Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Where do I state that John had any authority?

I have stated that while John was present, TM could have release GZ, if TM felt that he was in danger. Having John there would then have a witness to what ever GZ may have tried to do.

Did TM ever indicate to anyone that he felt he was in danger and needed help?

Instead, TM ignored John and the threat of his phone call to the police, not getting off of GZ.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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So you said "not wrong" = proper and legal
Now you are saying proper = legal
So therefore "not wrong" = legal

And therefore a not wrong decision is simply a legal decision? So as long as any decision anyone makes is legal it's therefore not wrong? Really? Is that really your argument?

You can not punish someone in this country for following the law.

The argument is that everything GZ did up to the point of the shooting was well within his legal rights.

To some, it may not be good common sense, but there was nothing illegal about what he was doing.

Had tbe law arrived 2-3 minutes sooner to see the actions of TM and there was no shot, the arguments being made against GZ would not be happening.

20/20 is being applied ONLY because of the end result.
 
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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
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Where do I state that John had any authority?

I have stated that while John was present, TM could have release GZ, if TM felt that he was in danger. Having John there would then have a witness to what ever GZ may have tried to do.

Did TM ever indicate to anyone that he felt he was in danger and needed help?

Instead, TM ignored John and the threat of his phone call to the police, not getting off of GZ.

So he ignored John. Why? What would have been TM's next play? Would he have been satisfied beating him up and then going directly to jail? Someone was watching him and was going to call the police, why would he be not afraid of the police or getting arrested and getting in trouble?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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So he ignored John. Why? What would have been TM's next play? Would he have been satisfied beating him up and then going directly to jail? Someone was watching him and was going to call the police, why would he be not afraid of the police or getting arrested and getting in trouble?

Intoxicated on cough syrup

Knew because he was 17 and previous dealings with him in high school they wouldn't do shit to him

Know that the police weren't going to be there immediately so he could continue his felony beating and terrorizing for a bit longer

Trying to keep it real, for his street cred. It's Slimm from da streets! Yo!
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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including eaglekeeper moderator extroardinaire .

My status as a Moderator has nothing to do with this thread and will be treated as a sarcastic Moderator callout the next time this happens.

EK
Admin
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
1.) You have to ignore TM has never been known to be violent. Never been arrested for violence and has never been suspended for violence.

Based on what we know now concerning Miami-Dade School police dept using the Baker Act rather than charging youths with crimes to improve criminal acts stats at the school TM attended I wouldn't be so sure of that. We know now that the jewelry that was in TM's backpack was not only incorrectly reported as "found property" but actually matches a stolen property report from a robbery that occurred mere blocks away from the high school he attended.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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Based on what we know now concerning Miami-Dade School police dept using the Baker Act rather than charge youths with crimes to improve criminal acts stats at the school TM attended I wouldn't be so sure of that. We know now that the jewelry that was in TM's backpack was not only incorrectly reported as "found property" but actually matches a stolen property report from a robbery that occurred mere blocks away from the high school he attended.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...what?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Whoa, whoa, whoa...what?

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-stolen-jewelry-and-burglary-tool/#more-62463


As mentioned, if you contact the victim of Miami-Dade burglary #PD111021-422483, and review with them the property confiscated by M-DSPD SRO Dunn listed under #2011-11477, we believe you will be able to return at least a portion of the stolen merchandise.
Perhaps some of the items returned may have sentimental, as well as obvious financial, value.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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So he ignored John. Why? What would have been TM's next play? Would he have been satisfied beating him up and then going directly to jail? Someone was watching him and was going to call the police, why would he be not afraid of the police or getting arrested and getting in trouble?

TM interaction with the police/law in Miami had demonstrated that he would not be held responsible for is actions.

Being a minor, he was untouchable.

He could beat GZ as much as he wanted and there would be little, if no consequences.

Also, if the law did show up, he had the ability to out run them through the development and then to safety of Brandy's place. The law would have to show up in silence from 4 directions to be able to pin him.

He had nothing to lose by confining his actions even after the threat.

Effect of coddling and being bounced around by the system
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
How so?

GZ was acting as part of the neighborhood watch. They have specific guidelines to follow to ensure member safety as well as liability. Notice how the HOA shelled out over a million dollars because of Zimmerman's clear violation of this.

What do you mean how so? Yes, they have specific guidelines. You just typed the key word: guidelines. They're not legally binding laws that someone like GZ needs to follow. GZ doesn't lose his right as a citizen of the US and a member of that community to get out of his truck and walk in the public domain anymore than TM was doing because he was a member of NW. I don't even know why this would need to be explained. It's...so common sensical it's like having a debate on the wetness of water.

And then you want to talk dispatcher?

No talking needs to be done on the dispatcher. The dispatcher is not GZs daddy and GZ isn't underage. Whatever the dispatcher suggests is in no way legally binding.

I've seen several people in here including eaglekeeper moderator extroardinaire posting as if the witness " john " had some kind of authority over Trayvon and that Trayvon should have stopped what he was doing because this " john " guy was there...

Well shit.. .if preople think John has some kind of authority, then it only stands to reason that a dispatcher who is a direct agent of the police department would therefore have more authority.

No one has suggested that (and if they have, they'd be wrong). "John" telling TM he is going to call the police isn't some legally binding spell cast upon TM, it's a warning to both of them that John is going to call the police so they better quit that sh1t out. Again, another water is wet common sensical thing we shouldn't even need to be discussing.

And that being the case it'd stand to reason that Zimmerman disregarded a figure of authority prior to the altercation happening and that the altercation only happened as a direct result of zimmerman disregarding authority.

I could go further into your post and correct some of your other opnions, but I'll just keep this brief.

Wowzers...you are completely mentally gone here. Completely.

Chuck
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
So you said "not wrong" = proper and legal
Now you are saying proper = legal
So therefore "not wrong" = legal

And therefore a not wrong decision is simply a legal decision? So as long as any decision anyone makes is legal it's therefore not wrong? Really? Is that really your argument?

It really depends on what context something is done whether it is both proper and legal. For example, I can go up to some stranger and tell them they're a fat ugly POS. Is that legal? Yep. Is it proper? No.

In the context of GZ IDing and following TM was that legal? Yep. From GZs perspective (and us knowing his perspective and the past context of the crime in his neighborhood) was that proper? Yep.

TM was both legally doing nothing wrong and, as far as we know so far, also properly going home (unless someone him looking into places is proved to be true, or, him hiding on someones porch or whatnot is determined to be true, etc.).

Really for you TM supporters, moving on from the dispatcher and NW "ZOMG Georgie didn't follow their directions/guidelines he was th3 1ll3g@lz!" speal would be a good idea. Since GZ was acting in both a legal and proper fashion given what he knew at the time, sticking to that as basically your only sole source of 'gotcha!' is going to backfire horribly.

Chuck
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
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I read these posts and am continuously startled that people allow their biases and prejudices to make their irrational statements sound rational. You guys continue to argue this issue in an emotional manner, largely devoid of reason.

Now, we again can argue whether there is enough evidence to convict GZ in a law of court. But to argue that somehow, TM, decided to ruthlessly attack GZ without a some fear just honestly sounds stupid.

To make that argument you have to ignore everything we know.

1.) You have to ignore TM has never been known to be violent. Never been arrested for violence and has never been suspended for violence.
2.) You then would have to believe that TM somehow broke from his senses decided that this guy who was following him in a car, who he may have seen on the phone and who was now following him on foot with 2 flashlights was somehow not a cop. And he had to decide this pretty quickly to jump on GZ the way he claims.
3.) You then would have to assume that a kid who's never known to be violent would just up and brutally attack this person he isn't sure is a cop or not. You would then have to believe he loses his mind literally and continues to beat this guy up for no reason or just because he felt like it even though he hears people saying they are calling the police. You then have to believe that he felt he could escape (to where since he lived there) or he wasn't scared of being arrested and ruining his life.

I mean, please, someone give me a rational story that jumps all those hurdles. But again, you can't, so you make stupid sounding excuses like he was on drugs (purple syrup), or he was some international king pin who had rep with the police and knew not matter what he did he wouldn't be arrested.

Again, you guys have completely let ur bias toward black youth cloud whatever judgment you may have had. In your mind of course all that is possible because black people are animals anyhow and like animals their behavior is irrational.

Above is what I wrote earlier. Go back to the las few posts esp. by Eagle and spidey and see if my point isn't made. Crazies....
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
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It really depends on what context something is done whether it is both proper and legal. For example, I can go up to some stranger and tell them they're a fat ugly POS. Is that legal? Yep. Is it proper? No.

In the context of GZ IDing and following TM was that legal? Yep. From GZs perspective (and us knowing his perspective and the past context of the crime in his neighborhood) was that proper? Yep.

TM was both legally doing nothing wrong and, as far as we know so far, also properly going home (unless someone him looking into places is proved to be true, or, him hiding on someones porch or whatnot is determined to be true, etc.).

Really for you TM supporters, moving on from the dispatcher and NW "ZOMG Georgie didn't follow their directions/guidelines he was th3 1ll3g@lz!" speal would be a good idea. Since GZ was acting in both a legal and proper fashion given what he knew at the time, sticking to that as basically your only sole source of 'gotcha!' is going to backfire horribly.

Chuck

You ask why no one understands your posts. Maybe because they are rife with circular logic.

This is what ur last few post boiled down to (minus all the extra language).

So you said "not wrong" = proper and legal
Now you are saying proper = legal
So "not wrong" = legal and legal
So therefore "not wrong" = legal

And therefore a not wrong decision is simply a legal decision? So as long as any decision anyone makes is legal it's therefore not wrong? Really? Is that really your argument?


Then you write the post above. Gosh..

 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Where do I state that John had any authority?

I have stated that while John was present, TM could have release GZ, if TM felt that he was in danger. Having John there would then have a witness to what ever GZ may have tried to do.

Did TM ever indicate to anyone that he felt he was in danger and needed help?

Instead, TM ignored John and the threat of his phone call to the police, not getting off of GZ.

We have 911 recordings of someone calling for "HELP" all the way to the shot. Is there any record of John calling out "GET OFF HIM, I AM CALLING THE POLICE!" other then in his own statement?
 

Darkman

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2013
4,033
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Jury duty notices are in the mail for George Zimmerman trial

Five-hundred people are being summoned.

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
4:43 p.m. EDT, May 1, 2013

SANFORD &#8211; They went into the mail Wednesday, the jury notice for people who must report to the Seminole County Courthouse June 10 and decide whether George Zimmerman is a murderer.

Five-hundred Seminole County residents are being summoned, although, there's nothing on the form letter they're about to receive that spells that out.

The only hint is that the letter will read: "Report Date: June 10."

And even that does not mean the person is certain to be called to courtroom 5D, the one being used for the Zimmerman second-degree murder trial by Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson.

That's because other judges at Seminole County's two courthouses &#8211; criminal and civil &#8211; also need jurors that day.

Read more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-trial-juror-summons-20130501,0,2387767.story
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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Druidx

Platinum Member
Jul 16, 2002
2,971
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We have 911 recordings of someone calling for "HELP" all the way to the shot. Is there any record of John calling out "GET OFF HIM, I AM CALLING THE POLICE!" other then in his own statement?

It didn't caught on any of the 911 calls but I remember one of the other witnesses mentioned it in their interview.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Updated gallery at Oralndo Sentinel: (17 photos)

Pictures: George Zimmerman's many faces

The appearance of George Zimmerman, who fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, has changed over the years, and dramatically since the case began.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...faces-gallery-20130501,0,1761259.photogallery

I think I see disfigurement of his face from the brutal beating.

That automatically makes martin's attack aggravated assault and battery, a forcible felony. No fear of life required, open fire. This case is so slam dunk self defense it's a travesty he was even arrested, let alone allowed to go this far.

372x500

384x480
 
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