UF student gets tasered at John Kerrys speech while asking a question

[jlee]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: glutenberg


Have you tried carrying someone while they're struggling and especially when the person you're carrying is as large as the student in the video?

Watch the video, unless you call countinuing to rant a struggle.

TallBill considers flailing as an attack, he is a cop and a solder. I don't get it though. To me flailing is just flailing, even if I get hit the blow would be so ineffective. I guess it could make some cry though.

Regardless of whether or not it hits anything, flailing constitutes resisting arrest.

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Have you tried carrying someone while they're struggling and especially when the person you're carrying is as large as the student in the video?

Basic arm bar or come along hold should have worked. The guy doesn't cooperate you bring him to the ground or let him let you break his arm.

Also for the life of me (I was never a cop, but I have worked security at events in my 20's when I was active in martial arts daily...I was able to remove many guys larger than myself and only had to physically fight a handful. Those were quickly subdued when others on staff assisted) cannot understand how a lot of cops today don't know the basics for controlling a suspect.

The first error they make is usually coming up as confrontational rather than cautious and questioning. A lot of situations turn out a lot different once you get a few questions out of the way. All of the sudden the guy that was reported to be the antagonist is found out to be the guy that actually got jumped or the person with the purse in his hand is actually a third party that got it away from the actual criminal. They either go for the pepper spray, taser or another weapon. For one, once you have a weapon out the average Joe is having a practical breakdown figuring somehow they will be dead or in the hospital by the end of the night. Fight or flight kicks in. Most of the people in this situation are already a little off balance/stressed/intoxicated and not thinking clearly. A cop should be trying to calm rather than escalate and this is a difficult thing to do. Once the cop starts yelling and the other guy is now scared and trying to talk over the cop to explain it wasn't him utter pandemonium results. I have seen and been part of these incidents first hand. Meanwhile the real loser ends up getting away by just ducking out with all the commotion.

Read the report - he wasn't exactly Mr. Cooperative. Also, imagine the outcry if "the police broke his arm" - deploying the taser is safer for all involved.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Have you tried carrying someone while they're struggling and especially when the person you're carrying is as large as the student in the video?

Basic arm bar or come along hold should have worked. The guy doesn't cooperate you bring him to the ground or let him let you break his arm.

Also for the life of me (I was never a cop, but I have worked security at events in my 20's when I was active in martial arts daily...I was able to remove many guys larger than myself and only had to physically fight a handful. Those were quickly subdued when others on staff assisted) cannot understand how a lot of cops today don't know the basics for controlling a suspect.

The first error they make is usually coming up as confrontational rather than cautious and questioning. A lot of situations turn out a lot different once you get a few questions out of the way. All of the sudden the guy that was reported to be the antagonist is found out to be the guy that actually got jumped or the person with the purse in his hand is actually a third party that got it away from the actual criminal. They either go for the pepper spray, taser or another weapon. For one, once you have a weapon out the average Joe is having a practical breakdown figuring somehow they will be dead or in the hospital by the end of the night. Fight or flight kicks in. Most of the people in this situation are already a little off balance/stressed/intoxicated and not thinking clearly. A cop should be trying to calm rather than escalate and this is a difficult thing to do. Once the cop starts yelling and the other guy is now scared and trying to talk over the cop to explain it wasn't him utter pandemonium results. I have seen and been part of these incidents first hand. Meanwhile the real loser ends up getting away by just ducking out with all the commotion.

kind of hard to do a arm bar when the guy is fighting and grabbing furniture. of course they could have prayed his hands off or got out the billy club and broke his fingers.

but that has more likely hood of someone getting hurt.

it is harder then most think to control a person when they don't want to be controled. was this guy looking to harm anyone? no.

i do agree cops handle many situations wrong and shoul dhave more training in such stuff. hell many highschool wrestlers know more then i have seen cops do in the field (from watching cops).


but anyway i don't fel sorry for the kid. he was looking to get attention and got it.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: glutenberg


Have you tried carrying someone while they're struggling and especially when the person you're carrying is as large as the student in the video?

Watch the video, unless you call countinuing to rant a struggle.

TallBill considers flailing as an attack, he is a cop and a solder. I don't get it though. To me flailing is just flailing, even if I get hit the blow would be so ineffective. I guess it could make some cry though.

Someone flailing with their arms can still break a nose or poke someone in the eye.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: glutenberg


Have you tried carrying someone while they're struggling and especially when the person you're carrying is as large as the student in the video?

Watch the video, unless you call countinuing to rant a struggle.

TallBill considers flailing as an attack, he is a cop and a solder. I don't get it though. To me flailing is just flailing, even if I get hit the blow would be so ineffective. I guess it could make some cry though.

Someone flailing with their arms can still break a nose or poke someone in the eye.

Yeah so can a 2 year old, it's about being a man and handling the situation properly when someone is freaking in a panic not getting scared yourself and blasting them.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: waggy
kind of hard to do a arm bar when the guy is fighting and grabbing furniture. of course they could have prayed his hands off or got out the billy club and broke his fingers.

but that has more likely hood of someone getting hurt.

it is harder then most think to control a person when they don't want to be controled. was this guy looking to harm anyone? no.

i do agree cops handle many situations wrong and shoul dhave more training in such stuff. hell many highschool wrestlers know more then i have seen cops do in the field (from watching cops).


but anyway i don't fel sorry for the kid. he was looking to get attention and got it.

Most people don't really know what self defence training is about...once you learn it well it's really almost like magic. A simple move can incapacitate someone or send them flying through the air.

No one really wants to be controlled. There is a large difference in skills you learn with professional instruction and what someone off the street can do with office furniture.

The sad part is that cops really don't have more training than an average high school wrestler. They training I have seen is more watered down than what a wrestler gets as well. Not to mention you don't see to many wrestlers and martial artists pulling a beer/donut gut.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Read the report - he wasn't exactly Mr. Cooperative. Also, imagine the outcry if "the police broke his arm" - deploying the taser is safer for all involved.

I read the report and it's funny they say he was sensationalizing things. The report itself was pretty good reading. Mentioning he was trying to incite a riot was a blast.

You don't get your arm broke in what I explained above unless you want your arm broken. A taser can kill you. A broken arm possibly could (fracture cutting an artery, post surgery infection, etc), but the chance is slim to none.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: glutenberg


Have you tried carrying someone while they're struggling and especially when the person you're carrying is as large as the student in the video?

Watch the video, unless you call countinuing to rant a struggle.

TallBill considers flailing as an attack, he is a cop and a solder. I don't get it though. To me flailing is just flailing, even if I get hit the blow would be so ineffective. I guess it could make some cry though.

Someone flailing with their arms can still break a nose or poke someone in the eye.

Yeah so can a 2 year old, it's about being a man and handling the situation properly when someone is freaking in a panic not getting scared yourself and blasting them.

Your generalizations and perception of reality is really sad. Scary.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Read the report - he wasn't exactly Mr. Cooperative. Also, imagine the outcry if "the police broke his arm" - deploying the taser is safer for all involved.

I read the report and it's funny they say he was sensationalizing things. The report itself was pretty good reading. Mentioning he was trying to incite a riot was a blast.

You don't get your arm broke in what I explained above unless you want your arm broken. A taser can kill you. A broken arm possibly could (fracture cutting an artery, post surgery infection, etc), but the chance is slim to none.

Compliant people don't get tased either...it's a moot point.

Show me one incident in which a Taser was the sole cause and factor of death, and I'll be impressed. It didn't kill me.

Edit: If I'm reading this properly...you'd prefer an officer break a subject's arm before deploying a Taser? Uh...okay.

 

[JackBurton]

I think they should have tased him as soon as he got to the mic. He just had that "I'm a fvcktard" look about him. And that is enough to warrant tasing in my book.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

TallBill considers flailing as an attack, he is a cop and a solder. I don't get it though. To me flailing is just flailing, even if I get hit the blow would be so ineffective. I guess it could make some cry though.

Christ, just watch the fucking video. There are several points where he cross the line of officer safety. Knocking someone down and cuffing them is not "blasting" them.

Anyways, you are still a moron. Happy trolling.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Read the report - he wasn't exactly Mr. Cooperative. Also, imagine the outcry if "the police broke his arm" - deploying the taser is safer for all involved.

I read the report and it's funny they say he was sensationalizing things. The report itself was pretty good reading. Mentioning he was trying to incite a riot was a blast.

You don't get your arm broke in what I explained above unless you want your arm broken. A taser can kill you. A broken arm possibly could (fracture cutting an artery, post surgery infection, etc), but the chance is slim to none.

Holy shit quit twisting the taser issue. The taser has only been linked to death in subjects that have underlying medical problems.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: waggy
kind of hard to do a arm bar when the guy is fighting and grabbing furniture. of course they could have prayed his hands off or got out the billy club and broke his fingers.

but that has more likely hood of someone getting hurt.

it is harder then most think to control a person when they don't want to be controled. was this guy looking to harm anyone? no.

i do agree cops handle many situations wrong and shoul dhave more training in such stuff. hell many highschool wrestlers know more then i have seen cops do in the field (from watching cops).


but anyway i don't fel sorry for the kid. he was looking to get attention and got it.

Most people don't really know what self defence training is about...once you learn it well it's really almost like magic. A simple move can incapacitate someone or send them flying through the air.

No one really wants to be controlled. There is a large difference in skills you learn with professional instruction and what someone off the street can do with office furniture.

The sad part is that cops really don't have more training than an average high school wrestler. They training I have seen is more watered down than what a wrestler gets as well. Not to mention you don't see to many wrestlers and martial artists pulling a beer/donut gut.

i spent a few years in hapkido wich is pretty rough. BUT i also started wrestling at 5 until i was in my 20's. so yeah i know a little about trying to control someone.

IT is NOT as easy as you are trying to make it out.

Yes there are moves that will take someone down and keep them down. BUT there are ways around that. And if someoone has a hold of a chair and fighting it makes it very hard to do without hurting them or maybe yourself.

but yeah its fucking sad how out of shape a lot of cops are. its also rather scary. i know a few cops. they are in awesome shape (heh knew one from wrestling camps). they are county sheriff and not city cops. so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[QED]

The drama queen kid had it coming.

I think I finally found someone who deserved to get tasered more than this lady.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: waggy
i spent a few years in hapkido wich is pretty rough. BUT i also started wrestling at 5 until i was in my 20's. so yeah i know a little about trying to control someone.

IT is NOT as easy as you are trying to make it out.

Yes there are moves that will take someone down and keep them down. BUT there are ways around that. And if someoone has a hold of a chair and fighting it makes it very hard to do without hurting them or maybe yourself.

but yeah its fucking sad how out of shape a lot of cops are. its also rather scary. i know a few cops. they are in awesome shape (heh knew one from wrestling camps). they are county sheriff and not city cops. so maybe that has something to do with it.

Like this cop? For some reason, not too many people resist with him.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: QED
The drama queen kid had it coming.

I think I finally found someone who deserved to get tasered more than this lady.

What was he arresting her for?

Edit: NVM, suspended license

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: waggy
i spent a few years in hapkido wich is pretty rough. BUT i also started wrestling at 5 until i was in my 20's. so yeah i know a little about trying to control someone.

IT is NOT as easy as you are trying to make it out.

Yes there are moves that will take someone down and keep them down. BUT there are ways around that. And if someoone has a hold of a chair and fighting it makes it very hard to do without hurting them or maybe yourself.

but yeah its fucking sad how out of shape a lot of cops are. its also rather scary. i know a few cops. they are in awesome shape (heh knew one from wrestling camps). they are county sheriff and not city cops. so maybe that has something to do with it.

Like this cop? For some reason, not too many people resist with him.

holly shit.

err heh i woiuldnt mess with him.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: waggy
i spent a few years in hapkido wich is pretty rough. BUT i also started wrestling at 5 until i was in my 20's. so yeah i know a little about trying to control someone.

IT is NOT as easy as you are trying to make it out.

Yes there are moves that will take someone down and keep them down. BUT there are ways around that. And if someoone has a hold of a chair and fighting it makes it very hard to do without hurting them or maybe yourself.

but yeah its fucking sad how out of shape a lot of cops are. its also rather scary. i know a few cops. they are in awesome shape (heh knew one from wrestling camps). they are county sheriff and not city cops. so maybe that has something to do with it.

Like this cop? For some reason, not too many people resist with him.

holly shit.

err heh i woiuldnt mess with him.

I think he choke slams people with one hand when they resist.

He's Arlington, TX PD, well ex-PD. I think he left the force a few years ago. My brother got a chance to meet him at a local Chilli's here (we live very close to Arlington). My brother had been working out for a quite a few years, and he said, he felt like he looked like he never worked out in his life standing next to him. The guy is a monster!

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: alkemyst

TallBill considers flailing as an attack, he is a cop and a solder. I don't get it though. To me flailing is just flailing, even if I get hit the blow would be so ineffective. I guess it could make some cry though.

Christ, just watch the fucking video. There are several points where he cross the line of officer safety. Knocking someone down and cuffing them is not "blasting" them.

Anyways, you are still a moron. Happy trolling.

I was referring to what you'd say you'd do.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Read the report - he wasn't exactly Mr. Cooperative. Also, imagine the outcry if "the police broke his arm" - deploying the taser is safer for all involved.

I read the report and it's funny they say he was sensationalizing things. The report itself was pretty good reading. Mentioning he was trying to incite a riot was a blast.

You don't get your arm broke in what I explained above unless you want your arm broken. A taser can kill you. A broken arm possibly could (fracture cutting an artery, post surgery infection, etc), but the chance is slim to none.

Holy shit quit twisting the taser issue. The taser has only been linked to death in subjects that have underlying medical problems.

as a cop you cannot determine if those conditions are present.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: waggy
i spent a few years in hapkido wich is pretty rough. BUT i also started wrestling at 5 until i was in my 20's. so yeah i know a little about trying to control someone.

IT is NOT as easy as you are trying to make it out.

Yes there are moves that will take someone down and keep them down. BUT there are ways around that. And if someoone has a hold of a chair and fighting it makes it very hard to do without hurting them or maybe yourself.

but yeah its fucking sad how out of shape a lot of cops are. its also rather scary. i know a few cops. they are in awesome shape (heh knew one from wrestling camps). they are county sheriff and not city cops. so maybe that has something to do with it.

Like this cop? For some reason, not too many people resist with him.

holly shit.

err heh i woiuldnt mess with him.

I think he choke slams people with one hand when they resist.

He's Arlington, TX PD, well ex-PD. I think he left the force a few years ago. My brother got a chance to meet him at a local Chilli's here (we live very close to Arlington). My brother had been working out for a quite a few years, and he said, he felt like he looked like he never worked out in his life standing next to him. The guy is a monster!

Ronnie Coleman was an ex-pro bodybuilder. #1. He is a bit extreme, but if more cops were fit first they'd be more effective and not have to worry about someone's flailing hurting their girlish complexion. Losing eyes and getting your nose broken no less.

 

[Dessert Tears]

From the police report:
One contact tase to the man's left shoulder was deployed for the duration of its cycle.

"Contact tase" is the same as "Drive Stun", where the front of the Taser is pressed directly against the subject. The projectiles are not fired. I don't know the exact specs on the X-26, but the typical duration for Tasers in "Drive Stun" is 5s. This is the same mode that was used during the UCLA Taser incident.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I read the report and it's funny they say he was sensationalizing things. The report itself was pretty good reading. Mentioning he was trying to incite a riot was a blast.

You don't get your arm broke in what I explained above unless you want your arm broken. A taser can kill you. A broken arm possibly could (fracture cutting an artery, post surgery infection, etc), but the chance is slim to none.

Can you provide any cases where a Taser in "Drive Stun" or a conventional stun gun has been linked to a death?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Flatscan
Can you provide any cases where a Taser in "Drive Stun" or a conventional stun gun has been linked to a death?

For what purpose? My points are the cops did not need any taser in this situation.

Feel free to look up that all the deaths did not use "Drive Stun" and get back to us.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Read the report - he wasn't exactly Mr. Cooperative. Also, imagine the outcry if "the police broke his arm" - deploying the taser is safer for all involved.

I read the report and it's funny they say he was sensationalizing things. The report itself was pretty good reading. Mentioning he was trying to incite a riot was a blast.

You don't get your arm broke in what I explained above unless you want your arm broken. A taser can kill you. A broken arm possibly could (fracture cutting an artery, post surgery infection, etc), but the chance is slim to none.

Holy shit quit twisting the taser issue. The taser has only been linked to death in subjects that have underlying medical problems.

as a cop you cannot determine if those conditions are present.

That's silly. That's like saying you should never use force on someone because you don't know if he's a hemophiliac and any injury could be life threatening.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Read the report - he wasn't exactly Mr. Cooperative. Also, imagine the outcry if "the police broke his arm" - deploying the taser is safer for all involved.

I read the report and it's funny they say he was sensationalizing things. The report itself was pretty good reading. Mentioning he was trying to incite a riot was a blast.

You don't get your arm broke in what I explained above unless you want your arm broken. A taser can kill you. A broken arm possibly could (fracture cutting an artery, post surgery infection, etc), but the chance is slim to none.

Holy shit quit twisting the taser issue. The taser has only been linked to death in subjects that have underlying medical problems.

as a cop you cannot determine if those conditions are present.

thats just idiotic.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: waggy
i spent a few years in hapkido wich is pretty rough. BUT i also started wrestling at 5 until i was in my 20's. so yeah i know a little about trying to control someone.

IT is NOT as easy as you are trying to make it out.

Yes there are moves that will take someone down and keep them down. BUT there are ways around that. And if someoone has a hold of a chair and fighting it makes it very hard to do without hurting them or maybe yourself.

but yeah its fucking sad how out of shape a lot of cops are. its also rather scary. i know a few cops. they are in awesome shape (heh knew one from wrestling camps). they are county sheriff and not city cops. so maybe that has something to do with it.

Like this cop? For some reason, not too many people resist with him.

holly shit.

err heh i woiuldnt mess with him.

I think he choke slams people with one hand when they resist.

He's Arlington, TX PD, well ex-PD. I think he left the force a few years ago. My brother got a chance to meet him at a local Chilli's here (we live very close to Arlington). My brother had been working out for a quite a few years, and he said, he felt like he looked like he never worked out in his life standing next to him. The guy is a monster!

Ronnie Coleman was an ex-pro bodybuilder. #1. He is a bit extreme, but if more cops were fit first they'd be more effective and not have to worry about someone's flailing hurting their girlish complexion. Losing eyes and getting your nose broken no less.

Not only #1, #1 8 years straight (Mr. Olympia).