What do you think of restaurants who demand a tip?

[diablofreak]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: waggy
So i should pay %20 of a bill for crappy service?!

Again a Tip is based on quality of service. IF they do crappy job they get a crappy tip. They do great they get a great tip.

Im not going to pay someone %20 for a crappy job.

if you think that is a poor display of character then that is your problem.

Quality of service will be rewarded by repeat visits to the establishment and further business, not giving in to this gestapo required hand-out bullsh|t.

Like I said, go to France. There they have mandatory service charges. Here we have voluntary service charges so you can be the judge of the quality of service. It isn't a handout, it is payment for a service rendered. The employer's paycheck doesn't cover that because everyone else but you pays for the service they recieve.

Good job, you're a rebel. You aren't like everyone else.

Go to china! you leave a tip they bend down on their knees and think you're a god! what's your point!

I'm from Hong Kong and came to nyc when i was a kid, when i went back a few years ago for fun and went around leaving tip for cabs, hotel bell boys, restaurants with standard american 15% you have to see their faces!

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: waggy
So i should pay %20 of a bill for crappy service?!

Again a Tip is based on quality of service. IF they do crappy job they get a crappy tip. They do great they get a great tip.

Im not going to pay someone %20 for a crappy job.

if you think that is a poor display of character then that is your problem.

Quality of service will be rewarded by repeat visits to the establishment and further business, not giving in to this gestapo required hand-out bullsh|t.

Like I said, go to France. There they have mandatory service charges. Here we have voluntary service charges so you can be the judge of the quality of service. It isn't a handout, it is payment for a service rendered. The employer's paycheck doesn't cover that because everyone else but you pays for the service they recieve.

Good job, you're a rebel. You aren't like everyone else.

LMFAO!! Yes, we all know that France is the world's best and most socially advanced nation.

omfg, I actually burst out laughing when I read that :laugh:

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: diablofreak

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: waggy
So i should pay %20 of a bill for crappy service?!

Again a Tip is based on quality of service. IF they do crappy job they get a crappy tip. They do great they get a great tip.

Im not going to pay someone %20 for a crappy job.

if you think that is a poor display of character then that is your problem.

Quality of service will be rewarded by repeat visits to the establishment and further business, not giving in to this gestapo required hand-out bullsh|t.

Like I said, go to France. There they have mandatory service charges. Here we have voluntary service charges so you can be the judge of the quality of service. It isn't a handout, it is payment for a service rendered. The employer's paycheck doesn't cover that because everyone else but you pays for the service they recieve.

Good job, you're a rebel. You aren't like everyone else.

Go to china! you leave a tip they bend down on their knees and think you're a god! what's your point!

I'm from Hong Kong and came to nyc when i was a kid, when i went back a few years ago for fun and went around leaving tip for cabs, hotel bell boys, restaurants with standard american 15% you have to see their faces!

True customer service. :thumbsup:

 

[chrisms]

Nik, you're arguement doesn't respond to anything I said. What I'm saying is that the system we have here in America is one of voluntary payment for customer service. It is still expected that you pay for that service. In other countries, they've dealt with people like you by making the service charge mandatory. You are abusing a system that the majority of us accept and take part in.

It reminds me of Homer Simpson skipping the donation basket at the Museum.. sure it's legal and you'll get away with it, but in no way is it ethical.

 

[dighn]

just wondering, if they abolished this tipping convention and simply raised everything by 15%, are you okay with that?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Actaeon
The paycheck does not pay for anything, again...

The money doesn't always cover expenses like Health Insurance and taxes. They get RAPED on taxes because they can "lie" about it, so the IRS charges them more than a regular job. I know for a fact my mother makes $0 every paycheck (and often owes some money) because of the health insurance provided.

Again IF the paycheck does not pay for anything then they need either a 2nd job or get a better paying job.

hmm If your mother is makeing $0 or even them oweing money then she has serious problems and should really think of another line of work.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Actaeon
The paycheck does not pay for anything, again...

The money doesn't always cover expenses like Health Insurance and taxes. They get RAPED on taxes because they can "lie" about it, so the IRS charges them more than a regular job. I know for a fact my mother makes $0 every paycheck (and often owes some money) because of the health insurance provided.

Do you think your mom is a special case because she's a waitress? Most people pay some or all of their health care. I pay 100% of my health insurance bill each month.

Anyone that is self employed gets raped on taxes. Do you know what your mother's tax rate is? Mine is 40.3% and I'm not making a six digit income so it's not because I'm rich.

Yet, I don't go around expecting my clients to tip me. I charge them a fee for my service, they agree and pay it. That's it.

Am I insensitive to restaurant workers? I worked in restaurants during my teenage years as a dishwasher/busboy making less than minimum wage. My mother and aunt have both worked many years as waitresses. I'm very familiar with the pay rates and how things work. What you aren't "getting" is the concept of a 'tip'.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: chrisms
Nik, you're arguement doesn't respond to anything I said. What I'm saying is that the system we have here in America is one of voluntary payment for customer service. It is still expected that you pay for that service. In other countries, they've dealt with people like you by making the service charge mandatory. You are abusing a system that the majority of us accept and take part in.

It reminds me of Homer Simpson skipping the donation basket at the Museum.. sure it's legal and you'll get away with it, but in no way is it ethical.

It's not voluntary when you get your food spit in if you don't tip, you moron. :roll: Tipping here is NOT voluntary, it's mandatory. I say fvck 'em. If they're too stupid to either live a life that can be supported by such a low income or get a different job, that ain't my problem and I refuse to tip based on the fact that they're too goddamn fvcking lazy to do anything about their sh|tty fvcked up life.

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: waggy
So i should pay %20 of a bill for crappy service?!

Again a Tip is based on quality of service. IF they do crappy job they get a crappy tip. They do great they get a great tip.

Im not going to pay someone %20 for a crappy job.

if you think that is a poor display of character then that is your problem.

Quality of service will be rewarded by repeat visits to the establishment and further business, not giving in to this gestapo required hand-out bullsh|t.

Like I said, go to France. There they have mandatory service charges. Here we have voluntary service charges so you can be the judge of the quality of service. It isn't a handout, it is payment for a service rendered. The employer's paycheck doesn't cover that because everyone else but you pays for the service they recieve.

Good job, you're a rebel. You aren't like everyone else.

LMFAO!! Yes, we all know that France is the world's best and most socially advanced nation.

omfg, I actually burst out laughing when I read that :laugh:

LMFAO!! France is exactly what happens when there are a few million Niks running around the country, not tipping for service. Instead of giving you the choice they make it mandatory.

France is your theory about food service put into action.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: dighn
just wondering, if they abolished this tipping convention and simply raised everything by 15%, are you okay with that?

Absolutely.

 

[diablofreak]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Actaeon
The paycheck does not pay for anything, again...

The money doesn't always cover expenses like Health Insurance and taxes. They get RAPED on taxes because they can "lie" about it, so the IRS charges them more than a regular job. I know for a fact my mother makes $0 every paycheck (and often owes some money) because of the health insurance provided.

Again IF the paycheck does not pay for anything then they need either a 2nd job or get a better paying job.

hmm If your mother is makeing $0 or even them oweing money then she has serious problems and should really think of another line of work.

amen and /thread

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: waggy
So i should pay %20 of a bill for crappy service?!

Again a Tip is based on quality of service. IF they do crappy job they get a crappy tip. They do great they get a great tip.

Im not going to pay someone %20 for a crappy job.

if you think that is a poor display of character then that is your problem.

Quality of service will be rewarded by repeat visits to the establishment and further business, not giving in to this gestapo required hand-out bullsh|t.

Like I said, go to France. There they have mandatory service charges. Here we have voluntary service charges so you can be the judge of the quality of service. It isn't a handout, it is payment for a service rendered. The employer's paycheck doesn't cover that because everyone else but you pays for the service they recieve.

Good job, you're a rebel. You aren't like everyone else.

LMFAO!! Yes, we all know that France is the world's best and most socially advanced nation.

omfg, I actually burst out laughing when I read that :laugh:

LMFAO!! France is exactly what happens when there are a few million Niks running around the country, not tipping for service. Instead of giving you the choice they make it mandatory.

France is your theory about food service put into action.

Uh, no. When you have a few million Nik's running around, you have a REASONABLE food industry with employers who understand that repeat business with flawless customer service is better than no repeat business and bullying the customers into tipping. You have employees who understand that it doesn't matter what your paycheck amount is -if you need more, you get another job. However, above all, you sacrifice absolutely zero customer service for any reason: Customer service is priority number 1.

And you'd have very, VERY happy customers.

 

[Actaeon]

Originally posted by: waggy

Again IF the paycheck does not pay for anything then they need either a 2nd job or get a better paying job.

hmm If your mother is makeing $0 or even them oweing money then she has serious problems and should really think of another line of work.

She earned enough to put me through college, put a roof over my head, and provide me with all the luxuries I have now (broadband and such). I appreciate her hard work, and it shows with the tips she gets from customers. Without those people, I wouldn't have the quality of life I have now. I appreciate quality service when I eat out, thats why I tip generously when the service is good.

She makes $0 from paychecks, but she gets money because of tips. Its all she has done for the past 20 years, and she does a great job. She has some of the best customer service I've seen, and would love to expect the same quality everywhere I eat, unfortunately I do not. She doesn't have the education to find anything other than an entry-level job anyway.

 

[MommysLittleMonster]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
Can we be a little specific when we are saying "Poor service."

What exactly do we agree upon to be "poor service?"

poor service ot me is if i have to wait more then 15 min for a drink refill. If I have ot wait more then 10 before they come to give me menu's for a order. If they screw up the meal etc.

I understand if they are busy then i give them more time.

I don't expect a cheerfull waitress. but do expect a hello. i understand that they may have rude costomers.

Consider this scenario. You dine out at a fairly decent retuaraunt. Not a chain. The waiter smiles, is friendly. You get a hello. He doesnt mess up with the order. You notice the resturaunt is busy. You get a little hungry waiting for entrees. The waiter is exceptional when it comes to refilling your beverage with the exception of your glass remaining empty once for a few minutes. The bill comes to $70. How much would you tip?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Actaeon

Originally posted by: waggy

Again IF the paycheck does not pay for anything then they need either a 2nd job or get a better paying job.

hmm If your mother is makeing $0 or even them oweing money then she has serious problems and should really think of another line of work.

She earned enough to put me through college, put a roof over my head, and provide me with all the luxuries I have now (broadband and such). I appreciate her hard work, and it shows with the tips she gets from customers. Without those people, I wouldn't have the quality of life I have now. I appreciate quality service when I eat out, thats why I tip generously when the service is good.

She makes $0 from paychecks, but she gets money because of tips. Its all she has done for the past 20 years, and she does a great job. She has some of the best customer service I've seen, and would love to expect the same quality everywhere I eat, unfortunately I do not. She doesn't have the education to find anything other than an entry-level job anyway.

If she's that good at a dead-end sh|tty job, it kinda makes you wonder what would have happened if a few things had gone differently earlier in her life, huh.

Bridge.

Again, it's not my responsibility to listen to the waitress's sob story on how she can't take care of her family very easily.

River.

I go in expecting service and paying for it by paying for the already-overpriced food, which I don't mind doing.

Jump.

I don't expect to be blindsided with dirty looks and crappy service when I don't tip.

Drown.

 

[MommysLittleMonster]

Hong Kong eh? That explains quite a bit.

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: waggy
So i should pay %20 of a bill for crappy service?!

Again a Tip is based on quality of service. IF they do crappy job they get a crappy tip. They do great they get a great tip.

Im not going to pay someone %20 for a crappy job.

if you think that is a poor display of character then that is your problem.

Quality of service will be rewarded by repeat visits to the establishment and further business, not giving in to this gestapo required hand-out bullsh|t.

Like I said, go to France. There they have mandatory service charges. Here we have voluntary service charges so you can be the judge of the quality of service. It isn't a handout, it is payment for a service rendered. The employer's paycheck doesn't cover that because everyone else but you pays for the service they recieve.

Good job, you're a rebel. You aren't like everyone else.

LMFAO!! Yes, we all know that France is the world's best and most socially advanced nation.

omfg, I actually burst out laughing when I read that :laugh:

LMFAO!! France is exactly what happens when there are a few million Niks running around the country, not tipping for service. Instead of giving you the choice they make it mandatory.

France is your theory about food service put into action.

Uh, no. When you have a few million Nik's running around, you have a REASONABLE food industry with employers who understand that repeat business with flawless customer service is better than no repeat business and bullying the customers into tipping. You have employees who understand that it doesn't matter what your paycheck amount is -if you need more, you get another job. However, above all, you sacrifice absolutely zero customer service for any reason: Customer service is priority number 1.

And you'd have very, VERY happy customers.

That's the theory, but what I'm saying is France is the actual result. Working at a pizza join (before I was a driver, just a prep cook) the managers and owners would get on a trip about improving customer service. It didn't happen because there is no incentive for the employee. Johhny Burgerflipper gets paid the same whether your burger is out in 5 minutes or 20 minutes. That's why fast food joints have crappy service, but at a nice restuarant you'll get the waiters bowing down to your every need.

 

[diablofreak]

i would do 15%
but its pointless giving out hypothetic scenarios. when the meal is down your stomach,. your looking at the bill, you think back the the whole experience and you think

good? 20%
normal? 15%
bad? 5-15%

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Actaeon

Originally posted by: waggy

Again IF the paycheck does not pay for anything then they need either a 2nd job or get a better paying job.

hmm If your mother is makeing $0 or even them oweing money then she has serious problems and should really think of another line of work.

She earned enough to put me through college, put a roof over my head, and provide me with all the luxuries I have now (broadband and such). I appreciate her hard work, and it shows with the tips she gets from customers. Without those people, I wouldn't have the quality of life I have now. I appreciate quality service when I eat out, thats why I tip generously when the service is good.

She makes $0 from paychecks, but she gets money because of tips. Its all she has done for the past 20 years, and she does a great job. She has some of the best customer service I've seen, and would love to expect the same quality everywhere I eat, unfortunately I do not. She doesn't have the education to find anything other than an entry-level job anyway.

Then she gets it. She does a great job and gets the tips if she does a crappy job she does not get the tips.


IF the waitress does a good job i give a 10% tip. if she does a great job i give 15-20% if they do a crappy job i give whatever i think is worht it. On a really really bad job i leave a penny.

Tipping should NEVER be mandatory but given for good service.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
Consider this scenario. You dine out at a fairly decent retuaraunt. Not a chain. The waiter smiles, is friendly. You get a hello. He doesnt mess up with the order. You notice the resturaunt is busy. You get a little hungry waiting for entrees. The waiter is exceptional when it comes to refilling your beverage with the exception of your glass remaining empty once for a few minutes. The bill comes to $70. How much would you tip?

Nothing. That's what I expect as standard service. That's THEIR JOB. If they want to go above and beyond their job, then I will consider tipping. Tell me, where in that scenario, did anyone go above and beyond their job requirements?

 

[diablofreak]

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
Hong Kong eh? That explains quite a bit.

yeah whatever :roll: im sure your *not* implying chinese people are cheap /sarcasm

and in france people aren't cheap? i work for a french company.

 

[Actaeon]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Actaeon
The paycheck does not pay for anything, again...

The money doesn't always cover expenses like Health Insurance and taxes. They get RAPED on taxes because they can "lie" about it, so the IRS charges them more than a regular job. I know for a fact my mother makes $0 every paycheck (and often owes some money) because of the health insurance provided.

Do you think your mom is a special case because she's a waitress? Most people pay some or all of their health care. I pay 100% of my health insurance bill each month.

Anyone that is self employed gets raped on taxes. Do you know what your mother's tax rate is? Mine is 40.3% and I'm not making a six digit income so it's not because I'm rich.

Yet, I don't go around expecting my clients to tip me. I charge them a fee for my service, they agree and pay it. That's it.

Am I insensitive to restaurant workers? I worked in restaurants during my teenage years as a dishwasher/busboy making less than minimum wage. My mother and aunt have both worked many years as waitresses. I'm very familiar with the pay rates and how things work. What you aren't "getting" is the concept of a 'tip'.

No, she is not a special case, because thats how the whole industry works. She does pay for health insurance through "paychecks".

No, I don't know my mothers tax rate, but I know the industry is exceptionally high.

You don't expect tips because you don't make 2.50 an hour. The industry was built upon this "standard". The charge is for the food and other costs, and tips are for the service provided. If you don't like tipping, then don't eat out.

I fully understand the concept of a tip. I leave "bad" tips when the service was bad, and I leave good tips when its good, but I also understand it is how they support their family, so no matter what, I'll leave one. When people leave nothing because they don't feel like it, they are just being cheap.

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
Consider this scenario. You dine out at a fairly decent retuaraunt. Not a chain. The waiter smiles, is friendly. You get a hello. He doesnt mess up with the order. You notice the resturaunt is busy. You get a little hungry waiting for entrees. The waiter is exceptional when it comes to refilling your beverage with the exception of your glass remaining empty once for a few minutes. The bill comes to $70. How much would you tip?

Nothing. That's what I expect as standard service. That's THEIR JOB. If they want to go above and beyond their job, then I will consider tipping. Tell me, where in that scenario, did anyone go above and beyond their job requirements?

You are hopeless and cheap.. that mentality amazes me.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: chrisms
That's the theory, but what I'm saying is France is the actual result. Working at a pizza join (before I was a driver, just a prep cook) the managers and owners would get on a trip about improving customer service. It didn't happen because there is no incentive for the employee. Johhny Burgerflipper gets paid the same whether your burger is out in 5 minutes or 20 minutes. That's why fast food joints have crappy service, but at a nice restuarant you'll get the waiters bowing down to your every need.

No incentive for the employee? What the fvck?! If they're not doing their job in which customer service is required, FIRE THEIR ASS. Customer service is required in a customer service position. Hint: that's why it has its name. Maybe if employers wouldn't settle for lame half-assed work by their employees, they wouldn't have to deal with these problems?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: MommysLittleMonster
Consider this scenario. You dine out at a fairly decent retuaraunt. Not a chain. The waiter smiles, is friendly. You get a hello. He doesnt mess up with the order. You notice the resturaunt is busy. You get a little hungry waiting for entrees. The waiter is exceptional when it comes to refilling your beverage with the exception of your glass remaining empty once for a few minutes. The bill comes to $70. How much would you tip?

Nothing. That's what I expect as standard service. That's THEIR JOB. If they want to go above and beyond their job, then I will consider tipping. Tell me, where in that scenario, did anyone go above and beyond their job requirements?

You are hopeless and cheap.. that mentality amazes me.

The food industry is WAY out of control. It's unlike any other industry in the world. Try these bullsh|t gestapo tactics in any other industry and you'll run out of customers VERY quickly.