Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Don Vito Corleone]

Actually calling him racist, which they done, is considered inflamatory when there was no evidence for calling him racist and plenty that proved he wasn't. Such as sponsoring black kids, working for a black homeless man against the SPD, and having many friends in a neighborhood that is predominately black while doing volunteer work for that community. No one pays people on neighborhood watch.

That evidence was easily obtained at the time of their claims of him being racist. Those claims have certainly damaged his reputation as well. Thus slander.

"Inflammatory" statements are only defamatory if they meet the legal standard referenced in my prior post. Any statement by the Martins that Mr. Zimmerman is a racist would be one of opinion, not of fact, since they can't pry his head open and know what he believes. Accordingly, such a statement would not be actionable.

Interestingly, you are accepting as true the defenses of Mr. Zimmerman raised by his family and friends (e.g., that he did the community service activities you referenced to help black people). These are not things we know to be true, and presumably the Martins don't know whether they are true or not either. In any case they are irrelevant, since, as I stated above, calling someone a racist does not constitute defamation.

 

[a777pilot]

...calling someone a racist does not constitute defamation.

Unless that person doing the name calling is a white male Republican.

 

[HumblePie]

"Inflammatory" statements are only defamatory if they meet the legal standard referenced in my prior post. Any statement by the Martins that Mr. Zimmerman is a racist would be one of opinion, not of fact, since they can't pry his head open and know what he believes. Accordingly, such a statement would not be actionable.

Interestingly, you are accepting as true the defenses of Mr. Zimmerman raised by his family and friends (e.g., that he did the community service activities you referenced to help black people). These are not things we know to be true, and presumably the Martins don't know whether they are true or not either. In any case they are irrelevant, since, as I stated above, calling someone a racist does not constitute defamation.

No, claiming he is racist is one thing.

Claiming he shot their child for Racially Motivated reasons is another. That is something they did. There is a clear distinction and I'm surprised you don't seem to see that Mr. Lawyer. One is an opinion, albeit a bad hurtful one, and the other is a defamation statement construction an action as a fact. The action is that Zimmerman shot their child because he was black. Nothing more and nothing less. That was a claim they and Crump originally put forth. They made that claim without due diligence to find out if that claim was truthful. That claim has since then caused harm to Zimmerman's character.

Dispute that Mr. Lawyer.

Which if you re-read my last post I said the exact same thing.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

No, claiming he is racist is one thing.

Claiming he shot their child for Racially Motivated reasons is another. That is something they did. There is a clear distinction and I'm surprised you don't seem to see that Mr. Lawyer. One is an opinion, albeit a bad hurtful one, and the other is a defamation statement construction an action as a fact. The action is that Zimmerman shot their child because he was black. Nothing more and nothing less. That was a claim they and Crump originally put forth. They made that claim without due diligence to find out if that claim was truthful. That claim has since then caused harm to Zimmerman's character.

Dispute that Mr. Lawyer.

Which if you re-read my last post I said the exact same thing.

Again, that is a statement of opinion, not fact. Nobody but Mr. Zimmerman knows whether his actions were motivated, in whole or in part, by racism. Certainly the Martins don't know, and they obviously don't trust Mr. Zimmerman to accurately report that. (For my part, I have consistently said that I don't believe this crime was a racist act on his part, but I might well feel differently if I were black and my son were the one lying in the morgue, and in any case, a man who has killed another and might be charged with capital murder is not generally a reliable source of information regarding his own motivations.) The First Amendment gives them license to speculate about his motives and draw whatever conclusions they believe are warranted. I have not actually seen them say unequivocally, "George Zimmerman killed our son because he is a racist and our son was black," but even if they did it would not be actionable, because it is not a statement of present fact which is provably false.

 

[soundforbjt]

Crisis centers in the area are gearing up for level 3, the same as when a hurricane is coming.

There will be no charges filed and there will be riots and looting. Good of the SP to let zimmerman know so he can get safe. You don't give a "suspect" 72 hours to get away if you're going to arrest him.

Link for this please. jstern, a member who lives there and knows Bill Lee stated last night that there is no "beefed up" police or other presence.

Sorry been busy lately. No the national guard/police are not out in force in Sanford. The various marches in Sanford and Central Florida have been pretty much peaceful (usual nutcases).

I ran into Chief Lee at Easter Mass on Sunday, he seems pretty relaxed and quiet about the whole case (was more concerned about his middle son, who is an alter boy, screwing up his first Easter Mass).

 

[spidey07]

Link for this please. jstern, a member who lives there and knows Bill Lee stated last night that there is no "beefed up" police or other presence.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-cru...n-neighborhood/story?id=16103091#.T4Wl_nm17ox

The shooting occurred as tensions continue in this small middle class city. One official told ABC News tension could soon reaching a boiling point. ABC News has learned that the emergency operation centers of three counties have been activated at Level II, the same level of preparedness used ahead of a hurricane.

 

[spidey07]

There is video of what is likely Martin at the 7-11. But he's there around 6-6:30, exact time not known since the tape has been taken into evidence.

Just what was martin doing between the store and the zimmerman call? Casing houses to rob?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012...estions_about_trayvon_martins_final_hour.html

But a video does exist. The public relations director of 7-Eleven told me that, according to the company's manager of security, a store camera captured an African-American male (she wouldn't commit to "young") purchasing a bag of Skittles and a can of tea (she wouldn't say that it was "Arizona" tea). The hard disk with the video was removed after the story broke, and it has been subpoenaed by investigators for the state and/or county. The company has not made it available to the media. The public relations director could not specify the exact time of the purchase but said it was between 6:00 and 6:30.

Just as Martin did not go straight home after he first spotted the neighborhood watch captain, so, too, he apparently did not go directly to Brandy Green's apartment from the 7-Eleven. What exactly he was doing between the time he entered the gated community and the moment Zimmerman noticed him will probably never be known. Though there may be some plausible explanation for his behavior, the idea that he was simply returning from a selfless errand when he caught Zimmerman's eye seems less and less likely.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012...trayvon_martins_final_hour.html#ixzz1rkOHg6rW

 

[soundforbjt]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-cru...n-neighborhood/story?id=16103091#.T4Wl_nm17ox

An "un-named official", sounds just like Fox News reporting to me.

From the same link:

"Are we a kindling box? Sure," said Mayor Jeff Triplett. "But we're working down a path and so far it's been absolutely peaceful."

 

[corwin]

An "un-named official", sounds just like Fox News reporting to me.

From the same link:

Yet you fail to note from the same link:

He said noting the city hopes to avoid conflict violence, even allowing protesters to blockade the police department Monday and shutting it down.

Basically they're bowing to the mobs...

 

[CLite]

Casing houses to rob?

how pedantic......

 

[Pens1566]

There is video of what is likely Martin at the 7-11. But he's there around 6-6:30, exact time not known since the tape has been taken into evidence.

Just what was martin doing between the store and the zimmerman call? Casing houses to rob?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012...estions_about_trayvon_martins_final_hour.html

More likely he was practicing his "ghetto stomp" for the entire .6 mile walk back to the development. How fast can you walk that in the rain?

 

[soundforbjt]

Yet you fail to note from the same link:



Basically they're bowing to the mobs...

And you fail to note from the same link:

A group of armed neo-Nazis from the National Socialist Movement have descended upon the town, touting their intention to patrol the town to protect whites against a race riot.
"We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over," Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement told The Miami NewTimes.
The Rev. Terry Jones, the controversial pastor who once threatened to burn copies of the Koran, announced last week his plan to hold a rally on April 21 at the Seminole County Courthouse in support of Zimmerman and his constitutional rights.

It's not just the black community...

 

[spidey07]

how pedantic......

Zimmerman said he was looking at the houses. Given Martin's thug history it's very likely he was looking for a house to break into and rob.

 

[lotus503]

DVC your credibility as an attorney gets lower and lower with each post where you try to inject your seemingly biased opinions.

As an attorney who has supposedly dealt defending something similar to this, you should know that this case has an overwhelming amount of evidence compared to most cases.


We have the shooter, the weapon, (edit: 4) credible witnesses who saw the same thing, numerous 911 calls with recordings that back eyewitness accounts, fresh wounds on zimmerman that match all accounts, the body of the supposed attacker, lie detector tests, numerous recorded testimony the night of the attack..



I mean seriously... The only thing you could ask for is an HD 3d movie of the attack itself.



Now, there might not be evidence that supports your predetermined conclusion, but that wouldn't be a very ethical thing to present to all of us, would it?

I think he did something wrong by getting out of the car and following him.

Now legally that may not be a crime. But I think he demonstrated awful judgement that night and was wrong in his actions leading up to the confrontation.

Legally he may have had the right to behave like he did, just like legally you can eat oreos 24/7, doesnt mean it smart or should be acceptable to society.

 

[Pens1566]

Zimmerman said he was looking at the houses. Given Martin's thug history it's very likely he was looking for a house to break into and rob.

Or he was unfamiliar with the neighborhood and in the dark with it raining he was looking for the house he was going to? Nah, couldn't be. Too easy.

 

[CLite]

Zimmerman said he was looking at the houses. Given Martin's thug history it's very likely he was looking for a house to break into and rob.

It was raining (hence the hoodie up) and he took cover under the common area overhang, there are like 10 million articles on this incident so I don't want to dig through it but I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that's where Zimmerman first spotted him.

 

[lotus503]

Zimmerman said he was looking at the houses. Given Martin's thug history it's very likely he was looking for a house to break into and rob.

lol More fantasy.

 

[HumblePie]

Again, that is a statement of opinion, not fact. Nobody but Mr. Zimmerman knows whether his actions were motivated, in whole or in part, by racism. Certainly the Martins don't know, and they obviously don't trust Mr. Zimmerman to accurately report that. (For my part, I have consistently said that I don't believe this crime was a racist act on his part, but I might well feel differently if I were black and my son were the one lying in the morgue, and in any case, a man who has killed another and might be charged with capital murder is not generally a reliable source of information regarding his own motivations.) The First Amendment gives them license to speculate about his motives and draw whatever conclusions they believe are warranted. I have not actually seen them say unequivocally, "George Zimmerman killed our son because he is a racist and our son was black," but even if they did it would not be actionable, because it is not a statement of present fact which is provably false.

Speculations and allegations are one thing. They specifically claimed that the police had evidence that the whole "murder" was racially motivated. And that it was good ol' boys that covered it up. It wasn't an allegation or speculation. They claimed they KNEW for a FACT that Zimmerman shot their son because he was black and no other reason. That was their original statement. go look it up in the original NBC and ABC breaking of this to the national level.

You keep trying to dodge here and I'm not letting you.

If I said the following statement.

"X person killed my son because of Y reason. It is a fact and there is proof. The cops are also racists and swept it under the rug to protect person X."

That is pure textbook defamation especially when they do not know that for a fact and they know there is no proof. That was what was said. I dare you to state otherwise.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

An "un-named official", sounds just like Fox News reporting to me.

From the same link:

Yet many of you jumped on the info that the lead investigator was unconvinced with GZ sequence of events from the very same news site that was quoting "multiple sources"

multiple sources told ABC News

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T4WpkpLO-Sq

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Yet many of you jumped on the info that the lead investigator was unconvinced with GZ sequence of events from the very same news site that was quoting "multiple sources"



http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T4WpkpLO-Sq

But.... But.... if it doesn't support their agenda then it is not valid!!!

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Or he was unfamiliar with the neighborhood and in the dark with it raining he was looking for the house he was going to? Nah, couldn't be. Too easy.

And instead he literally could not see or hear zimmerman banging on doors, and thus tripped over him, and accidentally grabbed zimmerman's head while trying to hold himself up, and smashed it against the sidewalk a couple times. What a horrific chain of events which must've unfolded to end up with trayvon ON TOP of zimmerman beating his head in.

 

[HumblePie]

Other claims by the Parents,

"George Zimmerman hunted down our son like a dog."

Slanderous statement there Don?

 

[HumblePie]

Also, Don, you don't see to know your cases much do you for previous decisions like this. Where someone was incorrectly tried by the media with similar claims made against their character.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jewell

 

[airdata]

No, claiming he is racist is one thing.

Claiming he shot their child for Racially Motivated reasons is another. That is something they did. There is a clear distinction and I'm surprised you don't seem to see that Mr. Lawyer. One is an opinion, albeit a bad hurtful one, and the other is a defamation statement construction an action as a fact. The action is that Zimmerman shot their child because he was black. Nothing more and nothing less. That was a claim they and Crump originally put forth. They made that claim without due diligence to find out if that claim was truthful. That claim has since then caused harm to Zimmerman's character.

Dispute that Mr. Lawyer.

Which if you re-read my last post I said the exact same thing.

I don't think he was just out to kill a black person. He did however have suspicion that was based on the kid being black. I think the bigger part of the race issue lies w\ the police though.

From all accounts, it seems they pretty much just took the killers word for everything despite his criminal background w\ the felony assault on a police officer and domestic violence reports.

They saw a young black kid and took the killers word for it because just like him they were also seeing his skin color and believing he was capable of anything.

They didn't seem concerned with finding out that the kid lived right down the walk way from where he was killed or that the killer lived on the complete other side of the neighborhood. They didn't know any of that before they released the killer having taken his word for it and not waiting to investigate.


Look at some of the posters in this thread who have said things like people like trayvon should be wiped out... You see what we're dealing with here. It's 100% a racially charged case. Alot of the pro zimmerman people share this sentiment and that my friends, is racist.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I think he did something wrong by getting out of the car and following him.

Now legally that may not be a crime. But I think he demonstrated awful judgement that night and was wrong in his actions leading up to the confrontation.

Legally he may have had the right to behave like he did, just like legally you can eat oreos 24/7, doesnt mean it smart or should be acceptable to society.

I disagree. I hope that if one of my neighbors (let alone the neighborhood watch captain) saw some obvious punk thug looking between houses, acting suspicious, who ran away when merely asked what he's doing there, would do what zimmerman did... And knock on doors to notify everyone that a thug is running around potentially trying to break into houses again.


Zimmerman did exactly what any upstanding citizen SHOULD do when a punk thug is running around a neighborhood who has a history of break-ins.