Two year old killed by a pack of pit bulls

[JEDIYoda]

Do you have better knowledge of pit bulls? Share.

- wolf

I am sure that you are not a complete isot...

The sheer percentages of those who attack and bite verses the number of those who are in good homes and are a part of the family are very miniscue....
The truth is a dog is only as good as its training...

 

[William Gaatjes]

The really aggressive big dog breeds aren't Pitts and Rotts though. Chow Chows are more aggressive as are Dalmatians, Pinchers, Huskies, etc. Like I said the reason these two breeds have high serious/fatal injuries upon attack is because the breed was meant to take down bigger things than itself. Most of what you think might be bad dogs aren't, they just have bad owners.

What is really sad is that people choose to treat dogs poorly. The phrase "mans best friend" just barely does justice to the relationship man and dog have developed over millenia.

I despise chow cows and Chihuahua. I never have the desire to hurt animals (well if i had to take care of my own food, i might turn into a stone cold killer and probably enjoy it at the moment too)

But with these dogs i have the natural desire to stomp at them.
I don't like growling dogs.

And people who own pit bulls, bull terriers or any similar breeds should never allow their dogs close to toddlers. I mean it is not strange that most of the time the kids of the owner are mauled. And other wise the neighbour toddlers coming in the backyard where the dogs are roaming free. Another case is where the owner allows the dog to come to close to toddlers in public. That should be a criminal act. From what i have read above 3 examples are the most common reasons why biting incidents occur. The question is what kind of coarse to take. Knowing that people do not like rules, it is bound to go wrong somewhere.

 

[bfdd]

well... if the sign of success of a animal is how many there are and level of comfort I would say all dog breeds and the housecat are the most successful animals that there are. Sure some live bad lives but looking at my cat - the thing sleeps 20 hours a day and is never hungry, cold or wet. I would say that is a massive Darwin success story right there.

Of course dogs are a successful species. There is a very tight bond between Humans and K9s that extends back over 10,000 years. I just think it's sad that we would point the finger at them instead of ourselves for the problems. We domesticated them, we made them ours and that makes them our responsibility.

 

[shira]

You would actually be surprised to learn that Pit Bulls do not have the hardest bite of all the dog species. German Shepards have a bite just as strong or stronger and both are blown away by the amount of force a Rott bite can have.

Rotties and Pit Bulls are great family dogs, they just have to be raised and treated properly. I would not trade a loyal well trained Rott or Pit for anything. BTW fuck PETA and their want of extinction to these large work breeds.

The only problem is that - either by design or out of ignorance - it's easy to NOT "raise and treat properly" a pit bull, and the result is an accident waiting to happen. That's totally fine when the dog rips the flesh off of the owner's face, but why should the general public be put at risk because of the stupidity of the owner?

 

[JSt0rm]

Of course dogs are a successful species. There is a very tight bond between Humans and K9s that extends back over 10,000 years. I just think it's sad that we would point the finger at them instead of ourselves for the problems. We domesticated them, we made them ours and that makes them our responsibility.

totally but if a dog kills a human then it dies. It's sad yes but animals are destroyed every day for more mundane reasons.

 

[JSt0rm]

The only problem is that - either by design or out of ignorance - it's easy to NOT "raise and treat properly" a pit bull, and the result is an accident waiting to happen. That's totally fine when the dog rips the flesh off of the owner's face, but why should the general public be put at risk because of the stupidity of the owner?

Well if this 2 year old had a conceal and carry permit it could of defended itself :awe:

 

[shira]

Of course dogs are a successful species. There is a very tight bond between Humans and K9s that extends back over 10,000 years. I just think it's sad that we would point the finger at them instead of ourselves for the problems. We domesticated them, we made them ours and that makes them our responsibility.

I don't "point the finger" at the breed. I point the finger at stupid a-holes who put the general public at risk because - of course - nothing bad is going to happen with MY dog.

 

[Zebo]

Everyone of those dogs who show aggression need to be shot in the head. They are gamebred killers for generations hard to breed it out. I'd prefer some professional temperament testing after about a year to determine dogs fate and even so you should have to get an exotic pet license to own one.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Everyone of those dogs who show aggression need to be shot in the head. They are gamebred killers for generations hard to breed it out. I'd prefer some professional temperament testing after about a year to determine dogs fate and even so you should have to get an exotic pet license to own one.

That would be that the world end up with the dumber left overs of the breeds.
It seems intelligence and empathy go hand in hand with aggression.

But i agree that the most dangerous individual examples should be put to sleep.

 

[JSt0rm]

Everyone of those dogs who show aggression need to be shot in the head. They are gamebred killers for generations hard to breed it out. I'd prefer some professional temperament testing after about a year to determine dogs fate and even so you should have to get an exotic pet license to own one.

from wiki.


The American Temperament Testing Society shows a pass percentage of 86% for American Pit Bull Terriers.[8] Still, a firm, even hand and early obedience training are best. They generally have a lot of energy and high prey drive; they need exercise and stimulation in order to channel their energy properly and not become frustrated, bored, and destructive.[9]
[edit]

 

[Zebo]

No not really, German Shepards were bred specifically for this and they will almost always have a harder bite than a pit. The pit gets its advantage from his muscular neck and body along with a low center of gravity combined with a strong bite.

The pitbull get his advantage from speed and no quit no pain. Zebo has seen plenty of dog fights, 30 minute dog fights, 1 hour dog fights. No cur ass Shepard will fight that long which is why a 30lb game bred pit will end a 120 lb shepard. And a Child and an old person. No quit.

 

[woolfe9999]

That would be that the world end up with the dumber left overs of the breeds.
It seems intelligence and empathy go hand in hand with aggression.

But i agree that the most dangerous individual examples should be put to sleep.

There doesn't seem to be much correlation between intelligence and aggression, at least not according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intelligence_of_Dogs

The highest intelligence group includes border collies and retrievers (low aggression); doberman pinschers and rottweilers (higher aggression).

- wolf

 

[Zebo]

from wiki.


The American Temperament Testing Society shows a pass percentage of 86% for American Pit Bull Terriers.[8] Still, a firm, even hand and early obedience training are best. They generally have a lot of energy and high prey drive; they need exercise and stimulation in order to channel their energy properly and not become frustrated, bored, and destructive.[9]
[edit]

LOL yeah right.

 

[Theb]

Over the last 20 years or so my family has owned 2 pitbulls, 1 pitbull/German Shepherd Mix, 1 pitbull/Lab mix and 2 English Bulldogs. None of the dogs ever bit a human.
I have to go now. The media is beating a path to my door to report on this shocking anomaly.

If you're a competent dog owner the only downside to owning a pitbull is the 2 groups of idiots you encounter:

+ That's a beautiful dog, what kind is it?
= A Pitbull
+ Oh no! Everyone run! We're all going to die!

Whoa nice pitbull. Do you want to breed/fight with my cousin's dog?

This is the first pitbull we adopted.

 

[Zebo]

nm

 

[woolfe9999]

The pitbull get his advantage from speed and no quit no pain. Zebo has seen plenty of dog fights, 30 minute dog fights, 1 hour dog fights. No cur ass Shepard will fight that long which is why a 30lb game bred pit will end a 120 lb shepard. And a Child and an old person. No quit.

What is the attraction to dog fighting? Is it a gambling thing, or you just enjoy watching dogs tear each other apart?

- wolf

 

[William Gaatjes]

There doesn't seem to be much correlation between intelligence and aggression, at least not according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intelligence_of_Dogs

The highest intelligence group includes border collies and retrievers (low aggression); doberman pinschers and rottweilers (higher aggression).

- wolf

I agree it is a matter of opinion and based on the situation. The site also warns about not being able to verify and that the data is based on a book from Stanley Coren.

But to explain what i know :
The bull terrier is a mix of breeding. The collie is part of the family history as well. Perhaps there the correlation can be found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Terrier#History

Early in the mid-1800s the "Bull and Terrier" breeds were developed to satisfy the needs for vermin control and animal-based blood sports. The "Bull and Terriers" were based on the Old English Bulldog (now extinct) and one or more of Old English Terrier and "Black and tan terrier", now known as Manchester Terrier. This new breed combined the speed and dexterity of lightly built terriers with the dour tenacity of the Bulldog, which was a poor performer in most combat situations, having been bred almost exclusively for killing bulls and bears tied to a post. Due to the lack of breed standards—breeding was for performance, not appearance—the "Bull and Terrier" eventually divided into the ancestors of "Bull Terriers" and "Staffordshire Bull Terriers", both smaller and easier to handle than the progenitor.[5][6][7][8]

About 1850, James Hinks started breeding "Bull and Terriers" with "English White Terriers" (now extinct), looking for a cleaner appearance with better legs and nicer head. In 1862, Hinks entered a bitch called "Puss" sired by his white Bulldog called "Madman" into the Bull Terrier Class at the dog show held at the Cremorne Gardens in Chelsea. Originally known as the "Hinks Breed" and "The White Cavalier", these dogs did not yet have the now-familiar "egg face", but kept the stop in the skull profile.[9][10][11]

The difference between "Bullies" and "Staffies"

The dog was immediately popular and breeding continued, using Dalmatian, Greyhound, Spanish Pointer, Foxhound and Whippet to increase elegance and agility; and Borzoi and Collie to reduce the stop. Hinks wanted his dogs white, and bred specifically for this. Generally, however, breeding was aimed at increasing sturdiness: three "subtypes" were recognised by judges, Bulldog, Terrier and Dalmatian, each with its specific conformation, and a balance is now sought between the three. The first modern Bull Terrier is now recognised as "Lord Gladiator", from 1917, being the first dog with no stop at all.[9][10][5][12][13]

Due to medical problems associated with all-white breeding, Ted Lyon among others began introducing colour, using Staffordshire Bull Terriers in the early 20th century. Coloured Bull Terriers were recognised as a separate variety (at least by the AKC) in 1936. Brindle is the preferred colour, but other colours are welcome.[11]

Along with conformation, specific behaviour traits were sought. The epithet "White Cavalier", harking back to an age of chivalry, was bestowed on a breed which while never seeking to start a fight was well able to finish one, while socialising well with its "pack", including children and pups. Hinks himself had always aimed at a "gentleman's companion" dog rather than a pit-fighter—though Bullies were often entered in the pits, with some success. Today the Bullie is valued as a comical, mischievous, imaginative and intelligent (problem-solving) but stubborn house pet suitable for experienced owners.[5][14]

pre 1915 bull terrier before the breeding with collies

EDIT:
Did some reading and found out that collies need regular exercise and mental stimulation. This i find interesting, because what happens when this is not done ?

Dobermans seems to exhibit aggression only to strangers and are in general not aggressive.
And rottweilers have i think the same problem as collies. No happy time makes a mean dog.
I mean these dogs are big and pretty powerful in strength. And they have guard nature similar as the doberman.

I do not know if this site is credible, but also mentions the relationship between aggression and intelligence and the collie.
http://www.pet-training.info/Dogs/Breeds/Collie/Collie_Aggression.php

 

[Zebo]

What is the attraction to dog fighting? Is it a gambling thing, or you just enjoy watching dogs tear each other apart?

- wolf

Hell no I don't enjoy it I used to volunteer at a pitbull rescue part of it involved seeing film(s) of how horrible dogs had it.

 

[Zebo]

That would be that the world end up with the dumber left overs of the breeds.
It seems intelligence and empathy go hand in hand with aggression.

But i agree that the most dangerous individual examples should be put to sleep.

You know the deal. People think pits are dumb lol.

They know physics like no other dog watch them fight. The tearing they put whole body into.

 

[NeoV]

agree that with proper upbringing, nearly any dog can be a good dog...
but...

pitbulls were bred with one thing in mind - to be powerful, aggressive, fearless dogs - and it worked

properly bred pit bulls shouldn't be any more dangerous than other large/strong breeds, but there is so much inbreeding among them, there are far too many genetically unstable pitbulls around - they can snap with no provocation, no warning.

If you can get a purebred dog from a real breeder, and you know how to train a dog, you should be ok - if you get a stray, or one from some trashcan breeder - you are literally putting the life and health of everyone around you in danger - no matter how smart and capable with dogs you think you are.

Zebo - are we supposed to be impressed that you've seen 'lots' of dog fights?

In my book that makes you one thing, and one thing only - an idiot.

 

[Zebo]

agree that with proper upbringing, nearly any dog can be a good dog...
but...

pitbulls were bred with one thing in mind - to be powerful, aggressive, fearless dogs - and it worked

properly bred pit bulls shouldn't be any more dangerous than other large/strong breeds, but there is so much inbreeding among them, there are far too many genetically unstable pitbulls around - they can snap with no provocation, no warning.

If you can get a purebred dog from a real breeder, and you know how to train a dog, you should be ok - if you get a stray, or one from some trashcan breeder - you are literally putting the life and health of everyone around you in danger - no matter how smart and capable with dogs you think you are.

Zebo - are we supposed to be impressed that you've seen 'lots' of dog fights?

In my book that makes you one thing, and one thing only - an idiot.

That's the last thing you want is a 'pure breed' the breed was built for destroying other dogs for 100 generations. So effectively what they did was take a female champion, lock her up hips high so she could mate without killing other dog, then breed her with a male multiple champion. This happen to this day. That's pure breed.

The whole APBT registry is fighting dogs in it's origination go look you'll see 3x champ so and so breed with 5x champ so and so.

 

[Kappo]

Everyone of those dogs who show aggression need to be shot in the head. They are gamebred killers for generations hard to breed it out. I'd prefer some professional temperament testing after about a year to determine dogs fate and even so you should have to get an exotic pet license to own one.

The "dumbing down" of dog ownership really isn't the way to go. My dog is a GSD and when I rescued her, she was quite aggressive. After a bit of correction (I've had 2+ dogs all my life and work at a rescue on the weekends off and on for about 15 years now), I see kids picking her nose and pulling her ears (the horrified look on that snowflake's mom is priceless, btw) and she just kinda looks at them.

Do inexperienced owners need to pick up a pit bull, GSD, Doberman, or Rot? No. Aside from the sensationalized headline every so often or occasional non-fatal bite, it really isn't a problem.

I WOULD say that if your dog does attack someone, the person is liable. Intended, unintended doesn't matter. Most of the dog parks I goto state this explicitly on the rules that you agree to before entering.

TBH, this question doesn't even come up to people who have a clue. The people who spend the time to train their dog would usually accept responsibility, and the people that scream that it's not their fault usually won't train their dog.

 

[Capt Caveman]

If pitbulls were banned, these dumbasses would just find another breed to use as a status symbol.

 

[Brigandier]

The "dumbing down" of dog ownership really isn't the way to go. My dog is a GSD and when I rescued her, she was quite aggressive. After a bit of correction (I've had 2+ dogs all my life and work at a rescue on the weekends off and on for about 15 years now), I see kids picking her nose and pulling her ears (the horrified look on that snowflake's mom is priceless, btw) and she just kinda looks at them.

Do inexperienced owners need to pick up a pit bull, GSD, Doberman, or Rot? No. Aside from the sensationalized headline every so often or occasional non-fatal bite, it really isn't a problem.

I WOULD say that if your dog does attack someone, the person is liable. Intended, unintended doesn't matter. Most of the dog parks I goto state this explicitly on the rules that you agree to before entering.

TBH, this question doesn't even come up to people who have a clue. The people who spend the time to train their dog would usually accept responsibility, and the people that scream that it's not their fault usually won't train their dog.

This. How can you blame a dumb animal for its actions? Blame the owner for not being responsible enough. I've seen owners try to rationalize with their dog when it misbehaves, why would it be the dog's fault if it bit some one?

 

[Theb]

Should pit bulls be banned as pets?

Should their owners be criminally prosecuted when their dogs kill?

I don't have much of an opinion about this yet, but this morning on the local radio lots of people were calling for the banning of pit bulls, so I thought I'd throw this one out for the peanut gallery.

- wolf

Instead of banning more things I think the government should just release a list of things we're allowed to have.

1.) About 40 people (children) per year die by drowning in 5-gallon water pails. A person, during their lifetime, is 16 times more likely to drown in a 5-gallon water pail than to be killed by a Pit Bull.

2.) Approximately 50 children in the US are killed every year by their cribs - 25 times the number of children and adults killed by Pit Bulls.

3.) Approximately 150 people are killed every year by falling coconuts. Therefore, you are more than 60 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be killed by a PALM TREE than a Pit Bull.

4.) Each year, 350 people drown in their bathtubs. You are 151 times more likely to be killed by your bathtub than you are by a Pit Bull.

5) Every year, more than 2,000 children in the U.S. are killed by their parents or guardians either through abuse or neglect. A child is more than 800 times more likely to be killed by their caretaker than by a Pit Bull.

6) It can be estimated that for every Pit Bull who kills, there are 10.5 MILLION that DON'T!

(Admittedly biased) Link