Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[soundforbjt]

Yet many of you jumped on the info that the lead investigator was unconvinced with GZ sequence of events from the very same news site that was quoting "multiple sources"



http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T4WpkpLO-Sq

I don't think I ever did, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[CLite]

And instead he literally could not see or hear zimmerman banging on doors, and thus tripped over him, and accidentally grabbed zimmerman's head while trying to hold himself up, and smashed it against the sidewalk a couple times. What a horrific chain of events which must've unfolded to end up with trayvon ON TOP of zimmerman beating his head in.

Your attempts at comedy and hyperbole by twisting the skepticism expressed by some in this thread do you no great service. Go back to the fab 5 references, anything that requires less imagination from you would probably be a good thing.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Speculations and allegations are one thing. They specifically claimed that the police had evidence that the whole "murder" was racially motivated. And that it was good ol' boys that covered it up. It wasn't an allegation or speculation. They claimed they KNEW for a FACT that Zimmerman shot their son because he was black and no other reason. That was their original statement. go look it up in the original NBC and ABC breaking of this to the national level.

You keep trying to dodge here and I'm not letting you.

If I said the following statement.

"X person killed my son because of Y reason. It is a fact and there is proof. The cops are also racists and swept it under the rug to protect person X."

That is pure textbook defamation especially when they do not know that for a fact and they know there is no proof. That was what was said. I dare you to state otherwise.

I will say, for the third time, that I need citations to actual quotes to analyze this, not your characterizations of what was said. I do not believe the Martins themselves said anything like what you have posted, much less that "they KNEW for a FACT that Zimmerman shot their son because he was black and no other reason."

If memory serves, the Martins' attorneys (not the Martins themselves) sent a letter to the Department of Justice claiming that there were media reports (which there were) that the lead investigator on the scene had wanted to charge Mr. Zimmerman but that the Assistant DA on the case overrode him, and thus the lawyers were asking for a federal investigation. I don't recall there being any reference to whether the crime was racially motivated, much less any allegation that there was evidence of a racial motivation which the SPD had quashed. If I am wrong about these facts, you need to show me that I am in order for me to comment.

I am not "trying to dodge" anything - you just keep changing the "facts" in an effort to get me to change my mind, all while not providing any source for your "facts."

I don't see any purpose in analyzing what you have posted to determine whether it is defamatory, since you've not provided a source for it and I don't believe it's accurate. Show me that it is and I will analyze it. I will say that even your hypothetical is FAR from "textbook defamation," and there would be legally valid defenses to defamation even if the facts were exactly as you have stated, which I don't believe they are.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I don't think he was just out to kill a black person. He did however have suspicion that was based on the kid being black. I think the bigger part of the race issue lies w\ the police though.

From all accounts, it seems they pretty much just took the killers word for everything despite his criminal background w\ the felony assault on a police officer and domestic violence reports.

They saw a young black kid and took the killers word for it because just like him they were also seeing his skin color and believing he was capable of anything.

They didn't seem concerned with finding out that the kid lived right down the walk way from where he was killed or that the killer lived on the complete other side of the neighborhood. They didn't know any of that before they released the killer having taken his word for it and not waiting to investigate.


Look at some of the posters in this thread who have said things like people like trayvon should be wiped out... You see what we're dealing with here. It's 100% a racially charged case. Alot of the pro zimmerman people share this sentiment and that my friends, is racist.

This has been covered so many different times it's getting ridiculous.


There have been only TWO things that could've indicated zimmerman was racist, and BOTH were info manipulated by the media. The first was that zimmerman said he "looked suspicious and black" which was edited from the actual recording which was along the lines of "he looks suspicious, maybe on drugs", the 911 op ASKED if the kid was white, black, hispanic, and zimmerman said he THINKS he is black.

The second was the audio recording where they added in a hard K sound to make it sound like coons.



Stop allowing yourself to be manipulated.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't think he was just out to kill a black person. He did however have suspicion that was based on the kid being black. I think the bigger part of the race issue lies w\ the police though.

From all accounts, it seems they pretty much just took the killers word for everything despite his criminal background w\ the felony assault on a police officer and domestic violence reports.

They saw a young black kid and took the killers word for it because just like him they were also seeing his skin color and believing he was capable of anything.

They didn't seem concerned with finding out that the kid lived right down the walk way from where he was killed or that the killer lived on the complete other side of the neighborhood. They didn't know any of that before they released the killer having taken his word for it and not waiting to investigate.


Look at some of the posters in this thread who have said things like people like trayvon should be wiped out... You see what we're dealing with here. It's 100% a racially charged case. Alot of the pro zimmerman people share this sentiment and that my friends, is racist.

I am not saying that claiming Zimmerman racially "profiled" TM is slanderous. I'm saying the statements that the kill was specially racially motivated and swept under the rug by SPD as initially claimed by Crump and the Martins is very much slanderous. There is a fine line distinction that many seem to not to grasp.

 

[lotus503]

Speculations and allegations are one thing. They specifically claimed that the police had evidence that the whole "murder" was racially motivated. And that it was good ol' boys that covered it up. It wasn't an allegation or speculation. They claimed they KNEW for a FACT that Zimmerman shot their son because he was black and no other reason. That was their original statement. go look it up in the original NBC and ABC breaking of this to the national level.

You keep trying to dodge here and I'm not letting you.

If I said the following statement.

"X person killed my son because of Y reason. It is a fact and there is proof. The cops are also racists and swept it under the rug to protect person X."

That is pure textbook defamation especially when they do not know that for a fact and they know there is no proof. That was what was said. I dare you to state otherwise.

Its their opinion and they are allowed to make statements of that opinion.

Zimmerman may have a case against news networks but to think or even suggest he should try and sue the family of the guy he shot is silly.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Your attempts at comedy and hyperbole by twisting the skepticism expressed by some in this thread do you no great service. Go back to the fab 5 references, anything that requires less imagination from you would probably be a good thing.

At least I am clearly and obviously being sarcastic, compared to the diehard 'in the face of all facts' zimmerman lynchers who have been repeating the exact same misinformation since week 1, each time acting like it's new info, just to have it repeatedly proven wrong.

Edit: removed referenced callout.

 

[HumblePie]

Its their opinion and they are allowed to make statements of that opinion.

Zimmerman may have a case against news networks but to think or even suggest he should try and sue the family of the guy he shot is silly.

Your opinion doesn't matter when it comes to the law. Again look at the case I posted above with Richard Jewell.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Also, Don, you don't see to know your cases much do you for previous decisions like this. Where someone was incorrectly tried by the media with similar claims made against their character.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jewell

Funny you'd bring that up - as I stated earlier, I am very familiar with the Jewell case and actually wrote my law review note (essentially a lengthy legal article - I never did the extra work to get mine published or I would link to it) about the case, and pretrial publicity generally.

Thus far the only coverage I have seen that is potentially actionable, under the same sort of analysis that was applied in the Jewell litigations, is NBC's editing of the 911 call. Certainly the Jewell cases tell us nothing about whether the Martins themselves could be sued for defamation (which, based on the facts as I know them, they could not).

I would expect that L. Lin Wood (the defamation attorney who handled the Jewell cases, and who was recently in the public eye representing Herman Cain) will likely step forward to represent Mr. Zimmerman, and in light of what NBC did, I would expect they will pay something. It's certainly possible that other news outlets have engaged in actionable conduct but I'm not aware of it.

 

[airdata]

Originally Posted by lotus503
I think he did something wrong by getting out of the car and following him.

Now legally that may not be a crime. But I think he demonstrated awful judgement that night and was wrong in his actions leading up to the confrontation.

Legally he may have had the right to behave like he did, just like legally you can eat oreos 24/7, doesnt mean it smart or should be acceptable to society.

You are correct.

All of the events that night happened because of poor decisions that Zimmerman made. Trayvon was doing nothing wrong, and yet Zimmerman was calling the police and following him around w\ a pistol as if he was doing something wrong.

He made the incorrect profile of a kid that was just walking home. Then he made the mistake to get out of his car and follow him around at night w\ a gun.

Following people around at night isn't a very good idea. This isn't the 30's and 40's where people leave their doors unlocked and everybody knows their neighbors. There are people out there likely to rape and kill you. So, when you have some stranger following you around at night that's fair grounds to defend yourself.

And then there's the actual killing. This is the biggest mistake Zimmerman made of course. Had he displayed his gun told Trayvon to stop kicking his ass, the murder could have been avoided. However, he consciously made the decision to murder him.

You people need to stop and just think here. You pretend Zimmerman is some good guy... he's not. He's a loser. He has horrible judgement. And through all of the events of that night he showed that he never should have even been permitted to own a gun. Surely his mental health is not in order if he's 28 and he's got nothing better to do than to pretend he's the police. This is his end. He can enjoy his stay in jail in protective custody.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Other claims by the Parents,

"George Zimmerman hunted down our son like a dog."

Slanderous statement there Don?

Nope - not even close. Try again.

 

[airdata]

I am not saying that claiming Zimmerman racially "profiled" TM is slanderous. I'm saying the statements that the kill was specially racially motivated and swept under the rug by SPD as initially claimed by Crump and the Martins is very much slanderous. There is a fine line distinction that many seem to not to grasp.

Look at the people who have stepped down.

You don't quit your job if nothing is the matter. They handled it poorly in part because they saw a black teen who must have been up to no good like the killer claimed when he started stalking him just what? 50-100 yards from his home?

 

[HumblePie]

Grr, finding the exact quotes I remember is becoming an pain. Found some articles paraphrasing the claim again.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ls-released-in-trayvon-martin-fatal-shooting/

Read the bottom.

Martin's parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, accused Sanford police of botching the investigation and criticized them for not arresting Zimmerman, who says he shot Martin in self-defense. Martin was not armed and his parents say the police department hasn't arrested Zimmerman because he is white and their son was black.

They didn't originally make allegations. They made statements. They specifically stated that the police department covered up the crime because Martin was black and Zimmerman was white and that was the only reason.

Still trying to find a closer quote used in a media article.

 

[HumblePie]

Look at the people who have stepped down.

You don't quit your job if nothing is the matter. They handled it poorly in part because they saw a black teen who must have been up to no good like the killer claimed when he started stalking him just what? 50-100 yards from his home?

WTF kind of strawman bullshit is that? Why are you deflecting my statement of parents and the media being possibly slanderous, especially if Zimmerman is found innocent, have ANYTHING to do with your strawman there?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I don't think I ever did, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

You're probably right and I can't remember if you did, though I know several in here drank this up like it was the gospel.

I'll say one thing though I might not see eye to eye with either you or DVC however, at least you two are respectful in your argument even when you may be falsely accused.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Look at the people who have stepped down.

You don't quit your job if nothing is the matter. They handled it poorly in part because they saw a black teen who must have been up to no good like the killer claimed when he started stalking him just what? 50-100 yards from his home?

More BS false info that has been repeatedly covered, with you yourself in the conversation.


They stepped down to make it impossible for the lynchers to claim there is bias. It doesn't mean 'something is wrong', it's to make it impossible to claim there's some inherent sanford PD racism that manipulated the case.

 

[lotus503]

Yet many of you jumped on the info that the lead investigator was unconvinced with GZ sequence of events from the very same news site that was quoting "multiple sources"



http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T4WpkpLO-Sq

We have direct Member account of whats going on in Sanford that contradicts the news story.

On the Serino issue the only thing disputed was the process or procedure related to how they classify the case and what that meant.

 

[soundforbjt]

You're probably right and I can't remember if you did, though I know several in here drank this up like it was the gospel.

I'll say one thing though I might not see eye to eye with either you or DVC however, at least you two are respectful in your argument even when you may be falsely accused.

Thanks, I've tried to respect your positions much more than the radicals on "your" side of the argument. You haven't made "fantasy" speculations like some have.

 

[spidey07]

"Why I Called George Zimmerman a Murderer, and Why I Was Wrong"

Pretty good summary all the martin supporters should read. It puts to bed all their lies and misrepresentations fed by the media.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/why-i-called-george-zimmerman-a-murderer-and-why-i-was-wrong/

At that moment, in reasonable fear for his life, and apparently after a struggle for his gun if Zimmerman’s lie detector-cleared testimony can be believed, he fired a single shot at Trayvon Martin.

Ultimately, the forensics the public has not seen may be the ultimate arbiter of truth. If the ballistic trajectory is consistent with Zimmerman’s story, then Trayvon Martin was killed in a textbook case of self-defense. Florida’s “stand your ground” law is utterly immaterial and Zimmerman committed no crime whatsoever.

Ultimately, the special prosecutor will have to weigh the evidence in this case and make her own determination, but she would have to find some very compelling evidence countermanding the testimony and forensics shows thus far, which seem to support Zimmerman’s claim of legal self-defense.

I took the media’s claims at face value and erroneously labeled George Zimmerman a murderer based upon false information that was designed to arrange a lynching.

I won’t get fooled again, and I hope that prosecutor Angela Corey, who dismissed the grand jury this week, won’t fall into the same trap of trying to pursue a narrative instead of true justice.

 

[lotus503]

I disagree. I hope that if one of my neighbors (let alone the neighborhood watch captain) saw some obvious punk thug looking between houses, acting suspicious, who ran away when merely asked what he's doing there, would do what zimmerman did... And knock on doors to notify everyone that a thug is running around potentially trying to break into houses again.


Zimmerman did exactly what any upstanding citizen SHOULD do when a punk thug is running around a neighborhood who has a history of break-ins.

I think this highlights the primary differences on both sides of the ailse.
I think he should have called the cops and let them handle it.
You think his actions were fine.


In additon " saw some obvious punk thug looking between houses"
"who ran away when merely asked what he's doing there"

Those are your filters and I am sure they are very similar to Zimmermans

 

[Pens1566]

And instead he literally could not see or hear zimmerman banging on doors, and thus tripped over him, and accidentally grabbed zimmerman's head while trying to hold himself up, and smashed it against the sidewalk a couple times. What a horrific chain of events which must've unfolded to end up with trayvon ON TOP of zimmerman beating his head in.

Yet again, has nothing to do with anything posted by anyone.

 

[spidey07]

Yet again, has nothing to do with anything posted by anyone.

It's as believable and true about as much as all the "what ifs" made up by zimmerman lynch mob.

He's not getting charged. Zimmerman's story is fact and very clear cut self defense, backed up by tons of evidence.

Thug tried to play big boy, thug got dead by attacking an armed man. Let that be a lesson to all thugs.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Thanks, I've tried to respect your positions much more than the radicals on "your" side of the argument. You haven't made "fantasy" speculations like some have.

I try to stick with the known facts and interpret the applicable laws to the best of my non-lawyer abilities.

 

[lotus503]

"Why I Called George Zimmerman a Murderer, and Why I Was Wrong"

Pretty good summary all the martin supporters should read. It puts to bed all their lies and misrepresentations fed by the media.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/why-i-called-george-zimmerman-a-murderer-and-why-i-was-wrong/

I read that yesterday, its a very well constructed opinion based on everything we know. and given what we do know may very well be what happened.

I too have evolved my opinion as new information became available.


We are going to find out soon if thats the end of the evidence or if there are bombs we know nothing about yet.

Either way your still a disgusting human being.

 

[Pens1566]

It's as believable and true about as much as all the "what ifs" made up by zimmerman lynch mob.

He's not getting charged. Zimmerman's story is fact and very clear cut self defense, backed up by tons of evidence.

Thug tried to play big boy, thug got dead by attacking an armed man. Let that be a lesson to all thugs.

Keep telling yourself that at night while you softly caress your guns with your white sheet in your militia shelter while you fall asleep reading "Race War Preparation Monthly".