[UPDATED 3/2!!!] Getting counteroffer'd to DEATH...

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Yossarian

Lifer
Dec 26, 2000
18,010
1
81
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Well, I just got off the phone with the placement firm and explained the situation to them *just in case* I can't contain this.

My plan is to go in Monday morning and LAY DOWN THE LAW:

[Boss], I'm disappointed that you've put me in such an awkward position that I have to have this kind of frank discussion with you. My decision to resign was not respected, the company to which I'll be going has been mocked to my face and behind my back, and I've felt intense heat over the request of giving you a third week's notice. Had this situation been handled better from the start, we could have spent the first week working toward my departure; instead, it's been wasted on all of this drama, which is why you need a third week from me in the first place.

The chief reason behind my quitting is that I tired of the constant exploitations of my desire to please you, my work ethic, and my passion for success. Your actions over the last week clearly demonstrate - in an extremely concise manner - why I chose to leave in the first place. I say this not to "get back at you" or anything of the like, but rather in hopes that you'll finally relent in your pressures because you realize that none of this was EVER debatable, despite how polite and respectful I have tried to be. I've learned a very valuable lesson, which is that rather than tip-toeing around your feelings to "preserve our relationship" - which is clearly already shot - I should have simply said "I quit" and gone home... because anything less was apparently not clear enough.

My last day is this coming Friday, March 9th. I strongly suggest that we put an end to this nonsense and you allow me the opportunity to transfer as much knowledge as possible to [person I've been training]. Every minute wasted on this is a minute I could spend helping her understand my responsibilities.

If, at any point, any of this - including this very conversation - is brought back up, I will walk.

If, at any point, I feel a shred of retaliation from you, the executive staff, or HR, I will walk.

I want, in writing TODAY, that I will be paid every minute of unused vacation and personal time, or I will walk.


I am a professional, and I am deeply disappointed that you have put me in a position where I have a less-than-professional conversation with someone who I once so respected.


[optional "Damn you, son.", depending on the mood]

I hope you aren't planning on putting that childish, battered woman-style thing in writing. Your boss is pretty bad but it doesn't seem you know how to conduct yourself in a professional environment either.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: sixone
Don't wait until Monday. It'll just gnaw on you all weekend.

Because it's something that I think should be done face to face and with HR in the room (even though "HR" is just one lady, and she's part of this executive "clique").

I have 80 hours of vacation and 40 hours of personal time on the line, and I need assurances that that time will be paid.

At first this was all somewhat entertaining, but I could get fscked real fast here and not even feel it until it's too late.

Why in the hell don't you take some of that now?
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: Yossarian
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Well, I just got off the phone with the placement firm and explained the situation to them *just in case* I can't contain this.

My plan is to go in Monday morning and LAY DOWN THE LAW:

[Boss], I'm disappointed that you've put me in such an awkward position that I have to have this kind of frank discussion with you. My decision to resign was not respected, the company to which I'll be going has been mocked to my face and behind my back, and I've felt intense heat over the request of giving you a third week's notice. Had this situation been handled better from the start, we could have spent the first week working toward my departure; instead, it's been wasted on all of this drama, which is why you need a third week from me in the first place.

The chief reason behind my quitting is that I tired of the constant exploitations of my desire to please you, my work ethic, and my passion for success. Your actions over the last week clearly demonstrate - in an extremely concise manner - why I chose to leave in the first place. I say this not to "get back at you" or anything of the like, but rather in hopes that you'll finally relent in your pressures because you realize that none of this was EVER debatable, despite how polite and respectful I have tried to be. I've learned a very valuable lesson, which is that rather than tip-toeing around your feelings to "preserve our relationship" - which is clearly already shot - I should have simply said "I quit" and gone home... because anything less was apparently not clear enough.

My last day is this coming Friday, March 9th. I strongly suggest that we put an end to this nonsense and you allow me the opportunity to transfer as much knowledge as possible to [person I've been training]. Every minute wasted on this is a minute I could spend helping her understand my responsibilities.

If, at any point, any of this - including this very conversation - is brought back up, I will walk.

If, at any point, I feel a shred of retaliation from you, the executive staff, or HR, I will walk.

I want, in writing TODAY, that I will be paid every minute of unused vacation and personal time, or I will walk.


I am a professional, and I am deeply disappointed that you have put me in a position where I have a less-than-professional conversation with someone who I once so respected.


[optional "Damn you, son.", depending on the mood]

I hope you aren't planning on putting that childish, battered woman-style thing in writing. Your boss is pretty bad but it doesn't seem you know how to conduct yourself in a professional environment either.

Oh please... put yourself in my shoes for just two freaking seconds and tell me I haven't made every possible effort up until now to be as professional as possible.

I'm faced with a choice right now: I could strand my coworkers and jeopardize additional pay that's coming to me, or I could sit down and do what I know it takes to put a final end to this NOW. In you haven't noticed words like "final" and "not debatable" don't register with him. Perhaps childish, battered woman-style rantings are the only thing that will work.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: sixone
Don't wait until Monday. It'll just gnaw on you all weekend.

Because it's something that I think should be done face to face and with HR in the room (even though "HR" is just one lady, and she's part of this executive "clique").

I have 80 hours of vacation and 40 hours of personal time on the line, and I need assurances that that time will be paid.

At first this was all somewhat entertaining, but I could get fscked real fast here and not even feel it until it's too late.

Why in the hell don't you take some of that now?

Because they can then terminate me.

"[Boss], I'm going to give you FIVE weeks notice! Guess what though, I'm taking three of them as vacation."

"Leave."
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: kranky
I predict he's not going to give you written confirmation of your unused paid time off. But I still think you'll get the money. I have met imbeciles like your boss before and your excellent blow-by-blow descriptions of the discussions only reinforce my opinion. The problem with your request is he will not acquiece to taking orders from you. It's not in his personality. The conversation you related about him talking to the Team Lead clinched it.

He's a first-class manipulator, user and BSer. He throws out buzzwords and "management-speak" like a champ, but the motivation behind every word comes down to "How can I get <person> to give me/do for me what I want." He isn't relenting because he is used to getting his way and he's mad that he can't bully you no matter what he's tried. Good cop didn't work. Bad cop didn't work. The "my old pal" routine didn't work. "You owe me" didn't work. "We're in this together" didn't work.

People like him do not "take orders" from subordinates even when there's no reason not to, because he won't be able to stand knowing he was doing what you want and what you told him to.

I greatly look forward to hearing his reaction to your upcoming speech but I would add one thing: before you start, ask him to hear you out completely before he says anything. I bet he can't do it.

In a twisted way I wish you would change your mind... it's a shame this wonderful thread is drawing to a close. ;)

If you don't mind, I might have to lean on some of what you said, because you've articulated the situation extremely well.

As for this drawing to a close, I wouldn't worry too much about that. I thought this would be over by Wednesday, at the LATEST. We're now headed into the weekend and we're still knee-deep in horseshit.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: sixone
Don't wait until Monday. It'll just gnaw on you all weekend.

Because it's something that I think should be done face to face and with HR in the room (even though "HR" is just one lady, and she's part of this executive "clique").

I have 80 hours of vacation and 40 hours of personal time on the line, and I need assurances that that time will be paid.

At first this was all somewhat entertaining, but I could get fscked real fast here and not even feel it until it's too late.

Why in the hell don't you take some of that now?

Because they can then terminate me.

"[Boss], I'm going to give you FIVE weeks notice! Guess what though, I'm taking three of them as vacation."

"Leave."

Terminate you for using your earned vacation? Doubtful.

You should really be taking all of this up with your HR person. At this point, I wouldn't believe a word of what my soon-to-be ex-boss tells me.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Well, I just got off the phone with the placement firm and explained the situation to them *just in case* I can't contain this.

My plan is to go in Monday morning and LAY DOWN THE LAW:

[Boss], I'm disappointed that you've put me in such an awkward position that I have to have this kind of frank discussion with you. My decision to resign was not respected, the company to which I'll be going has been mocked to my face and behind my back, and I've felt intense heat over the request of giving you a third week's notice. Had this situation been handled better from the start, we could have spent the first week working toward my departure; instead, it's been wasted on all of this drama, which is why you need a third week from me in the first place.

The chief reason behind my quitting is that I tired of the constant exploitations of my desire to please you, my work ethic, and my passion for success. Your actions over the last week clearly demonstrate - in an extremely concise manner - why I chose to leave in the first place. I say this not to "get back at you" or anything of the like, but rather in hopes that you'll finally relent in your pressures because you realize that none of this was EVER debatable, despite how polite and respectful I have tried to be. I've learned a very valuable lesson, which is that rather than tip-toeing around your feelings to "preserve our relationship" - which is clearly already shot - I should have simply said "I quit" and gone home... because anything less was apparently not clear enough.

My last day is this coming Friday, March 9th. I strongly suggest that we put an end to this nonsense and you allow me the opportunity to transfer as much knowledge as possible to [person I've been training]. Every minute wasted on this is a minute I could spend helping her understand my responsibilities.

If, at any point, any of this - including this very conversation - is brought back up, I will walk.

If, at any point, I feel a shred of retaliation from you, the executive staff, or HR, I will walk.

I want, in writing TODAY, that I will be paid every minute of unused vacation and personal time, or I will walk.


I am a professional, and I am deeply disappointed that you have put me in a position where I have a less-than-professional conversation with someone who I once so respected.


[optional "Damn you, son.", depending on the mood]

i would advise against this...
 

KoolAidKid

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2002
1,932
0
76
IMO, the more conversations you have with your boss, the worse it will be. I would limit conversation to a bare minimum for the remainder of the two weeks if I were you.
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
0
0
the fact this is your 3rd time says something

you've threatened to leave twice before, and each time nothings changed. theyve fed you some more cash because " money solves everything" but ultimately you are still in an environment you detest. so just cut it off a get out.

find a job you like. because doing something you like really isnt work at all.
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
0
0
Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
If it was me and I had generally good working conditions other than the current problems, I'd probably stay. They wouldn't be so willing to keep you if they didn't want you around. Even if you're vital in the short term, they can't easily get rid of you in the future. If it doesn't work out, you can decide to leave.

It sounds like they might be genuine about wanting to change things, they have a point they need good people to help them do it. Be aware you need to step up and take part in that, which I'm sure you would.

Just my 2p.

what so he can start his own dabbling in micromanagement? :p

cant beat em, join em!
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
0
0
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: kranky
I predict he's not going to give you written confirmation of your unused paid time off. But I still think you'll get the money. I have met imbeciles like your boss before and your excellent blow-by-blow descriptions of the discussions only reinforce my opinion. The problem with your request is he will not acquiece to taking orders from you. It's not in his personality. The conversation you related about him talking to the Team Lead clinched it.

He's a first-class manipulator, user and BSer. He throws out buzzwords and "management-speak" like a champ, but the motivation behind every word comes down to "How can I get <person> to give me/do for me what I want." He isn't relenting because he is used to getting his way and he's mad that he can't bully you no matter what he's tried. Good cop didn't work. Bad cop didn't work. The "my old pal" routine didn't work. "You owe me" didn't work. "We're in this together" didn't work.

People like him do not "take orders" from subordinates even when there's no reason not to, because he won't be able to stand knowing he was doing what you want and what you told him to.

I greatly look forward to hearing his reaction to your upcoming speech but I would add one thing: before you start, ask him to hear you out completely before he says anything. I bet he can't do it.

In a twisted way I wish you would change your mind... it's a shame this wonderful thread is drawing to a close. ;)

If you don't mind, I might have to lean on some of what you said, because you've articulated the situation extremely well.

As for this drawing to a close, I wouldn't worry too much about that. I thought this would be over by Wednesday, at the LATEST. We're now headed into the weekend and we're still knee-deep in horseshit.

kranky seems to have hit the nail on the head there.
 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
1
0
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Well, I just got off the phone with the placement firm and explained the situation to them *just in case* I can't contain this.

My plan is to go in Monday morning and LAY DOWN THE LAW:

[Boss], I'm disappointed that you've put me in such an awkward position that I have to have this kind of frank discussion with you. My decision to resign was not respected, the company to which I'll be going has been mocked to my face and behind my back, and I've felt intense heat over the request of giving you a third week's notice. Had this situation been handled better from the start, we could have spent the first week working toward my departure; instead, it's been wasted on all of this drama, which is why you need a third week from me in the first place.

The chief reason behind my quitting is that I tired of the constant exploitations of my desire to please you, my work ethic, and my passion for success. Your actions over the last week clearly demonstrate - in an extremely concise manner - why I chose to leave in the first place. I say this not to "get back at you" or anything of the like, but rather in hopes that you'll finally relent in your pressures because you realize that none of this was EVER debatable, despite how polite and respectful I have tried to be. I've learned a very valuable lesson, which is that rather than tip-toeing around your feelings to "preserve our relationship" - which is clearly already shot - I should have simply said "I quit" and gone home... because anything less was apparently not clear enough.

My last day is this coming Friday, March 9th. I strongly suggest that we put an end to this nonsense and you allow me the opportunity to transfer as much knowledge as possible to [person I've been training]. Every minute wasted on this is a minute I could spend helping her understand my responsibilities.

If, at any point, any of this - including this very conversation - is brought back up, I will walk.

If, at any point, I feel a shred of retaliation from you, the executive staff, or HR, I will walk.

I want, in writing TODAY, that I will be paid every minute of unused vacation and personal time, or I will walk.


I am a professional, and I am deeply disappointed that you have put me in a position where I have a less-than-professional conversation with someone who I once so respected.


[optional "Damn you, son.", depending on the mood]



No need for such a long explanation.

Just say something like this.

Dear ______,

As I indicated in my resignation letter my last day with <company A> will be __/__/____. I have already made arrangements to begin my new job and I will under no circumstances extend my employment with <company A>. Any attempt by an representative of <company> to contact my new employer to negotiate a different start date will not be welcome under any circumstance.

Sincerly,
JBourne.

 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Well, I just got off the phone with the placement firm and explained the situation to them *just in case* I can't contain this.

My plan is to go in Monday morning and LAY DOWN THE LAW:

[Boss], I'm disappointed that you've put me in such an awkward position that I have to have this kind of frank discussion with you. My decision to resign was not respected, the company to which I'll be going has been mocked to my face and behind my back, and I've felt intense heat over the request of giving you a third week's notice. Had this situation been handled better from the start, we could have spent the first week working toward my departure; instead, it's been wasted on all of this drama, which is why you need a third week from me in the first place.

The chief reason behind my quitting is that I tired of the constant exploitations of my desire to please you, my work ethic, and my passion for success. Your actions over the last week clearly demonstrate - in an extremely concise manner - why I chose to leave in the first place. I say this not to "get back at you" or anything of the like, but rather in hopes that you'll finally relent in your pressures because you realize that none of this was EVER debatable, despite how polite and respectful I have tried to be. I've learned a very valuable lesson, which is that rather than tip-toeing around your feelings to "preserve our relationship" - which is clearly already shot - I should have simply said "I quit" and gone home... because anything less was apparently not clear enough.

My last day is this coming Friday, March 9th. I strongly suggest that we put an end to this nonsense and you allow me the opportunity to transfer as much knowledge as possible to [person I've been training]. Every minute wasted on this is a minute I could spend helping her understand my responsibilities.

If, at any point, any of this - including this very conversation - is brought back up, I will walk.

If, at any point, I feel a shred of retaliation from you, the executive staff, or HR, I will walk.

I want, in writing TODAY, that I will be paid every minute of unused vacation and personal time, or I will walk.


I am a professional, and I am deeply disappointed that you have put me in a position where I have a less-than-professional conversation with someone who I once so respected.


[optional "Damn you, son.", depending on the mood]



No need for such a long explanation.

Just say something like this.

Dear ______,

As I indicated in my resignation letter my last day with <company A> will be __/__/____. I have already made arrangements to begin my new job and I will under no circumstances extend my employment with <company A>. Any attempt by an representative of <company> to contact my new employer to negotiate a different start date will not be welcome under any circumstance.

Sincerly,
JBourne.

Bingo. One copy of that goes to HR, and the other copy goes to your boss. If the topic comes up again, ignore it.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,705
5,829
146
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Well, I just got off the phone with the placement firm and explained the situation to them *just in case* I can't contain this.

My plan is to go in Monday morning and LAY DOWN THE LAW:

[Boss], I'm disappointed that you've put me in such an awkward position that I have to have this kind of frank discussion with you. My decision to resign was not respected, the company to which I'll be going has been mocked to my face and behind my back, and I've felt intense heat over the request of giving you a third week's notice. Had this situation been handled better from the start, we could have spent the first week working toward my departure; instead, it's been wasted on all of this drama, which is why you need a third week from me in the first place.

The chief reason behind my quitting is that I tired of the constant exploitations of my desire to please you, my work ethic, and my passion for success. Your actions over the last week clearly demonstrate - in an extremely concise manner - why I chose to leave in the first place. I say this not to "get back at you" or anything of the like, but rather in hopes that you'll finally relent in your pressures because you realize that none of this was EVER debatable, despite how polite and respectful I have tried to be. I've learned a very valuable lesson, which is that rather than tip-toeing around your feelings to "preserve our relationship" - which is clearly already shot - I should have simply said "I quit" and gone home... because anything less was apparently not clear enough.

My last day is this coming Friday, March 9th. I strongly suggest that we put an end to this nonsense and you allow me the opportunity to transfer as much knowledge as possible to [person I've been training]. Every minute wasted on this is a minute I could spend helping her understand my responsibilities.

If, at any point, any of this - including this very conversation - is brought back up, I will walk.

If, at any point, I feel a shred of retaliation from you, the executive staff, or HR, I will walk.

I want, in writing TODAY, that I will be paid every minute of unused vacation and personal time, or I will walk.


I am a professional, and I am deeply disappointed that you have put me in a position where I have a less-than-professional conversation with someone who I once so respected.


[optional "Damn you, son.", depending on the mood]



No need for such a long explanation.

Just say something like this.

Dear ______,

As I indicated in my resignation letter my last day with <company A> will be __/__/____. I have already made arrangements to begin my new job and I will under no circumstances extend my employment with <company A>. Any attempt by an representative of <company> to contact my new employer to negotiate a different start date will not be welcome under any circumstance.

Sincerly,
JBourne.

Bingo. One copy of that goes to HR, and the other copy goes to your boss. If the topic comes up again, ignore it.

A third copy cgoes to the lawyer you will likely have to employ to get your personal and vacation pay.
 

EKKC

Diamond Member
May 31, 2005
5,895
0
0
bring a gun to work. FIRE ME OR ELSE!!!


i kid i kid.



if they're that aggressive, you should just go and tell them to respect your final decision. but i would never burn my bridges no matter how badly the situation is, keep it professional and clean no matter how much sh!t they pull to keep you there, as much as you don't want to stay, know that it is kind of nice to be wanted.
 

PeeluckyDuckee

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2001
4,464
0
0
What exactly did you say to him that may have given him the impression your statement of resignation is up for negotiation? You did open the doors when you told them where you were going. I wouldn't divulge such information, it's simply none of their business.

Did you mention the issue of not being paid fair market the first two times? If so how did they respond?

Prior to your resignation, these negative environments under which you work, have they been actively working on a solution? I feel that maybe they are saying that just to keep you in the door and nothing, if much, would change.

It's time for a change. The more you hear and see, the more you'll learn. Tell them you need to get out of the house, so to speak, and see what else is out there. If they want what's best for you, which I doubt, they'll let you go. In this day and age, it's normal and expected employees move around, much more so than back in the old days where people stick around for 10, 20, 30yrs. Employers, not necessarily saying yours, needs to keep up with the times to actively recruit and train people as they come and go and not run business with a skeleton crew, not hit the panic button every time there's people movement.

 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: skyking
Originally posted by: ultimatebob


Bingo. One copy of that goes to HR, and the other copy goes to your boss. If the topic comes up again, ignore it.

A third copy goes to the lawyer you will likely have to employ to get your personal and vacation pay.
The same guy to talk to when they go behind your back at the new company and try to extend your start date.

 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
jbourne77, I feel for you.

I agree with others who have said that your boss is exploiting your "relationship". If he cared about you he'd want what is best for you.

When I left work for grad school, no one tried to stop me. Even thought my departure hurt, my boss and my big boss were very encouraging and even told me they thought I should go back to school.

That being said... don't give an inch to your current boss. Sounds like he has nothing but self-interest at heart.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Okay, here's the revised plan:

Monday morning speech:

[Boss], my last day remains unchanged and is still March 9th. If you need me badly enough that another week is this critical, then I urge you to take me up on my offer of consulting after hours and on weekends. If your reasons for not taking advantage of that are still that you want a "clean break" once my notice period is up, then that's fine, too... I promise you a "clean break" (<- subtle hint not to even *dream* of calling me with questions). But one thing needs to be clear: I have absolutely no intention of delaying my start date at my new job, and no action on your or this company's part to alter that is welcome or acceptable. I take partial responsibility for this topic going this far, because rather than trying to subtly decline your request last week, I should have sent a clear, unmistakable message. Please accept what I'm telling you now as that message.

I'll have to play it by ear at that point.
 

doze

Platinum Member
Jul 26, 2005
2,786
0
0
Screw those guys, you don't owe them anything. Don't be surprised if they ask to you to leave early if they don't get their way.
 

mcvickj

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2001
4,602
0
76
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Okay, here's the revised plan:

Monday morning speech:

[Boss], my last day remains unchanged and is still March 9th. If you need me badly enough that another week is this critical, then I urge you to take me up on my offer of consulting after hours and on weekends. If your reasons for not taking advantage of that are still that you want a "clean break" once my notice period is up, then that's fine, too... I promise you a "clean break" (<- subtle hint not to even *dream* of calling me with questions). But one thing needs to be clear: I have absolutely no intention of delaying my start date at my new job, and no action on your or this company's part to alter that is welcome or acceptable. I take partial responsibility for this topic going this far, because rather than trying to subtly decline your request last week, I should have sent a clear, unmistakable message. Please accept what I'm telling you now as that message.

I'll have to play it by ear at that point.

Well at least you recognize this. IF you stuck to your guns from the beginning you could have avoided all of this drama.
 

mikester0421

Junior Member
Jan 17, 2004
24
0
0
It sounds like you may be suffering from Battered Wife Syndrome. You hate the job -> Leave. You like the job -> Stay.

You should not say if you have already turned in you two weeks notice. Your career is shot.