Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Darkman]

I was getting ready to post the same article. Surprising how much was suppressed by the M-DSPD Chief Hurley to improve his records.

I found the following quite interesting...

Mr. sundance is very persistent ... lol

 

[Pens1566]

I post nothing but facts, backed by evidence and the brilliant WHITE truth.

Quoting for posterity. Lunatic.

 

[OCNewbie]

Of course, at this time the dispatcher still had a sliver of hope that they were talking to a rational citizen and not an irrational vigilate type who couldn't simply wait for police to arrive because after all, those assholes always get away.

It sounds as if you're claiming to have spoken with the dispatcher personally, or have a source that proves these were the thoughts of the dispatcher at the time, or his thoughts of the incident now. Can you clarify which one of these is true?

As a matter of fact, 'walking up and down the sidewalk where Trayvon had run would qualify as searching, following, etc. Especially given the fact that Zimmerman had agreed to meet w\ police across the street, but immediately changed his mind and said to have them call him as he didn't know where he was going to be.

But TM didn't walk up and down that sidewalk GZ was on. TM ran south down the T, GZ walked east, to RVC, stopped there for an unknown amount of time, and then returned west back to his truck, but claims he was confronted/attacked by TM when he got back to the T intersection. At the conclusion of the call, which is what matters, GZ had not agreed to meet the police at any specific location, and the dispatcher was fine with that "OK. Yeah, that's no problem."

This shows that he wasn't going back to his car, and that he was not willing to simply wait for police to arrive. And given the context of the situation there's absolutely nothing else Zimmerman would be doing out there.

But he was going back to his car. The altercation, by many indications, outside of GZ's statements, started at the T. The T intersection would have been directly on the path back to his vehicle (parked on TTL) with GZ walking west from RVC. And if you're going to argue he never was on RVC, the only proof you'll be able to provide is "I don't believe him", which I'm sorry to say is not sufficiently compelling.

You guys really need to work on your critical thinking skills.

The fact that we're not agreeing with you is proof we are doing just that.

 

[Darkman]

Over at CW they are now "waiting for Bernie to subpoena sundance into the courtroom".

I would pay to watch that...... :biggrin:

 

[waggy]

Maybe we will find out more about this jewelry ( found in TM backpack) and its value after all:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-stolen-jewelry-and-burglary-tool/#more-62463

wow.

the fallout of everything happening is amazing. I would say TM should have a beef with chief hurley and the police department. IF they would not have hidden the fact that TM was commiting crimes then perhaps he would have been busted. Either in juivie or at least knowing he can't/shouldn't do anything more and perhaps been on better behavior.

 

[Darkman]

Crump files appeal paperwork

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
10:58 a.m. EDT, May 1, 2013

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-crump-appeals-brief-20130501,0,2655785.story

---

Mr. Crump's Filings with the 5th DCA

on 01 May 2013.

The following documents have been filed with the Fifth District Court of Appeal:

PROPOSED RESPONDENT BENJAMIN L. CRUMP, ESQ.'S RESPONSE TO PETITION FOR WRIT OF CERTIORARI - http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/crump_response_to_petition.pdf

PROPOSED RESPONDENT BENJAMIN L. CRUMP, ESQ.'S UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR LEAVE TO RESPOND AND TO ACCEPT RESPONSE AS FILED - http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/crump_mot_for_leave.pdf

PROPOSED RESPONDENT BENJAMIN L. CRUMP, ESQ.'S INDEX TO SUPPLEMENTAL APPENDIX - http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/crump_index.pdf

Source: http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/155-mr-crumps-filings-with-the-5th-dca

 

[Darkman]

George Zimmerman Gained Some Serious Weight

George Zimmerman gains more than 100 pounds since fatally shooting Trayvon Martin - The murder defendant now tips the scales at more than 300 pounds amid what a spokesman calls ‘an incredibly stressful situation.’​

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That was just one of his countless lies in this thread.

Now airdata and Dee Dee are known liars, nothing they say should be considered or believed. If ya know whut I mean

 

[emperus]

This thread.. Delusional City. Wow. This could be easily a study on how people reinforce and thus create their own realities.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Look at that big ole pillsbury dough boy. And you all are claiming he chased after and attacked that thug???



Jury of 6.... And it only takes 1.

 

[spidey07]

Look at that big ole pillsbury dough boy. And you all are claiming he chased after and attacked that thug???



Jury of 6.... And it only takes 1.

I don't know, now he really is that huge hulking white racist who chased down the little boy with his skittles and tea for loving brother just watching the basketball game.

 

[airdata]

It sounds as if you're claiming to have spoken with the dispatcher personally, or have a source that proves these were the thoughts of the dispatcher at the time, or his thoughts of the incident now. Can you clarify which one of these is true?

You can hear the shock in his voice when he realizes GZ has left his car. Since rational citizens calling the police don't just leave their car to go after the people they're calling the police on.

But TM didn't walk up and down that sidewalk GZ was on. TM ran south down the T, GZ walked east, to RVC, stopped there for an unknown amount of time, and then returned west back to his truck, but claims he was confronted/attacked by TM when he got back to the T intersection. At the conclusion of the call, which is what matters, GZ had not agreed to meet the police at any specific location, and the dispatcher was fine with that "OK. Yeah, that's no problem."

GZ wasn't walking there, and yet he gets in a fight w\ Trayvon around the T after having declined to meet with police when they arrive.

You guys really should make up your mind.

But he was going back to his car. The altercation, by many indications, outside of GZ's statements, started at the T. The T intersection would have been directly on the path back to his vehicle (parked on TTL) with GZ walking west from RVC. And if you're going to argue he never was on RVC, the only proof you'll be able to provide is "I don't believe him", which I'm sorry to say is not sufficiently compelling.

Was going to go back to his car after 2-3 minutes of continuing to look for trayvon/keeping an eye out for trayvon/searching for trayvon... however you want to word it.

He declined to wait and meet with police and decided to do his own thing when magically a physical altercation breaks out after he's made all of the wrong decisions.

Again. If he was not waiting on police at the agreed upon location, or getting back in his car, he was continuing to ' go after' trayvon in one way or another. He had no other business being there that night other than going after Trayvon.

The fact that we're not agreeing with you is proof we are doing just that.

There's nothing to agree or disagree with. There's only facts. You guys can pick and choose as much as you want but in a court room, the opinion of guys like you and spidey will mean absolutely nothing. The official police report which mirrors many of my main points however will mean a great deal.

 

[chucky2]

Made all the wrong decisions? How to you make a "wrong" decision that is both legal and proper? It really sounds like when TM supporters say this they're genuinely mad that people actually take perfectly legal actions to keep track of shady looking characters in their neighborhood.

What do you all do? Call the police and cower in your homes?

 

[Druidx]

You can hear the shock in his voice when he realizes GZ has left his car. Since rational citizens calling the police don't just leave their car to go after the people they're calling the police on.

.

Here is more of your shock and awe

Banned from the new forum the same day it opens
Everyone tells him he's wrong when he asked
Classic troll tactic?
Wrong 4 out of 4 times, a new record
Liar Liar... LMAO

 

[emperus]

Made all the wrong decisions? How to you make a "wrong" decision that is both legal and proper? It really sounds like when TM supporters say this they're genuinely mad that people actually take perfectly legal actions to keep track of shady looking characters in their neighborhood.

What do you all do? Call the police and cower in your homes?

Hmm. Interesting irrational post. You define a "right" decision as one that is both legal and proper and then decide yourself that it was proper. What a novel argument. lol.

But, as we all know he was advised by the police dispatcher not to follow him. "we don't need you to do that" So, the decision wasn't too proper was it?

 

[emperus]

I read these posts and am continuously startled that people allow their biases and prejudices to make their irrational statements sound rational. You guys continue to argue this issue in an emotional manner, largely devoid of reason.

Now, we again can argue whether there is enough evidence to convict GZ in a law of court. But to argue that somehow, TM, decided to ruthlessly attack GZ without a some fear just honestly sounds stupid.

To make that argument you have to ignore everything we know.

1.) You have to ignore TM has never been known to be violent. Never been arrested for violence and has never been suspended for violence.
2.) You then would have to believe that TM somehow broke from his senses decided that this guy who was following him in a car, who he may have seen on the phone and who was now following him on foot with 2 flashlights was somehow not a cop. And he had to decide this pretty quickly to jump on GZ the way he claims.
3.) You then would have to assume that a kid who's never known to be violent would just up and brutally attack this person he isn't sure is a cop or not. You would then have to believe he loses his mind literally and continues to beat this guy up for no reason or just because he felt like it even though he hears people saying they are calling the police. You then have to believe that he felt he could escape (to where since he lived there) or he wasn't scared of being arrested and ruining his life.

I mean, please, someone give me a rational story that jumps all those hurdles. But again, you can't, so you make stupid sounding excuses like he was on drugs (purple syrup), or he was some international king pin who had rep with the police and knew not matter what he did he wouldn't be arrested.

Again, you guys have completely let ur bias toward black youth cloud whatever judgment you may have had. In your mind of course all that is possible because black people are animals anyhow and like animals their behavior is irrational.

 

[Druidx]

Hmm. Interesting irrational post. You define a "right" decision as one that is both legal and proper and then decide yourself that it was proper. What a novel argument. lol.

But, as we all know he was advised by the police dispatcher not to follow him. "we don't need you to do that" So, the decision wasn't too proper was it?

Which Zimmerman responded "Okay", so what’s your point. Did the dispatcher think it was proper for GZ to not immediately return to his vehicle, apparently so since the dispatcher replied “Okay, no problem” when Zimmerman asked to have the police call him when they arrived.

I read an interesting post on Talkleft, people keeping bringing up how Serino wanted to charge Zimmerman.

“Serino had to invent a hitherto unknown legal standard, to wit, "Zimmerman could have prevented the outcome" (by staying in his vehicle or by apprising Martin of his concern), in order to justify the conclusion that the state attorney could/should charge Zimmerman. If the standard for prosecution is "Zimmerman got out of his truck," then yes, there is plenty of evidence. But that is NOT the standard, and I have not seen any document that sets for the evidence vs. the legal standard, that justifies charging Zimmerman.”

Neither of the two actions is criminal, which probable explains why the DA didn’t bring charges.

 

[spidey07]

Are you trying to say martin did NOT commit a forcible felony? Because all the evidence proves he did.

Just how do you think zimmerman got those injuries? Are you trying to say martin was NOT on top beating and/or straddling zimmerman seconds before being shot?

The way the martin folks are viewing this, in spite of overwhelming amounts of evidence, is simply sickening. The only logical reason is they are VERY racist to believe their fairy tales.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You can hear the shock in his voice when he realizes GZ has left his car. Since rational citizens calling the police don't just leave their car to go after the people they're calling the police on.

.

Here is more of your shock and awe

Banned from the new forum the same day it opens
Everyone tells him he's wrong when he asked
Classic troll tactic?
Wrong 4 out of 4 times, a new record
Liar Liar... LMAO

airdata hears what he wants to hear, sees what he wants to see and us skilled at distortions.

Similar to people in the psychiatric wards.

Because he is not fully competent (per above examples), the words and statements become questionable.

Such explains him and the fact that he can not distinguish and tell the truth.


So do not hold it against him because of this mental flaw.

I do not, I just accept that he has problems with the real world and move on.

 

[emperus]

Which Zimmerman responded "Okay", so what’s your point. Did the dispatcher think it was proper for GZ to not immediately return to his vehicle, apparently so since the dispatcher replied “Okay, no problem” when Zimmerman asked to have the police call him when they arrived.

I read an interesting post on Talkleft, people keeping bringing up how Serino wanted to charge Zimmerman.

“Serino had to invent a hitherto unknown legal standard, to wit, "Zimmerman could have prevented the outcome" (by staying in his vehicle or by apprising Martin of his concern), in order to justify the conclusion that the state attorney could/should charge Zimmerman. If the standard for prosecution is "Zimmerman got out of his truck," then yes, there is plenty of evidence. But that is NOT the standard, and I have not seen any document that sets for the evidence vs. the legal standard, that justifies charging Zimmerman.”

Neither of the two actions is criminal, which probable explains why the DA didn’t bring charges.

This what I responded to

Made all the wrong decisions? How to you make a "wrong" decision that is both legal and proper? It really sounds like when TM supporters say this they're genuinely mad that people actually take perfectly legal actions to keep track of shady looking characters in their neighborhood.

What do you all do? Call the police and cower in your homes?

In order to keep track of someone who is on the move you would have to be following them right? So if chucky2 believed GZ was keeping track of or following TM that would be in direct opposition to the dispatcher's directions, right? Making his decision improper, right?

Ok...

The rest of what you wrote is noise intended to distract from your losing argument and has no bearing on the post you replied to.

 

[airdata]

airdata hears what he wants to hear, sees what he wants to see and us skilled at distortions.

Similar to people in the psychiatric wards.

Because he is not fully competent (per above examples), the words and statements become questionable.

Such explains him and the fact that he can not distinguish and tell the truth.


So do not hold it against him because of this mental flaw.

I do not, I just accept that he has problems with the real world and move on.

First of all... LOL @ druid. Poor guy still has to get a poke in despite having nothing to counter my post with.

I state a fact, sure enough, this wise and beautiful woman is there to post about how I got banned once from the forum!! That clearly beats a simply fact.

And Eagle, what are you going on about? I'm confused how you make such insulting statements toward me despite the fact that on numerous occasions you agree with what I've posted albeit with the caveat of saying that while true, it doesn't matter.

For example, racial profiling... and Zimmerman's irrational actions and/or playing police.

While many of your peers pretend my statements to be outlandish, you've actually corroborated the racial profiling. You've actually had the balls to discuss the fact that Zimmerman was apparently fed up and took matters into his own hands because he was sick of 'those assholes always getting away'.

So Eagle, that being the case.... whats your deal?

There's many incidents of you outright agreeing with my posts, and yet you come w\ this weak shit...? You really do confuse me. One minute you're saying one thing. The next another thing.

That and the fact you're a mod just adds to the confusion.. You're on a forum you moderate suggesting I have psychiatric problems for posting simple facts.

I know you want to go say heil hitler w\ your buddy spidey, but that doesn't excuse the fact that you're doing just like some of the worst members on the board in that you're replying to simple statements of fact and pretending their made up.

We keep telling you about the mod callout thing. You keep not listening.
admin allisolm

 

[chucky2]

Hmm. Interesting irrational post. You define a "right" decision as one that is both legal and proper and then decide yourself that it was proper. What a novel argument. lol.

But, as we all know he was advised by the police dispatcher not to follow him. "we don't need you to do that" So, the decision wasn't too proper was it?

I'm not sure why this is so confusing to TM supporters: 911 dispatcher and Neighborhood Watch guidelines are meaningless. They have no legal bearing. GZ was perfectly in his legal rights to get out of his truck and keep an eye on TM, just as TM was in his legal rights to be walking where he was (well, we're assuming he was walking where he was supposed to). Given all that: Yes, what GZ did was proper.

This is now like the 4th time this has been explained in this thread that I know of.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

In order to keep track of someone who is on the move you would have to be following them right? So if chucky2 believed GZ was keeping track of or following TM that would be in direct opposition to the dispatcher's directions, right?

He'd be in direction opposition to the dispatchers comment that GZ didn't need to do that, and the implied intent that the police don't want civilians exposing themselves to danger. None of that has any legal bearing or bearing on what is proper or not.

Making his decision improper, right?

No, making GZ's decision quite proper as he was perfectly in his legal rights to go see where the shady character he was observing had run off to, and he made the personal decision to potentially trade his physical safety in the hopes of finally allowing the police to nab one of these shady characters. So: All quite proper.

Ok...

The rest of what you wrote is noise intended to distract from your losing argument and has no bearing on the post you replied to.

I think maybe you should rethink your thinking. There is no way for me to lose my argument, as what GZ did was quite legal and thus proper in the context he was operating under. I'm sorry this flies in the face of you TM 'Civilians need to cower in their homes' folks, but, thems the breaks. Sometimes, thankfully, we have people in our neighborhoods who aren't afraid to put a personal stake in their neighborhoods welfare. Sucks huh?

Chuck

 

[airdata]

I'm not sure why this is so confusing to TM supporters: 911 dispatcher and Neighborhood Watch guidelines are meaningless. They have no legal bearing. GZ was perfectly in his legal rights to get out of his truck and keep an eye on TM, just as TM was in his legal rights to be walking where he was (well, we're assuming he was walking where he was supposed to). Given all that: Yes, what GZ did was proper.

This is now like the 4th time this has been explained in this thread that I know of.

Chuck

How so?

GZ was acting as part of the neighborhood watch. They have specific guidelines to follow to ensure member safety as well as liability. Notice how the HOA shelled out over a million dollars because of Zimmerman's clear violation of this.

And then you want to talk dispatcher? I've seen several people in here including eaglekeeper moderator extroardinaire posting as if the witness " john " had some kind of authority over Trayvon and that Trayvon should have stopped what he was doing because this " john " guy was there...

Well shit.. .if preople think John has some kind of authority, then it only stands to reason that a dispatcher who is a direct agent of the police department would therefore have more authority.

And that being the case it'd stand to reason that Zimmerman disregarded a figure of authority prior to the altercation happening and that the altercation only happened as a direct result of zimmerman disregarding authority.


I could go further into your post and correct some of your other opnions, but I'll just keep this brief.

 

[emperus]

I'm not sure why this is so confusing to TM supporters: 911 dispatcher and Neighborhood Watch guidelines are meaningless. They have no legal bearing. GZ was perfectly in his legal rights to get out of his truck and keep an eye on TM, just as TM was in his legal rights to be walking where he was (well, we're assuming he was walking where he was supposed to). Given all that: Yes, what GZ did was proper.

This is now like the 4th time this has been explained in this thread that I know of.

Chuck

So you said "not wrong" = proper and legal
Now you are saying proper = legal
So therefore "not wrong" = legal

And therefore a not wrong decision is simply a legal decision? So as long as any decision anyone makes is legal it's therefore not wrong? Really? Is that really your argument?