date of that article...so I guess you posted that on purpose knowing the out-of-date conclusions. :disgust:

Rollo should apologize to everybody for spreading lies. If not ban him again.

If you have a problem with *ANY Member* ... please post it in Personal Forum Issues or email/PM the mod account or the administrator
- NOT here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

calling out a forum member is a bannable offence
-reply to the POST, not to the member in a personal attack [like calling someone a LIAR]

... and you example is bad, anyway ... imo he did nothing out of the 'ordinary' ... he used an older example to make a valid point

thank-you for your attention ... now hopefully back on topic

 

[SorryImLate]

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
9600gt is 151 plus shipping at microcenter, 158 shipped.

Cool. I don't know anyone who ever had a PNY product. They any good? Here is the link for anyone who wants it.
http://microcenter.com/single_...tml?product_id=0282050

Price change $189

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: SorryImLate

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
9600gt is 151 plus shipping at microcenter, 158 shipped.

Cool. I don't know anyone who ever had a PNY product. They any good? Here is the link for anyone who wants it.
http://microcenter.com/single_...tml?product_id=0282050

Price change $189

went up 40 bucks. those who got in early were lucky;0

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo

SLIGHTLY better driver support out of the box?

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...mance_update/page9.asp

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

I don't think DX10 Crysis is supported by CF yet!

As pointed out by Extelleron, that article is from Sept. 07. Is this what you were let back in for? To spread FUD like that?

A person such as yourself would have checked the date of that article...so I guess you posted that on purpose knowing the out-of-date conclusions. :disgust:

Rollo should apologize to everybody for spreading lies. If not ban him again.

How about instead of apologizing I reinforce my original point with other articles showing ATi not having Crossfire working for games right away?

Here you go:

2/18/08 wasn't "five months ago"

On the other hand, it was either equal to or slower than the single-chip ATI Radeon HD 3870 in seven out of the nineteen tests, namely in Call of Duty 4, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Lost Planet: Extreme Condition, Tomb Raider: Legend, Hellgate: London, Gothic 3 and Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts. So, in some of these games only one of the new card?s GPUs was employed, and in others CrossFire technology didn?t work altogether.

Whether these have been fixed since this driver revision is entirely beside the point- you don't see SLi tests where 7 popular games don't work.

How about AnandTech?
Guess it wasn't working "out of the box" in Nov either

The other problem with CrossFire is that it simply doesn't always work, so a pair of 3850s is not necessarily a better option than a single 8800 GT or GTX. Case in point would be the two other games that we wanted to include here: Quake Wars and Call of Duty 4, both gave us lower frame rates with CF enabled than without.

So you see Janooo, I politely proved my point that Crossfire doesn't offer "out of the box" performance in popular games and CF users have to wait without posting FUD or violating TOS at all.

It's this kind of information that should be considered valuable on forums, not attacked.

have a nice evening!

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo

SLIGHTLY better driver support out of the box?

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...mance_update/page9.asp

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

I don't think DX10 Crysis is supported by CF yet!

As pointed out by Extelleron, that article is from Sept. 07. Is this what you were let back in for? To spread FUD like that?

A person such as yourself would have checked the date of that article...so I guess you posted that on purpose knowing the out-of-date conclusions. :disgust:

Rollo should apologize to everybody for spreading lies. If not ban him again.

How about instead of apologizing I reinforce my original point with other articles showing ATi not having Crossfire working for games right away?

Here you go:

2/18/08 wasn't "five months ago"

On the other hand, it was either equal to or slower than the single-chip ATI Radeon HD 3870 in seven out of the nineteen tests, namely in Call of Duty 4, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Lost Planet: Extreme Condition, Tomb Raider: Legend, Hellgate: London, Gothic 3 and Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts. So, in some of these games only one of the new card?s GPUs was employed, and in others CrossFire technology didn?t work altogether.

Whether these have been fixed since this driver revision is entirely beside the point- you don't see SLi tests where 7 popular games don't work.

How about AnandTech?
Guess it wasn't working "out of the box" in Nov either

The other problem with CrossFire is that it simply doesn't always work, so a pair of 3850s is not necessarily a better option than a single 8800 GT or GTX. Case in point would be the two other games that we wanted to include here: Quake Wars and Call of Duty 4, both gave us lower frame rates with CF enabled than without.

So you see Janooo, I politely proved my point that Crossfire doesn't offer "out of the box" performance in popular games and CF users have to wait without posting FUD or violating TOS at all.

It's this kind of information that should be considered valuable on forums, not attacked.

have a nice evening!

It's interesting that the results you are finding directly contradict both Anandtech and Firingsquad's own testing of the HD 3870 X2 a month earlier, back in January:

Enemy Territory: QW, scaling is not good but it is there (21% @ 2560x1600).

CoD4, 2560x1600 4xAA/16xAF, 3870 X2 scales perfectly and X2 is 91% faster than the 3870.

From Firingsquad's initial review... http://www.firingsquad.com/har..._performance/page6.asp

HD 3870 X2 sees great scaling in both CoH DX9 & DX10.

Lost Planet, once agan, great scaling from 3870 -> 3870 X2. No problems there.

The other 3 I cannot comment on, but I know that Apoppin has played Hellgate and he seems to have no troubles w/ his HD 2900 CF setup.

Not accusing Xbitlabs of anything but their results seem to be a bit skewed as other reviews seem to have no troubles in the games that they are mentioning. Nice job of cherry picking results.

 

[BFG10K]

At any rate, ANY quote you make is outdated by the next driver set that AMD releases.

As an example, Stalker performance appears to be fixed in Cat 8.3.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo

SLIGHTLY better driver support out of the box?

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...mance_update/page9.asp

Unfortunately, CrossFire compatibility is still an issue for AMD. New games like BioShock and World in Conflict don't support CrossFire at this time, and Lost Planet and Quake Wars have graphical glitches.

I don't think DX10 Crysis is supported by CF yet!

As pointed out by Extelleron, that article is from Sept. 07. Is this what you were let back in for? To spread FUD like that?

A person such as yourself would have checked the date of that article...so I guess you posted that on purpose knowing the out-of-date conclusions. :disgust:

Rollo should apologize to everybody for spreading lies. If not ban him again.

How about instead of apologizing I reinforce my original point with other articles showing ATi not having Crossfire working for games right away?

Here you go:

2/18/08 wasn't "five months ago"

On the other hand, it was either equal to or slower than the single-chip ATI Radeon HD 3870 in seven out of the nineteen tests, namely in Call of Duty 4, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Lost Planet: Extreme Condition, Tomb Raider: Legend, Hellgate: London, Gothic 3 and Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts. So, in some of these games only one of the new card?s GPUs was employed, and in others CrossFire technology didn?t work altogether.

Whether these have been fixed since this driver revision is entirely beside the point- you don't see SLi tests where 7 popular games don't work.

How about AnandTech?
Guess it wasn't working "out of the box" in Nov either

The other problem with CrossFire is that it simply doesn't always work, so a pair of 3850s is not necessarily a better option than a single 8800 GT or GTX. Case in point would be the two other games that we wanted to include here: Quake Wars and Call of Duty 4, both gave us lower frame rates with CF enabled than without.

So you see Janooo, I politely proved my point that Crossfire doesn't offer "out of the box" performance in popular games and CF users have to wait without posting FUD or violating TOS at all.

It's this kind of information that should be considered valuable on forums, not attacked.

have a nice evening!

It's interesting that the results you are finding directly contradict both Anandtech and Firingsquad's own testing of the HD 3870 X2 a month earlier, back in January:

Enemy Territory: QW, scaling is not good but it is there (21% @ 2560x1600).

CoD4, 2560x1600 4xAA/16xAF, 3870 X2 scales perfectly and X2 is 91% faster than the 3870.

From Firingsquad's initial review... http://www.firingsquad.com/har..._performance/page6.asp

HD 3870 X2 sees great scaling in both CoH DX9 & DX10.

Lost Planet, once agan, great scaling from 3870 -> 3870 X2. No problems there.

The other 3 I cannot comment on, but I know that Apoppin has played Hellgate and he seems to have no troubles w/ his HD 2900 CF setup.

Not accusing Xbitlabs of anything but their results seem to be a bit skewed as other reviews seem to have no troubles in the games that they are mentioning. Nice job of cherry picking results.

QFT. I was just about to post the X2 review from AT showing even in CoD that scaling IS working and in fact is working for 4 GPUs. Only Crysis was not scaling to 4 GPUs.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

At any rate, ANY quote you make is outdated by the next driver set that AMD releases.

As an example, Stalker performance appears to be fixed in Cat 8.3.

it was fixed for me way back when ... it worked on the first patch, as i remember ... and performance just steadily increased from then on.

i remember you guys with nvidia GPUs had problems with enabling dynamic lighting on STALKER although i think i got it working on my GTS640-OC ... how long did it take for nvidia to finally fix it for everyone?

 

[BFG10K]

it was fixed for me way back when ... it worked on the first patch, as i remember ... and performance just steadily increased from then on.

Performance on ATi was abysmal compared to nVidia, especially with Crossfire. 8.3 is the first driver I've seen where performance is where it should be.

i remember you guys with nvidia GPUs had problems with enabling dynamic lighting on STALKER although i think i got it working on my GTS640-OC ... how long did it take for nvidia to finally fix it for everyone?

I don't recall having that issue on either my GTS or Ultra.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BFG10K

At any rate, ANY quote you make is outdated by the next driver set that AMD releases.

As an example, Stalker performance appears to be fixed in Cat 8.3.

it was fixed for me way back when ... it worked on the first patch, as i remember ... and performance just steadily increased from then on.

i remember you guys with nvidia GPUs had problems with enabling dynamic lighting on STALKER although i think i got it working on my GTS640-OC ... how long did it take for nvidia to finally fix it for everyone?

I've never had any troubles that I can remember playing STALKER on an 8800GTS 640MB and now an 8800GT, under Vista 32-bit.

I think he is talking about improving STALKER performance, which has been trouble for the HD 2000/3000 series since release.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BFG10K

At any rate, ANY quote you make is outdated by the next driver set that AMD releases.

As an example, Stalker performance appears to be fixed in Cat 8.3.

it was fixed for me way back when ... it worked on the first patch, as i remember ... and performance just steadily increased from then on.

i remember you guys with nvidia GPUs had problems with enabling dynamic lighting on STALKER although i think i got it working on my GTS640-OC ... how long did it take for nvidia to finally fix it for everyone?

I've never had any troubles that I can remember playing STALKER on an 8800GTS 640MB and now an 8800GT, under Vista 32-bit.

I think he is talking about improving STALKER performance, which has been trouble for the HD 2000/3000 series since release.

i really don't remember for sure - that IS why i am asking

search is messed up for the archives ... i SEEM to remember posts in SW/Games that pointed to issues with nvidia cards and dynamic lighting .. and i further thought that some of them were from BFG ... i'd like his clarification

i had NO problems - except slow performance - it was always 'playable' - first on my x1950p/512M and then shortly on my 2900xt; i ALSO had a GTS640-OC with no real issues ...

a lot of games have passed since then
.. and a lot of posts and issues