If you believe Steam violates your "right of first sale" then take them to court over it. Here is hoping you win, stomping out Steam and Valve in the process. Then at the end of that you can give yourself a pat on the back and go buy an Xbox 360 / $70 games because that's where all your games will be afterwards.
Red Irish
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Originally posted by: chizow
Oh don't worry, I didn't take it as an insult as your accusations have no merit and only reinforce my position that your sole focus is to spread and perpetuate misinformation, even when shown to be provably wrong.
Chizow, you have yet to prove anybody wrong other than yourself.
Originally posted by: chizow
What the...LOL.
Once again, I can sell any of my retail box titles with SecuROM, if I wanted to. Good thing I don't sell my games though, nor do I have any such intention when I buy them.
So I guess we should just do away law enforcement right? It clearly doesn't work 100% and can lead to potential abuses and problems for the people its meant to protect.
I'm pretty sure that it's also against the EULA to resell Spore. Try reading the crap you agree to and give companies money for so they can rob you of your rights before you spout off nonsense.
Pretty ignorant statement, again.
I HAVE ALREADY STATED THAT I DO NOT USE OR SUPPORT STEAM.
Ugh...learn to read!
It won't take freaking lawsuits to ruin PC gaming. The game companies and their DRM are already doing a great job on their own, thanks!
If it wasn't for WOW, there wouldn't even be "PC gaming."
And you get there by improving it, not destroying it. So you agree then. DRM needs improvements however not removal.
Calm down, I have no plan of remembering whether you like or support Steam. However, I'd like to remind you that you are posting in a Steam thread.
How can these sheep even claim that DRM prevents piracy?
Spore: Super heavy DRM
Sins of a Solar Empire: No DRM
What is the result? THEY BOTH HAVE THE SAME RATIO OF PIRACY!
This is not rocket science here. People who try to sound so smart are actually incredibly stupid. It's a common epidemic nowadays...
Spore: Super heavy DRM
Sins of a Solar Empire: No DRM
What is the result? THEY BOTH HAVE THE SAME RATIO OF PIRACY!
This is not rocket science here. People who try to sound so smart are actually incredibly stupid. It's a common epidemic nowadays...
Yep, you didn't just reply to a post of mine (quoting it, too!) saying that I do not support Steam about oh...a page and a half ago.
Seriously, you need to go back to Troll School. You are too obvious.
I am done with you and chizow. It's not worth the time or effort. You live in a different reality from the rest of us...
Alright, no more arguing with the handout crowd. Got a new computer and speaker system to setup. Here's looking forward to how easily it will be to get my Steam games reinstalled. :beer:
Red Irish
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Patience is a virtue...
Okay, once more on to the breach: Steam and Securom have little or no effect on piracy. I am willing to put up with a simple CD-check, but I refuse to accept online activation requirements or software that installs on my system without my permission and/or knowledge (the EULA's are too vague). Current DRM is causing a great deal of harm to the gaming experience on the PC and we could all do without out it. Steam, according to you, offers advantages; however, if it's so great make it optional rather than obligatory - how many people would continue to use it? Clearer now?
I already know you have no clue how SecuROM works, having admitted you haven't actually bought a title with SecuROM in years. But no, the limited activation rights aren't an issue provided you uninstall the game or use the revoke tool and give up your rights to the your end-user license when you sell it.
It would take a ridiculously unlikely chain of events involving someone simultaneously installing the game on all 5 install machines and reformatting all of those machines to render all installations inactive. Impossible? No, but surely helps explain why its such a small problem only effecting 1% of users.
As for DRM only doing what its intended, the methods it employs are a means to an end, no one has claimed its a perfect system, but its certainly more effective than nothing.
Few people have the time, energy, or money to fight these things out in court, though, and the fact remains that you can resell your copy of Spore.
LOL, speakinng of reading crap before spouting off nonsense......
Oh shit, don't look now, I just proved you wrong AGAIN.
Originally posted by: chizow
I already know you have no clue how SecuROM works, having admitted you haven't actually bought a title with SecuROM in years. But no, the limited activation rights aren't an issue provided you uninstall the game or use the revoke tool and give up your rights to the your end-user license when you sell it.
It would take a ridiculously unlikely chain of events involving someone simultaneously installing the game on all 5 install machines and reformatting all of those machines to render all installations inactive. Impossible? No, but surely helps explain why its such a small problem only effecting 1% of users.
As for DRM only doing what its intended, the methods it employs are a means to an end, no one has claimed its a perfect system, but its certainly more effective than nothing.
Few people have the time, energy, or money to fight these things out in court, though, and the fact remains that you can resell your copy of Spore.
LOL, speakinng of reading crap before spouting off nonsense......
Oh shit, don't look now, I just proved you wrong AGAIN.
Curious that you post a link to an article that makes your position weaker, considering that most of this crap that EA and other DRM schemes are pulling right now are in a very grey area of the law and are being disputed in the courts. It's okay, FOR NOW, because there hasn't been any precedence for it before.
CoinOperatedBoy
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- Dec 11, 2008
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Okay then, I will be clear. My arguments are:
- DRM is not about combating piracy, it's about controlling and tracking access. When you argue for DRM, you are arguing for consumer restriction.
- Restrictive DRM hurts the value of a product, regardless of its success in deterring pirates, because it damages the legitimate customer's experience. SecuROM is one such form of DRM, and I will not buy games that I know include it.
- Most DRM does not, in actuality, prevent a game from being pirated, so it's ineffective to this end. See SPORE. So not only has it removed value from the product, but it didn't even manage to fulfill its advertised main purpose.
- Publishers that use ineffective, malware-style DRM should reconsider their approach to piracy. As it stands, everyone is treated as a criminal, but the actual criminals aren't affected by the restrictions. Something needs to change.
- I feel that, as Red Irish has suggested, simple disc checks and keys are sufficient for combating "casual piracy" as described in this thread.
- The more technically inclined pirates could be considered as one of two types: those who will not pay for software no matter what, and those who would in the right circumstances.
- The hardcore pirates should be caught and prosecuted. We have laws for this. DRM isn't stopping these guys, and it's not like they're even potential customers.
- I believe Steam's delivery system is a good way to attract the second group to become legitimate customers because it allows for the possibility of those things I mentioned before: convenient distribution, high availability, and low prices. Whether it actually manages to deliver on those is up for debate, but it's a good stab in the right direction because it has the potential to offer an experience that is comparably attractive to P2P.
- Denying consumers the right of resale is bad, and should not be tolerated, technical barriers aside.
- Finally, I am all for the idea of developers and publishers protecting their products from pirates. They should be paid fairly for what they produce and for what we enjoy. But I will be among those to speak up and say, "I will not pay you to treat me like a criminal" if I feel my rights as a consumer are being violated.
That's it.
Red Irish
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Originally posted by: chizow
I already know you have no clue how SecuROM works, having admitted you haven't actually bought a title with SecuROM in years. But no, the limited activation rights aren't an issue provided you uninstall the game or use the revoke tool and give up your rights to the your end-user license when you sell it.
It would take a ridiculously unlikely chain of events involving someone simultaneously installing the game on all 5 install machines and reformatting all of those machines to render all installations inactive. Impossible? No, but surely helps explain why its such a small problem only effecting 1% of users.
As for DRM only doing what its intended, the methods it employs are a means to an end, no one has claimed its a perfect system, but its certainly more effective than nothing.
Few people have the time, energy, or money to fight these things out in court, though, and the fact remains that you can resell your copy of Spore.
LOL, speakinng of reading crap before spouting off nonsense......
Oh shit, don't look now, I just proved you wrong AGAIN.
Chizow, if Spore can now be resold it is only because people like me complained and EA finally were forced to relent on their original plans. The install limits, given that changing hardware configurations on a single machine may count as an install, are not that hard to reach. I'm glad you feel the need to congratulate yourself.
How does it make my position weaker? It shows you clearly have no clue what you're talking about when you claim SecuROM prevents the resale of games in general and Spore in specific. Fear not! Your Right of First Sale are safe! LOL.
You mean all your 1 star rating spam on Amazon and crying on forums resulted in the same exact ability to resell your game that Spore shipped with at launch? If I congratulate myself its at least going to be for something I actually accomplished. In this case its clearly warranted though, as I've once again proven you wrong. /highfivesself :beer::laugh:
Red Irish
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You and others consistently state that Securom is not perfect and yet defend it at every available opportunity in the face of legitimate complaints. The restrictions/hindrances to second-hand sale exist, you choose to ignore or quickly gloss over them. You have to be a a company employee rather than a gamer/consumer. High five to you indeed.
Precisely, the same old wine in a brand new bottle, tho not according to Gabe Newell, who apparently wishes to become the Gaming Distribution Bottling Master of the Universe.
meh
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