UK at'ers..what is your view on Scottish independence?

[etrigan420]

I think that all international negotiations should be held in comedy overly stereotypical accents.

Austria!? Well, then. G'day mate! Let's put another shrimp on the barbie!

 

[IronWing]

Austria!? Well, then. G'day mate! Let's put another shrimp on the barbie!

Things were better when the Habsburgs were in charge. Oh, wait...

 

[norseamd]

I still don't know (or care that much) what is going on with this situation...

It kinda looks like Quebec, but it's not due to the language issue thing -- as far as I know, Scotland doesn't have a language police to "protect" Quebec culture.

No certainly not the Scottish Gaelic language.

 

[norseamd]

That is true, by god! And I swear that I will neither rest nor take pleasure in anything until Wessex and Northumbria are restored and free!

Did I ever say Wessex or Northumbria. Then again I think the axe ruling Northumbria again would be fucking awesome.

 

[norseamd]

I think for the current time more autonomy is preferred for the various regions. The issues that would arise right now especially with the economy look to be too much. Besides right now I am not in favor of Scottish independence until the Orkney and Shetland islands can gain their independence from Scotland. I am afraid that Scotland would just try to assimilate the Orkney and Shetland islands. The Orcadians and Shetlanders view themselves as Orcadians and Shetlanders not as British or Scottish.

 

[Lepton87]

I'm somewhat confused as to the exact nature of the relationship between the UK and its constituents which I believe are England, Whales, Northern Ireland and Scotland . When asked what country UK residents are from they usually say they are from the UK and not from England or Whales, treating it like a country.(or maybe I got that wrong and they say that they are from UK when asked where they are from but say England,Whales etc. when asked what country they are from) Is UK more like a country or more like an union of countries like the EU only much more tightly coupled or maybe something like the USA? If it is a country then why does it have 4 different national teams in sports? We don't have the UK team but we have England(great performance in Brasil:sarcasm, Scotland etc.

 

[norseamd]

Hey Lepton87 read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence

 

[Markbnj]

Did I ever say Wessex or Northumbria. Then again I think the axe ruling Northumbria again would be fucking awesome.

Well, they were just two countries off the top of my head that used to exist and had independent cultural identity and now don't exist.

Restore Prussia!

 

[lothar]

I'm fine with a Scottish Independence because not only do I want to see them suffer and the hilarity that ensues, I also favor seeing a Brexit which is more likely to happen if Scotland leaves.
Scotland won't be able to use the British pound. They also won't be able to join the EU, period.
For any country to join the EU, they need ALL current EU member states to approve it.

 

[Lepton87]

Hey Lepton87 read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence

I read most of that but the only take-away I get from this is that Irish Republic split into two entities, most of the country got its independence from the UK, however a small part stayed with the UK. The part that stayed is actually the poorest region in British Isles in terms of GDP Per capita at just $25K(PPP), it's still a developed first world country(or province as some call it)but
it's economy lags considerably behind the UK's economy as a whole which has a GDP per capita of $43,830 (Nominal) and $38,71 (PPP). Wales does not compare favorably in terms of the Economy either. Wales has GDP per capita of $30K, only Scotland and England have better than average GNP per Capita in the UK. $44,378 for Scotland and $50,5K(nominal) for England. So Aside from England, only Scotland does not drag the UK economy down.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm somewhat confused as to the exact nature of the relationship between the UK and its constituents which I believe are England, Whales, Northern Ireland and Scotland . When asked what country UK residents are from they usually say they are from the UK and not from England or Whales, treating it like a country.(or maybe I got that wrong and they say that they are from UK when asked where they are from but say England,Whales etc. when asked what country they are from) Is UK more like a country or more like an union of countries like the EU only much more tightly coupled or maybe something like the USA? If it is a country then why does it have 4 different national teams in sports? We don't have the UK team but we have England(great performance in Brasil:sarcasm, Scotland etc.

Firstly its "Wales", I'm contractually required to correct you there.

Technically the UK (Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland) is one country. We share the same passport and currency.
Historically and culturally they are all distinct areas. Call a Scotsman in a Glasgow pub an Englishman and youre probably going to have a bad evening.

Think of it like any other country, there are regional areas that people have strong ties to. The reason they sometimes get treated as different countries is there are some BIG cultural differences going on.
Wales has its own language that a large proportion of the population speaks, Scotland has its as well (it has two IIRC) but its not really as widespread (Other areas of the UK have there languages as well, Cornish is making a bit of a come back). These are different languages BTW not just dialects of English (theres a butt ton of those as well).

Politically the regions differ vastly as well with England swaying more to the centre right and Scotland and Wales having a much more socialist flavour.

We are much more tightly bound than countries in the EU. We are one country. Why we get away with having lots of football and rugby teams I dont know really. I guess that as we invented the games and were in there from the start we get a bit of a by there.
Plus the only football team that matters is the English one (its a big achievement if one of the other teams even qualifies for anything) and with rugby there is a UK team, but they are more of a touring showboating think (think the Harlem globetrotters type thing).


In short we are one country, but for a small nation we are incredibly diverse and have a very crowded and long history (not all of it particularly laudable, we did take over most of the World for awhile).

 

[iGas]

Scotland has a lot of oil, but I wouldn't want to bank a countries future on oil deposits.

There is nothing in Scotland, outside of the North Sea oil & gas, Naval base & shipyard, and government handouts. Hence, they are only threaten, becuase they are a spoiled entitlement bunch that is similar to Quebec.

IMHO, Scots are not going to separate because they know that the UK will not let them have the North Sea oil, shipyards, naval base, infastructures for free, and they have to service their debt of £143bn ($250 billions, or $47,214 per person) right after independence that they do not have the cash, infastructure, credit, or capabililty to pay.

 

[norseamd]

Historically and culturally they are all distinct areas. Call a Scotsman in a Glasgow pub an Englishman and youre probably going to have a bad evening.

Or maybe your face will have a bad evening.

In short we are one country, but for a small nation we are incredibly diverse and have a very crowded and long history (not all of it particularly laudable, we did take over most of the World for awhile).

You are as much one country as Austria-Hungary was. My guess is most citizens of the respective countries want independence but they do not want to go about it in a way that is going to cause massive shit.

 

[tommo123]

I'm somewhat confused as to the exact nature of the relationship between the UK and its constituents which I believe are England, Whales, Northern Ireland and Scotland . When asked what country UK residents are from they usually say they are from the UK and not from England or Whales, treating it like a country.(or maybe I got that wrong and they say that they are from UK when asked where they are from but say England,Whales etc. when asked what country they are from) Is UK more like a country or more like an union of countries like the EU only much more tightly coupled or maybe something like the USA? If it is a country then why does it have 4 different national teams in sports? We don't have the UK team but we have England(great performance in Brasil:sarcasm, Scotland etc.

no, most seem to say where they're from. i would say i'm from Wales (not a whale - that's a sea mammal. would be very weird coming from one of those).

when speaking to foreigners who have poor geographical knowledge outside their own country i would say british but quickly correct them if they say "oh you're english/from england".

 

[tommo123]

what i am curious about in all this is what happens if they do split?

they wont be british any more so their passports are invalid no? anyone born in scotland can then be deported? they wouldn't have a visa to work so would lose their jobs.

how the hell would that work?

 

[tommo123]

Or maybe your face will have a bad evening.



You are as much one country as Austria-Hungary was. My guess is most citizens of the respective countries want independence but they do not want to go about it in a way that is going to cause massive shit.

no, he's right. you'd get punched, or if unlucky, glassed and end up trying to pull shards out of your face and hoping a piece didn't get into your eyes.

seriously. saw that shit once and you don't want it. calling a welsh, irish or a scot english is an insult. have to imagine it's like calling a canadian a yank. they're nicer about it though, might just send a moose after you :awe:

 

[unokitty]

The land beneath my feet (Texas) has had six flags flown over it. So, I'm not overly invested in any of them.

From a historical perspective, nation states are a relatively recent phenomena.

From my perspective, technology has evolved in a manner that negates the need to belong to a large nation state.

The Scottish independence question is interesting. From a theoretical perspective, its hard for me to see how a larger state could be more responsive and/or more efficient than a smaller state.

For example, Estonia seems to be doing quite well as an independent state.

Older technology favored larger more vertically integrated states. Newer technology favors smaller more horizontally integrated states.

My expectation is that we will continue to see more issues regarding the break up of the older large nation states.

That said, I'm looking forward to a more decentralized future with less emphasis on large nation states and their warlike behaviors...

Wishing the Scottish people luck,

Uno

 

[norseamd]

From a historical perspective, nation states are a relatively recent phenomena.

But these cultures are most certainly not.

 

[acheron]

Restore Prussia!

Yeah, Poland might have something to say about that.

 

[Markbnj]

Yeah, Poland might have something to say about that.

Oh so now Poland is special. Fuck it, I demand the restoration of the Ottoman Empire in its entirety, with myself as the Sultan of the Sublime Porte.

 

[Lepton87]

Firstly its "Wales", I'm contractually required to correct you there.

You have to admit that you have a lot of whales, that's probably why that word stuck in my head.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ope-1-in-12-are-clinically-obese-9450203.html

I've been to UK just a few times but it seems that the woman there already made a lasting impression on me.

On a serious note thanks for the correction it won't happen again I promise.

So, it is not correct to refer to England as a country, is it? That's how wikipedia refers to it but the dictionary doesn't.
"the largest division of the United Kingdom, constituting, with Scotland and Wales, the island of Great Britain."
So I guess I can't trust everything I read on wiki.

 

[norseamd]

England is a country.

The united Kingdom is a nation state per se.

 

[Lonyo]

what i am curious about in all this is what happens if they do split?

they wont be british any more so their passports are invalid no? anyone born in scotland can then be deported? they wouldn't have a visa to work so would lose their jobs.

how the hell would that work?

No one knows. They haven't worked that out yet. They want people to vote on independence, but they don't know what independence will actually mean, including things like what currency Scotland would use.

 

[Drako]

 

[tommo123]

No one knows. They haven't worked that out yet. They want people to vote on independence, but they don't know what independence will actually mean, including things like what currency Scotland would use.

i know they want to use the pound but how could they? they wouldn't have any say in what the BoE sets as interest rates. scotland needs low interest rates but england/wales needs higher - that means interest rates would rise and scotland can suck it.