What do you think of restaurants who demand a tip?

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
Nik, you dont yet understand what we are saying. A waiter/waitress's paycheck is almost nothing.

THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM. That's the waiter's problem because he chooses to stay there instead of get a better job. It's that simple.

An average hourly rate of $2.30 is paid to employees.

What's your point? If you have a problem with that, get it changed. Make the government raise the minimum wage for the food industry since they think that the food industry is special enough to have it's own minimum wage.

After deductions that an employer must take, that $2.30 is depleted to almost nothing.

Yes, I know what you're trying to say (read: lie) here. The amount taken out is a percentage, not a flat rate, so it doesn't matter how little or how much they're getting paid; the employer isn't taking 100% so the employee has to be getting something.

Taking your order, bring you your food, giving you at least one smile, refilling your drinks, accomodating your needs...that should generate at least 15%.

Nope, that's what they're paid to do.

Goddamnit, nobody's answered my question. If they're not paid to take your order, bring you your food, refil your drinks, accommodate your needs, etc., then WHAT ARE THEY BEING PAID TO DO?

That $2.30 might compensate for "sidejobs" that are generally easy and quick. Cleaning silverware, preparing settings, etc.

:laugh: oh man you've never actually been a waiter, have you. I'd love for you to stand around doing "side jobs" like only cleaning silverware, only prepairing place settings, and not taking orders and servicing customers - I'd love to see how long you keep your job!! :laugh:MFAO!

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm still laughing about this

 

[MommysLittleMonster]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
Nik, you dont yet understand what we are saying. A waiter/waitress's paycheck is almost nothing.

THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM. That's the waiter's problem because he chooses to stay there instead of get a better job. It's that simple.

An average hourly rate of $2.30 is paid to employees.

What's your point? If you have a problem with that, get it changed. Make the government raise the minimum wage for the food industry since they think that the food industry is special enough to have it's own minimum wage.

After deductions that an employer must take, that $2.30 is depleted to almost nothing.

Yes, I know what you're trying to say (read: lie) here. The amount taken out is a percentage, not a flat rate, so it doesn't matter how little or how much they're getting paid; the employer isn't taking 100% so the employee has to be getting something.

Taking your order, bring you your food, giving you at least one smile, refilling your drinks, accomodating your needs...that should generate at least 15%.

Nope, that's what they're paid to do.

Goddamnit, nobody's answered my question. If they're not paid to take your order, bring you your food, refil your drinks, accommodate your needs, etc., then WHAT ARE THEY BEING PAID TO DO?

That $2.30 might compensate for "sidejobs" that are generally easy and quick. Cleaning silverware, preparing settings, etc.

:laugh: oh man you've never actually been a waiter, have you. I'd love for you to stand around doing "side jobs" like only cleaning silverware, only prepairing place settings, and not taking orders and servicing customers - I'd love to see how long you keep your job!! :laugh:MFAO!

I am a P/T waiter and a student. I work about 2 days a week and I average around $20/hour give or take. The resturaunt is a fairly upscale one. I have to work tomorrow morning.

It's been fun dancing with you Nik.

Night.

 

[timcheng00]

My God Nik, you are dense. Let's make an economic argument here. First, your argument that restaurants make crazy profit margins and thus should be able to fairly compensate waiters/waitresses without relying on tipping is ludicrous. If this were true everyone would be opening restaurants, we wouldn't see restaurants failing, etc. One of the first things you learn in microeconomics is that in the long run economic profit is zero. So the owners pay their workers $2.30 an hour and have them rely on tips. You would magically change this how? Have the owners sacrifice part of their "astronomical" profit to make up the difference? They'd all go out of business. Really. What would happen instead if Congress suddenly passes a law outlawing tipping is that the price of your food will go up 20%. Which would you prefer? Being required to pay this "extra" because it is actually part of the bill, or having the choice of complying with customs and tipping, or being an a--hole and not? The only way I can rationalize your position is if you'll admit that you wouldn't mind seeing a 15-20% increase in all menu prices if we were to get rid of tipping, because that is the only other way the restaurant business will run. If so, and only if so, I say fine, you dislike the principle of tipping that's a perfectly acceptable opinion to have

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
I am a P/T waiter and a student. I work about 2 days a week and I average around $20/hour give or take. The resturaunt is a fairly upscale one. I have to work tomorrow morning.

It's been fun dancing with you Nik.

Night.

G'night, man. Sweet dreams. Good luck trying to force your customers to pay you to give them the service they deserve. Hopefully your customers are all dumb and don't realize service people like you are the mafia of the customer service industry. :thumbsup:

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: Nik
It's a lie, though, because I know that my resolve for the customer's needs doesn't change based on how much I get. They're the customer and I work my ass off just as much for a $300,000 order as I do a $60 order. It's just how I am and if I can be that way, then so can others. It's not my fault that the employer hires half-wits with no work ethic.

I presume in your line of work you stand to benefit from repeat business though. So that person spending the $60 one time, just may spend $300k the next. If a waiter's pay doesn't fluxuate regardless of the service he provides, then where is his incentive to go the extra mile?

And I will say that I agree, to some extent, that the way things are aren't ideal. The way that you pay less for the product/service, but are expected to tip to make up for that savings, and thus allowing the employer's to pay their employees less, is inferior, and subject to many more unwanted variabled than just charging more, allowing the company to make the same level of profit, and pay their employees more.

BUT! That's NOT the way it is. And by your silent rebellion, you're only hurting the lowly waiter/waitress, and aren't in any way hurting the establishment or the practice of tipping. Tipping is a custom here in the US, and it would be MUCH easier for you to just spend the dollar or two extra (whatever the tip may be), heck, any tip is better than no tip, and not make it such a big deal. Since is a few bucks really gonna break you? (no it won't break the waiter/waitress either most likely, but when you get a string of stiffs, that does add up).

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: timcheng00
My God Nik, you are dense. Let's make an economic argument here. First, your argument that restaurants make crazy profit margins and thus should be able to fairly compensate waiters/waitresses without relying on tipping is ludicrous. If this were true everyone would be opening restaurants, we wouldn't see restaurants failing, etc. One of the first things you learn in microeconomics is that in the long run economic profit is zero. So the owners pay their workers $2.30 an hour and have them rely on tips. You would magically change this how? Have the owners sacrifice part of their "astronomical" profit to make up the difference? They'd all go out of business. Really. What would happen instead if Congress suddenly passes a law outlawing tipping is that the price of your food will go up 20%. Which would you prefer? Being required to pay this "extra" because it is actually part of the bill, or having the choice of complying with customs and tipping, or being an a--hole and not? The only way I can rationalize your position is if you'll admit that you wouldn't mind seeing a 15-20% increase in all menu prices if we were to get rid of tipping, because that is the only other way the restaurant business will run. If so, and only if so, I say fine, you dislike the principle of tipping that's a perfectly acceptable opinion to have

blah blah blah blah blah

I would much rather pay what's on the bill, required as the price of the item and getting the service I deserve as a paying customer, instead of getting sh|t service unless I find some sliver of giving-a-sh|t in my heart whether the service person is making enough money to pay bills, whether the food's expensive or not.

Bottom line? It ain't my responsibility to put money in the hands of the employee. It's my responsibility to pay the bill. It's the service person's responsibility to give me good service, the service I deserve as a customer. It's management's responsibility to pay the employee for their services. It's the employee's responsibility to provide those services and accept their paycheck as their only required source of income or get a different job.

I refuse to succumb to this nazi, gestapo bullsh|t of forced tipping, "strongly suggested" tipping influenced by crappy service unless I tip, or the idea that customer service is not required in a customer service job.

Period.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: OCNewbiewhere is his incentive to go the extra mile?

Too many people here have disgustingly low work ethics. THAT is the incentive. The employer needs to fire people who aren't motivated to DO THEIR JOB, which IS customer service.

I don't give a crap who's suffering because I refuse to submit to a completely ass-backwards system. It's not my problem.

It's a good thing we live in a country where I have the freedom to tell the damn waiter to go fvck himself when he gives me a bad look for no tip. Want more money you greedy bastard?

GET - A - DIFFERENT - FVCKING - JOB

Nobody's forcing you to stay there and suffer.

</thread>

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: Nik
Bottom line? It ain't my responsibility to put money in the hands of the employee. It's my responsibility to pay the bill. It's the service person's responsibility to give me good service, the service I deserve as a customer. It's management's responsibility to pay the employee for their services. It's the employee's responsibility to provide those services and accept their paycheck as their only required source of income or get a different job.

You're right, other than all they're required to give you is "adequate" service. Now, who's to say what they would equal. Also, it's only legal to pay these folks $2.30/hr. or whatever, because of the nature of the job, and the custom of tipping. Nobody would work at these places for $2.30 an hour. You're just being incredibly stubborn, and for no real good reason. The custom works.... it's a valid system.... is it ideal and the easiest way to pay for goods/services, and know beforehand exactly what you'll spend? No. But fortunately you're in the minority for having such an issue with this, and other people get by just fine adhering to the customary practice of tipping.

You're kidding yourself if you think your actions in anyway are going to change the way things are in this instance. I don't think you really care though, about change, you just want to be right, and aren't concerned about who you screw over in the process, unfortunately.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: OCNewbie

Originally posted by: Nik
Bottom line? It ain't my responsibility to put money in the hands of the employee. It's my responsibility to pay the bill. It's the service person's responsibility to give me good service, the service I deserve as a customer. It's management's responsibility to pay the employee for their services. It's the employee's responsibility to provide those services and accept their paycheck as their only required source of income or get a different job.

You're right, other than all they're required to give you is "adequate" service. Now, who's to say what they would equal. Also, it's only legal to pay these folks $2.30/hr. or whatever, because of the nature of the job, and the custom of tipping. Nobody would work at these places for $2.30 an hour. You're just being incredibly stubborn, and for no real good reason. The custom works.... it's a valid system.... is it ideal and the easiest way to pay for goods/services, and know beforehand exactly what you'll spend? No. But fortunately you're in the minority for having such an issue with this, and other people get by just fine adhering to the customary practice of tipping.

You're kidding yourself if you think your actions in anyway are going to change the way things are in this instance. I don't think you really care though, about change, you just want to be right, and aren't concerned about who you screw over in the process, unfortunately.

Be still my bleeding heart. :roll:

Do you not understand that it's a "minimum wage" not a "maximum wage"? It's the employer's fault for only offering that little and it's the employee's fault for accepting the job. You're talking like the employer isn't allowed to pay more than $2.50, which would also be a lie if that's what you're trying to say.

They are the only two who are responsible for the amount that the employee gets paid.

Christ.

It's such a simple concept.

I frankly don't give a crap whether my actions directly result in the change of the entire food industry or not. I simply refuse to participate because it's all a bunch of fvcked up horse sh|t.

 

[OCNewbie]

Like I said, unreasonably stubborn =)

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Maybe so, but I'm still right.

 

[Buttzilla]

haha what a great read everybody. it's always fun to read stuff like this cause for every 9 people that believes in tips 1 doesn't. it' doesn't bother me as a waiter whatsoever because that's expected in the business. you give the best service as possible across the board and hope that the good tippers will average out the bad tippers. although the concept to tipping is always debatable i do believe that it's a part of the industry these days, just like bonus's for a regular full time job.

they are incentives. every job has incentives and those incentives are what drives people to work in those industries. if a doctor wasn't paid 200-500k a year do you think there will be alot of doctors out there?

but i do agree with waggy though, bad service is bad service hands down. i've been busy at my restaurant and recieved a penny cause i've neglected a table or two and there's no need to get mad or whine/b!tch about it cause you can't win them all.

anywho, to each his own. and thanks nik for keeping it real. everybody, lighten up.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Ya know... it's actually quite hard to accept that a serious reply came from someone with a username like that, but I'm trying. :laugh:

 

[Buttzilla]

Originally posted by: Nik
Ya know... it's actually quite hard to accept that a serious reply came from someone with a username like that, but I'm trying. :laugh:

i got a big butt. the girls like it...gets better tips also

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Buttzilla

Originally posted by: Nik
Ya know... it's actually quite hard to accept that a serious reply came from someone with a username like that, but I'm trying. :laugh:

i got a big butt. the girls like it...gets better tips also

Okay, Mr. J-Lo.

 

[AutumnRayne]

Personally I give a tip that reflects the kind of service I received from the waiter/waitress. If the service was acceptable, I leave an acceptable tip. If it was excellent then I leave more, however if the service is terrible I leave nothing. I will pay you according to how well you treat me. Simple as that.

I do find it offensive when someone that has given me extremely poor service still has the gall to expect me to leave them a tip.:|

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: timcheng00
My God Nik, you are dense. Let's make an economic argument here. First, your argument that restaurants make crazy profit margins and thus should be able to fairly compensate waiters/waitresses without relying on tipping is ludicrous. If this were true everyone would be opening restaurants, we wouldn't see restaurants failing, etc. One of the first things you learn in microeconomics is that in the long run economic profit is zero. So the owners pay their workers $2.30 an hour and have them rely on tips. You would magically change this how? Have the owners sacrifice part of their "astronomical" profit to make up the difference? They'd all go out of business. Really. What would happen instead if Congress suddenly passes a law outlawing tipping is that the price of your food will go up 20%. Which would you prefer? Being required to pay this "extra" because it is actually part of the bill, or having the choice of complying with customs and tipping, or being an a--hole and not? The only way I can rationalize your position is if you'll admit that you wouldn't mind seeing a 15-20% increase in all menu prices if we were to get rid of tipping, because that is the only other way the restaurant business will run. If so, and only if so, I say fine, you dislike the principle of tipping that's a perfectly acceptable opinion to have

LMFAO. If that was true, there wouldn't be any restaurants in Oregon (where Nik and I live) since ALL restaurant employees in Oregon are paid the state minimum wage of 7.25 or whatever it is now. Oregon is one of like 7 or 8 states that do NOT allow restaurants to pay less than minimum wage. And the funny thing is that from what I've seen, restaurants in Oregon have the same or lower prices than what I've seen in other states. So obviously it is in fact possible to pay waitstaff minimum wage and still stay in business.

Personally, I tip well if the service is good even though the system is annoying. But anyone who feels sorry for the poor waiters is an idiot. Waiters at most restaurants make as much money as I do and my job actually requires skill, intelligence, and a college degree.

I have never heard of a restaurant demanding a tip though. Except for when there is a large party and they automatically add the tip. In that case, if the service is bad, I would just not include the tip part. It may be automatically added, but it certainly shouldn't be mandatory.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: DT4K
LMFAO. If that was true, there wouldn't be any restaurants in Oregon (where Nik and I live) since ALL restaurant employees in Oregon are paid the state minimum wage of 7.25 or whatever it is now. Oregon is one of like 7 or 8 states that do NOT allow restaurants to pay less than minimum wage. And the funny thing is that from what I've seen, restaurants in Oregon have the same or lower prices than what I've seen in other states. So obviously it is in fact possible to pay waitstaff minimum wage and still stay in business.

Personally, I tip well if the service is good even though the system is annoying. But anyone who feels sorry for the poor waiters is an idiot. Waiters at most restaurants make as much money as I do and my job actually requires skill, intelligence, and a college degree.

I have never heard of a restaurant demanding a tip though. Except for when there is a large party and they automatically add the tip. In that case, if the service is bad, I would just not include the tip part. It may be automatically added, but it certainly shouldn't be mandatory.

:thumbsup:

And, for the most part, it's good food too. Too bad it's full of those damn Californians though :laugh:

 

[DainBramaged]

This thread is pretty entertaining. I just had a few comments. First, I have worked at a restaurant for one year. I earn $3.90 an hour + tips. At the end of the night my tip average is usually around 20% after I tip out the bus boy and the bartender. Nik, while we allow all of our customers to tip whatever they feel appropriate and would never ask for a tip or even demand one for groups of X, we do get a feel for the customers. When somebody comes in and doesn't tip or tips very little (usually under 10%) we remember those customers. The waiters job is to ensure that a customer gets his drinks and food and to collect the payment. It is left to the waiter to decide what priority the customer is. If I had you at a table and I remembered that you don't tip and I have one of my regular customers who tips me 25% or more, who do you think I am going to spend my time with? Sure, I'll make sure your steak gets to you because it's my job but it is going to spend more time in the window, your drinks will run out without being refilled as fast and you may sit around waiting for me to bring the check. You got your basic service because you got your food, drink and check, your previous tip amount, however, will be the determining factor as to how fast you get them. If you want quicker service, faster refills and quick checkout, tip me at least 10%. I am not going to demand it but I'll remember you.

Just out of curiosity Nik, do you ever tip and if so, how much for good service?

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: NikAnd, for the most part, it's good food too. Too bad it's full of those damn Californians though :laugh:

LOL. Did a californian cut you off on the sunset highway today or something?
You seem a bit hostile tonight.

I'll have to be careful. I'm driving a rental car with CA plates right now while my car is in the shop.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Just out of curiosity Nik, do you ever tip and if so, how much for good service?

Yes, I do tip. If I'm with Viper GTS, I tip 10%-15% just so he'll STFU and stop bitching at me for not being a tipping whore. I shouldn't, because it's my goddamn money and not his, but oh well. I guess I'm paying mafia-insurance on not being bitched out for it anymore. :laugh:

When I legitimately feel like a tip is in order, I usually tip a healthy amount, like 50%-100%. I think tipping a few dollars for good service (remember, good service != standard service) is an insult. If they worked for it, not just did their job for it, I like to give quite generously.

On a side note, DainBramaged, you are one of the people I described earlier who has a disgusting work ethic. I won't ever retain an employee that does not give every single client a 110% effort 100% of the time. That's just... how it should be. The client deserves no less, regardless of how much or how little they pay.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Just out of curiosity Nik, do you ever tip and if so, how much for good service?

Yes, I do tip. If I'm with Viper GTS, I tip 10%-15% just so he'll STFU and stop bitching at me for not being a tipping whore. I shouldn't, because it's my goddamn money and not his, but oh well. I guess I'm paying mafia-insurance on not being bitched out for it anymore. :laugh:

When I legitimately feel like a tip is in order, I usually tip a healthy amount, like 50%-100%. I think tipping a few dollars for good service (remember, good service != standard service) is an insult. If they worked for it, not just did their job for it, I like to give quite generously.

Hahah...one thing that I noticed all throughout this thread is that you never said that you don't tip but everyone seems to think that. Ah well, I am sure that I would get a tip out of you. :heart::lips:

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Just out of curiosity Nik, do you ever tip and if so, how much for good service?

Yes, I do tip. If I'm with Viper GTS, I tip 10%-15% just so he'll STFU and stop bitching at me for not being a tipping whore. I shouldn't, because it's my goddamn money and not his, but oh well. I guess I'm paying mafia-insurance on not being bitched out for it anymore. :laugh:

When I legitimately feel like a tip is in order, I usually tip a healthy amount, like 50%-100%. I think tipping a few dollars for good service (remember, good service != standard service) is an insult. If they worked for it, not just did their job for it, I like to give quite generously.

Hahah...one thing that I noticed all throughout this thread is that you never said that you don't tip but everyone seems to think that. Ah well, I am sure that I would get a tip out of you. :heart::lips:

I'm glad you noticed about everyone else's assumption. That shows that you're better than they are. That little attention to detail is what I'm talking about. While I don't know much anything else about the way you work, that actually says to me that you'd be a pretty good waiter. Maybe I should retract my previous work ethic statement? Maybe not. I still don't like the idea of rating what level of customer service to issue a client based on what he intends to pay.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Just out of curiosity Nik, do you ever tip and if so, how much for good service?

Yes, I do tip. If I'm with Viper GTS, I tip 10%-15% just so he'll STFU and stop bitching at me for not being a tipping whore. I shouldn't, because it's my goddamn money and not his, but oh well. I guess I'm paying mafia-insurance on not being bitched out for it anymore. :laugh:

When I legitimately feel like a tip is in order, I usually tip a healthy amount, like 50%-100%. I think tipping a few dollars for good service (remember, good service != standard service) is an insult. If they worked for it, not just did their job for it, I like to give quite generously.

Hahah...one thing that I noticed all throughout this thread is that you never said that you don't tip but everyone seems to think that. Ah well, I am sure that I would get a tip out of you. :heart::lips:

I'm glad you noticed about everyone else's assumption. That shows that you're better than they are. That little attention to detail is what I'm talking about. While I don't know much anything else about the way you work, that actually says to me that you'd be a pretty good waiter. Maybe I should retract my previous work ethic statement? Maybe not. I still don't like the idea of rating what level of customer service to issue a client based on what he intends to pay.

Well, note in my comments that I didn't say that I wouldn't do the work, I just said that I would prioritize the customers. I can honestly say that I have never given intentionally bad service to anybody, however, there are some customers that I don't spend as much time on as others. Especially the few minutes of free time that I have here and there. If I have old regulars, I will be there because IMO they are paying me to be there.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Good deal about not intentionally giving someone poor service. If you come to Oregon and I have a BBQ at my place, I'll require a tip to let you participate.

Actions driven by money and the lust for it == :thumbsdown: