tweaktown review GTX660Ti

[SolMiester]

You seriously can't notice bent/staircase lines in games without AA?

Anti-Aliasing Part 1
Anti-Aliasing Part 2

Without anti-aliasing sometimes it's a shimmering mess (Crysis 1 vegetation). In darker games such as Metro 2033, Doom 3, it's not as big of a deal but in wide open bright games, a game looks really bad without AA unless you sit pretty far from the monitor. With consoles, this isn't that bad since many play 7-10 feet away but on the PC where we are so close to the monitor and our pixel pitch is much higher, anti-aliasing is especially noticeable.

Might be me age, but Im too busy concentrating on the game and effects, not the details..<shrugs>, some games are worse than others. I came from 12x10 to 16x10 and the bigger resolution really took care of most of it....though TBF, I havent played many games in the last 2 years.

 

[blackened23]

Might be me age, but Im too busy concentrating on the game and effects, not the details..<shrugs>, some games are worse than others. I came from 12x10 to 16x10 and the bigger resolution really took care of most of it....though TBF, I havent played many games in the last 2 years.

Just to throw my opinion out there, i've considered anti aliasing mandatory for at least 7 years. AA has been around since the late 90s, the quality difference is immense. I really can't see how anyone can say they don't notice a difference unless they're using a really bad screen...

 

[SirPauly]

I know the NV team will say anything to have their equipment in the best light, but exactly where does



mention outdated equipment? He mentioned a 660 and a 7950. I put them in bold font for you, in case you missed them.

Some day the HD 7950 and GTX 660 will be dated.

 

[Arkaign]

Nvidia has a weird quandary here.

They could price 660ti at like $239 and instantly have a massive hit (and due to the small die and simple PCB, likely still very very profitable SKU!)

But that would really endanger the ability of the 670 to sell unless they plan big price drops for the 670 and 680.

I do think some kind of price drop is coming though, I love the crap out of my 670 FTW edition, but I think it makes not a lot of sense right now at $400ish.

New prices :

660ti $239
670GTX $299
680GTX $379

That would be an absolutely hugely successful plan imho.

 

[Grooveriding]

Nvidia has a weird quandary here.

They could price 660ti at like $239 and instantly have a massive hit (and due to the small die and simple PCB, likely still very very profitable SKU!)

But that would really endanger the ability of the 670 to sell unless they plan big price drops for the 670 and 680.

I do think some kind of price drop is coming though, I love the crap out of my 670 FTW edition, but I think it makes not a lot of sense right now at $400ish.

New prices :

660ti $239
670GTX $299
680GTX $379

That would be an absolutely hugely successful plan imho.

Haha, would be absolutely successful for us, but those sort of price schemes for nvidia are completely alien. 680 will never drop below $499 until there is a 780 on the shelves.

The rest of the lineup will also have to remain appropriately priced to not obsolete its upper brother.

 

[Shmee]

Interesting, I would still wait for OC/OV reviews before considering though, and it would need to have good performance at 1600p, as well as better AA/AF performance. It is a pitty that the 7950 prices have risen again, seems the sub $330 twin frozr was a short time deal.

 

[Homeles]

Haha, would be absolutely successful for us, but those sort of price schemes for nvidia are completely alien. 680 will never drop below $499 until there is a 780 on the shelves.

The rest of the lineup will also have to remain appropriately priced to not obsolete its upper brother.

Yeah, I don't see Nvidia being able to keep up with the increased volume of sales that would be the result of such a steep price drop.

 

[AtenRa]

Well, with 192bit memory controllers the GTX660Ti can only compete against the HD7870.

HD7870 prices have drop to bellow $300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&amp;PageSize=20

It seams that performance and price wise the GTX660Ti will be between the HD7870 and HD7950.
The only good out of it is that HD7870 prices have fallen and you can get the MSI Twin Frozr at 259,99 AMR.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127662

The next 28nm NV card(GTS660 ??) could make the HD7850 to drop to the $199 price point where it really belongs.

 

[Raghu]

They could price 660ti at like $239 and instantly have a massive hit (and due to the small die and simple PCB, likely still very very profitable SKU!)

It is the GK104, right? Its not a very small die then. The 7870 is smaller at 212mm^2.

 

[3DVagabond]

Well, with 192bit memory controllers the GTX660Ti can only compete against the HD7870.

HD7870 prices have drop to bellow $300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&amp;PageSize=20

It seams that performance and price wise the GTX660Ti will be between the HD7870 and HD7950.
The only good out of it is that HD7870 prices have fallen and you can get the MSI Twin Frozr at 259,99 AMR.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127662

The next 28nm NV card(GTS660 ??) could make the HD7850 to drop to the $199 price point where it really belongs.

If the ~20% slower than the 670 @ 1920*1200 w/AA holds true (Which is what this review shows) then it will put it squarely on par with the 7870. Unless it's overall faster than what this game set in this test shows, it's not going to threaten the 7950.

With that said, if nVidia can continue to sell 680's for $500+, they will likely be able to sell everyone they make @ $300. :\

 

[RussianSensation]

Some day the HD 7950 and GTX 660 will be dated.

Yes, and HD7950 will have 30-40% overclocking headroom + 3GB of VRAM and 384-bit memory bus. If there is one card that stands to fall off a cliff in 3-4 years, it's the GTX660Ti based on the "future-proofing" argument. I don't believe in future proofing but if we go there, the 660Ti has no chance in that instance. It loses in every key technical aspect imaginable. Sorry, but NV drivers won't save it. If you look at HD4890 vs. GTX280, NV isn't doing any better.

Also, I don't even know where this point came from. Gaming enthusiasts don't use the same GPU for 4-5 years. This actually won't even be possible since we are on the cusp of next generation consoles which means an exponential growth in graphics/GPU demands soon to follow in 2014-2015. These modern cards have no hope to play those next generation titles. But again, since all 3 console generations will run on AMD cards, if anything, that again may be better for console ports on the 7950 2-3 years from now.

Interesting, I would still wait for OC/OV reviews before considering though, and it would need to have good performance at 1600p, as well as better AA/AF performance. It is a pitty that the 7950 prices have risen again, seems the sub $330 twin frozr was a short time deal.

HD7950 @ 1.1ghz should easily go against an overclocked GTX670/stock GTX680 at 1600P with AA/AF. There is just no way a GTX660Ti can compete at high resolution since that's where HD7900 shines the most. HD7950 @ 860mhz is just 6% slower than the GTX670 at 1600P. 1100mhz HD7950 would leave GTX660Ti for dead at 1600P.

Like I said before, not looking at how well HD7950 starts to perform once overclocked is missing the entire potential of this card. It's essentially a repeat of HD5850 vs. 5870 but AMD really neutered the 7950's GPU clocks. Nothing that can't be fixed in MSI afterburner. Because the card has 32 ROPs and 384-bit bus of the 7970, the performance takes off like a rocket against an 800mhz 7950:

Newegg and Amazon have HD7950 TF3 for $310-315 or so. Just make sure the rebate date is still valid at purchase date.

Even Superbiiz.com has it for $316 after BIGBEN coupon code:
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MSI-7950TF

Pretty easy now to get a solid HD7950 for $310-315ish.

New prices :

660ti $239
670GTX $299
680GTX $379

That would be an absolutely hugely successful plan imho.

NV isn't going to do that any time soon. GTX670 for $299? People are already buying GTX670 over 1000-1100mhz HD7970s and GTX680 over $460 HD7970 GE. NV also charges $560+ for GTX680 4GB versions. I agree with Grooveriding. NV has little reason to lower the prices on the 670/680 cards as long as they keep selling.

 

[Silverforce11]

Some day the HD 7950 and GTX 660 will be dated.

Yeah, 3 generations in the future when we'll be on what, 12nm? It's like somedays windows XP will be outdated.. doesn't mean its not functional (games still run fine on 48xx and prolly just as fast as gt2xx). But u can put as much lipstick on it as you like, at some point its well you know..

As to future proofing, you can't even compare. A card that already struggles now with heavy demands vs one with a >40% OC headroom and extra vram. duh.

 

[hyrule4927]

Nvidia has a weird quandary here.

They could price 660ti at like $239 and instantly have a massive hit (and due to the small die and simple PCB, likely still very very profitable SKU!)

[snip]

New prices :

660ti $239
670GTX $299
680GTX $379

That would be an absolutely hugely successful plan imho.

As I mentioned in the other 660ti thread, pricing like that would require price cuts of $100+ on all 500 series cards as well. I can't see that being profitable for Nvidia, and definitely not for any vendor selling these cards.

 

[Silverforce11]

As I mentioned in the other 660ti thread, pricing like that would require price cuts of $100+ on all 500 series cards as well. I can't see that being profitable for Nvidia, and definitely not for any vendor selling these cards.

It's been what, half a year since next gen is out, I don't think NV really gives a damn about their partner's old stock.

We are finally getting good prices on the AMD side, with their top tier cards falling towards $300, and mid-range falling to $200. NV needs to slot in somewhere between there. Looking forward to see more reviews, but if its ~7850 performance with AA on holds in a vast category of games.. consider me very unimpressed. Picture this, if thats true, which card is likely to OC by >45%, then the power use scenario comes in, and the gtx660ti is going to lose to pitcairn.

I nearly got the gtx670, was about to click buy but found a cheap 7950. All about the perf/$.

~$250 gtx660ti and they have a good product.
~$200 for the regular 660 should be very nice for the average gamer.

 

[RussianSensation]

~$250 gtx660ti and they have a good product.
~$200 for the regular 660 should be very nice for the average gamer.

I think it'll be $250 for the 660 and $300 for the 660Ti. NV prob. won't want to have a $150 price gap between the 660Ti and the 670. Really, this generation shows that AMD should have been more aggressive with clocks peeds. While HD7850/7950/7970 can be manually overclocked, it's very hard to market this as a "feature." If the entire line-up was released at 1-1.1Ghz+ clock speeds, then it would have made every single Kepler card irrelevant. Too bad AMD couldn't execute this and now they are paying the price. At stock speeds the 660Ti will look good against an 800mhz HD7950, which is enough to market it as the faster card.

 

[Grooveriding]

I think it'll be $250 for the 660 and $300 for the 660Ti. NV prob. won't want to have a $150 price gap between the 660Ti and the 670. Really, this generation shows that AMD should have been more aggressive with clocks peeds. While HD7850/7950/7970 can be manually overclocked, it's very hard to market this as a "feature." If the entire line-up was released at 1-1.1Ghz+ clock speeds, then it would have made every single Kepler card irrelevant. Too bad AMD couldn't execute this and now they are paying the price. At stock speeds the 660Ti will look good against an 800mhz HD7950, which is enough to market it as the faster card.

If AMD had it together they would launch the 7950GE ASAP and put the hurting on the 660ti before it gets out the gate.

 

[dangerman1337]

Unless the 660 Ti does very well at modern games (no BF3, Skyrim, Witcher 2 or Shogun 2 Tweaktown? lolz) I don't see this being a good buy when the 7950 is far better buy if you really want to overclock it (IIRC the 7950 can OC slightly north of 1Ghz core clock even without voltage increase). Espeically in the UK where Nvidia can get very pricey even if you take taxes into account (you can grab a MSI 7950 Twin Frozr 3 here for £269.99 inc vat meaning the ex vat price of 224.99 is 352 US dollars so its fair ex vat-wise but you can grab a 670 for a bit more for £286 inc vat though) though Since the GK104 is smaller than Tahiti (294 squared VS 365 squared) you'd figure they would be able to at least price the 670 the same as the 7950.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Nvidia doesn't have to offer better value. They never have. They have more games designed to fit their architecture, better drivers, and features such as 3D vision. As long as the value is comparable the 660ti will sell.
Having said that you'd be out of your mind to want to pay $300 for this card. It really looks like the best value is going to be waiting till the next gen of cards are released.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Unless the 660 Ti does very well at modern games (no BF3, Skyrim, Witcher 2 or Shogun 2 Tweaktown? lolz) I don't see this being a good buy when the 7950 is far better buy if you really want to overclock it (IIRC the 7950 can OC slightly north of 1Ghz core clock even without voltage increase). Espeically in the UK where Nvidia can get very pricey even if you take taxes into account (you can grab a MSI 7950 Twin Frozr 3 here for £269.99 inc vat meaning the ex vat price of 224.99 is 352 US dollars so its fair ex vat-wise but you can grab a 670 for a bit more for £286 inc vat though) though Since the GK104 is smaller than Tahiti (294 squared VS 365 squared) you'd figure they would be able to at least price the 670 the same as the 7950.

The 660Ti will be priced according to the performance compared to what's on the market right now. Whether it's a good buy it's debatable. Was the 7950 a good buy when it was launched at 450$? If you ask me, it was a disaster buy since you can get one now as low as 310$ in under six months since it was launched. Same goes for the 7970, $550 at launch and now $420.

 

[SirPauly]

Yeah, 3 generations in the future when we'll be on what, 12nm? It's like somedays windows XP will be outdated.. doesn't mean its not functional (games still run fine on 48xx and prolly just as fast as gt2xx). But u can put as much lipstick on it as you like, at some point its well you know..

As to future proofing, you can't even compare. A card that already struggles now with heavy demands vs one with a >40% OC headroom and extra vram. duh.

Downplay support all you want. I think it is great to see older generations receive new features and support instead of just newer GPU's that receive all the love to sell product right now.

 

[3DVagabond]

The 660Ti will be priced according to the performance compared to what's on the market right now. Whether it's a good buy it's debatable. Was the 7950 a good buy when it was launched at 450$? If you ask me, it was a disaster buy since you can get one now as low as 310$ in under six months since it was launched. Same goes for the 7970, $550 at launch and now $420.

That was a completely different situation created by nVidia not being ready with a competitive card. There is AMD competition for the 660ti though. I'm not sure why you are comparing the 2 situations?

 

[KCfromNC]

Nvidia has a weird quandary here.

They could price 660ti at like $239 and instantly have a massive hit (and due to the small die and simple PCB, likely still very very profitable SKU!)

Unless they don't have the yield to make enough chips to fill the demand at that price.

 

[f1sherman]

Nvidia doesn't have to offer better value. They never have. They have more games designed to fit their architecture, better drivers, and features such as 3D vision. As long as the value is comparable the 660ti will sell.

Exactly. And it's been like that since ages.

Perf/$ --> AMD

Examples:

There is only a single card in last 2 gen that Nvidia introduced with disruptive pricing, and it was GTX 460. It was a showstopper card. First Fermi needed a push, and that's why it was priced disruptively.
And although 3 months later AMD offered 6850, at lower price, with slightly better performance, HD6850 was utterly destroyed in sales by GTX460.

1) Notice extremely high 460 volumes/month and 4x bigger volume compared to 6850, despite the later just launched(!).

2) Notice 570 equaling the volume of 6970 + 6950.
Although later can be unlocked, and it is faster with maxed AA/resolution blablah... all the arguments that are pulled now to show 7950 is superior to 660 Ti.

It didn't work for AMD back then(fps @maxed settings argument),
so why does anyone think it will work now?

Thx to Grooveriding for Steam database snapshot

SKIP EVERYTHING ABOVE IF NOT INTERESTED IN MARKET/FINNACIALS
***************************************************************************

About NV "better support".
Just look at look at the 3 games TT tested - Mafia II, Just Cause 2 and Metro 2033.
AMD can't even render them with same effects like Nvidia.

So you see it's not entirely apples vs apples.
I am not going to list all the features and benefits of Nvidia, I'm sure most know them very well.

Same like current AMD generation offers added value via possible OC,
Nvidia's added value IMHO, is at least as tangible as AMD's.


It is almost entirely untrue that 660 Ti gets killed by AA/AF.

a) No modern card tanks with AF, not even with AF x16. FPS drop due to Anisotropic-filtering fps is extremely mild.
Nvidia even does trilinear by default in DX11, and it's perfectly fine, while OTOH AMD fiddles with filtering optimization every now and then.
So - NO. 660 Ti does not tank with AF.

b) Those TT AA/AF findings are with MAXED AA. Independently of arch., deferred engines tank with AA.
Particularly if its full-screen AA.
Not even 680/7970 are entirely playable at maxed settings.
So although it looks like 660 Ti tanks with maxed AA (as expected)
I have yet to see that it tanks with real-world amount of AA.

Performance of $300 GPU at maxed settings @2560 is certainly a part of the picture,
but anyone thinking that is a decisive part, is mistaken.
Because I am sure that there will be games where FSAA/TXAA will be the best solution - not MAXED MSAA,
therefore benefiting 660 Ti (FXAA), or entirely outclassing competition (TXAA)

 

[3DVagabond]

It's been what, half a year since next gen is out, I don't think NV really gives a damn about their partner's old stock.

It's not just old inventory. They haven't EOL'd some of the 500 models yet. Look on Newegg. There's 44, 600 series models and 98, 500 series. They're still the bulk of the models available.

 

[chimaxi83]

Downplay support all you want. I think it is great to see older generations receive new features and support instead of just newer GPU's that receive all the love to sell product right now.

What might be right for you, may not be right for some :whiste :

If support for obsolete, slow as crap cards (in modern games) is a major selling point for you, then by all means, stick with your favorite company.