UK at'ers..what is your view on Scottish independence?

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ThatsABigOne

ThatsABigOne

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
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I hope the independence doesn't pull through as I am not willing to purchase another map/globus/etc. :\
 
norseamd

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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WelshBloke said:
European commission says no. In fact they say that it's unlikely that Scotland would even be allowed to join the EU.
Click to expand...

I am wondering what their official reasoning on their dismissals are.

Edit: I already knew there was conflict about this issue but as far as I know there was no agreement on anything. I think most of the vitriol on Scotland and Catalonia and their possible relations with the EU were actually from British and possibly Spanish Government Officials who may or may not of had any involvement in the EU themselves.
 
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WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,162
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norseamd said:
I am wondering what their official reasoning on their dismissals are.

Edit: I already knew there was conflict about this issue but as far as I know there was no agreement on anything. I think most of the vitriol on Scotland and Catalonia and their possible relations with the EU were actually from British and possibly Spanish Government Officials who may or may not of had any involvement in the EU themselves.
Click to expand...
It's just that Scotland won't meet the requirements that all countries have to meet to join.

Mr Salmond insisted (and continues to insist) that they would be "grandfathered in" even though there's no mechanism for that.

The Yes campaign has been spectacularly good at just ignoring fundamental issues concerning independence (currency, national borders...), it's going to be entertaining to see them panic if they do actually win. :)
 
norseamd

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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How exactly does a extra-sovereignty union require prospective members have their own currency when most current members of the EU do not even have their own currencies?

Just reading now it seems that if Scotland wants to join the EU they either have to have their own currency supported by a central bank or they have to adopt the Euro. Scotland could not keep the Pound Sterling and then join the EU.
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,162
11,342
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norseamd said:
How exactly does a extra-sovereignty union require prospective members have their own currency when most current members of the EU do not even have their own currencies?

Just reading now it seems that if Scotland wants to join the EU they either have to have their own currency supported by a central bank or they have to adopt the Euro. Scotland could not keep the Pound Sterling and then join the EU.
Click to expand...

Yeah they need a central bank and to maintain their economy within bounds set by the EU to join the EU, and to adopt the Euro they need to join the EU.

So the question is what currency are they going to use in between losing the Pound and gaining the Euro?
 
norseamd

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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Their own obviously.

Seems like a lot of wasteful work and cost to make and then support your own currency just to adopt another currency.
 
norseamd

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
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How much of this is even worth going through if England is going to leave to EU in 2017?

The EU is fragile as it is so I am wondering why Scotland might want to join at all?
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,162
11,342
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norseamd said:
How much of this is even worth going through if England is going to leave to EU in 2017?

The EU is fragile as it is so I am wondering why Scotland might want to join at all?
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Because it sidesteps the currency issue, the freedom of movement issue, the right to work in the UK issue...
 
SOFTengCOMPelec

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
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I don't understand how things can be neck and neck, given that there are so many apparently unanswered questions, such as the currency and how things are going to pan out between Scotland and England, in the future, over various issues.
 
Phoenix86

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
WelshBloke said:
I think the border issues, the trident shipyards, what currency Scotland uses and if the UK has to back it, who is the lender of last resort for Scottish banks, and a bunch of other things could well be a pain in the arse not just for the Scottish but for the remainder of the Union.

In short its a bad, bad idea driven by romanticism and emotion but lacking any real planning or solutions for the problems it causes.
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I doubt very many countries were formed any differently.

It raises an interesting question, can a region vote themselves out of their governing body? There's lots of wildly different scenarios over time with different results.
 
SOFTengCOMPelec

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
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I think MANY people were NOT expecting this to happen (it still might NOT). It certainly is taking me by surprise, as I was NOT expecting it to happen.

So if this is really going to happen, then there appear to be a number of major issues, which although they would primarily affect Scotland, in practice, I would expect them to bite back, and affect England and the rest of the UK directly/indirectly for various reasons.

This could end up being a big disaster, for Scotland/England and the rest of the UK.

The problem is, if Scotland was suffering badly over this, I can imagine various ways, in which that would impact the rest of the UK.
 
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Phoenix86

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
WelshBloke said:
I think a region absolutely should have the right to autonomy.
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So you support Crimea, "pro-russian" separatists in Ukraine, and Islamic State.

Terrorist. ;)

On a more serious note, there'd be a dozen new states formed overnight if this was the case. Kurds in Iraq would be a much less polarizing example.
 
IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,926
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Given that no one asked to be English in the first place, leaving the Union makes perfect sense.
 
M

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
16
81
I was pretty much certain that this was going to be a big nothing, and that the result was going to be a resounding no; mainly because the politicians on the "yes" side put forth such bad arguments and were simply unable to come up with answers to show-stopper problems.

The costs to all sides after a yes vote would be enormous; the "yes" side haven't got a sensible plan for what to do about a currency, a rapidly declining and aging population, and rapidly declining oil/gas revenues. Further roUK is expected to accept a very generous apportionment of national debt (6% as compared with 13% of population or 9% of GDP).

You can be pretty sure that there will be a lot of blowback and deflection of blame, when all these "unexpected" things blow up.
 
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