TPP Fast track

[blankslate]

I'm rather perplexed - all fast-track legislation does is prevent Congress from adding amendments to the trade agreement, once it is finalized. The final agreement will still need congressional approval, so if something fishy comes up, they can still vote the entire agreement down.

As I understand it and I might be wrong. AFAIK Fast Track will eventually allow a vote on the bill without it being able to be held up by a filibuster or without anyone being able to amend it which was why democratic senators allowing Fast Track through by breaking the filibuster is considered shady.

They voted for Fast Track but then if no democratic senator votes for TPP being pushed through under the Fast Track will still pass.

So someone who opened the door for it by being one of the votes that gave Sen. McConnell the 60 votes needed to break the FAST track filibuster can say "I voted against TPP" and it will be true but there be a sneaky lie by omission.

In the Senate the there is enough of the majority party to vote it through without a singe democratic vote now that Fast Track has been passed. If the democratic turncoats didn't betray the middle class then Fast Track would still be held up in the Senate and we wouldn't be hoping that the House of Representatives won't betray the middle class.


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[blankslate]

china has already won.

This is sadly true.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101309177

The Pentagon repeatedly waived laws banning Chinese-built components on U.S. weapons in order to keep the $392 billion Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter program on track in 2012 and 2013, even as U.S. officials were voicing concern about China's espionage and military buildup.

According to Pentagon documents reviewed by Reuters, chief U.S. arms buyer Frank Kendall allowed two F-35 suppliers, Northrop Grumman and Honeywell International, to use Chinese magnets for the new warplane's radar system, landing gears and other hardware. Without the waivers, both companies could have faced sanctions for violating federal law and the F-35 program could have faced further delays.

When you are dependent on a foreign country to keep a weapons system on schedule something has clearly gone wrong.

China has reserves of necessary materials for manufacturing if there is a need. America with its focus on efficiency and "just in time" supply so that more profits can be made by corporations who shifted manufacturing overseas... (including the kind needed to keep American arms 100% made with American parts) has made herself vulnerable to possible foreign countries in ways that were avoidable.


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[theeedude]

Funny you are telling me to hold my party accountable, when you are excusing the behavior of your parties leader.

Cant ever blame Obama can you?

Every president wants authority to negotiate a trade deal all by himself before bringing it to Congress. Ultimately it's a decision for Congress whether to grant it or not. Hate Obama and enjoy TPP.

 

[cabri]

Every president wants authority to negotiate a trade deal all by himself before bringing it to Congress. Ultimately it's a decision for Congress whether to grant it or not. Hate Obama and enjoy TPP.

One thing to negotiate it. 😉

Another to state that you must pass it before you can review it. :thumbsdown:

 

[fskimospy]

One thing to negotiate it. 😉

Another to state that you must pass it before you can review it. :thumbsdown:

That's not what this was about. Fast track authority means that after the deal is negotiated Congress reviews it and then decides whether to pass it or not.

 

[theeedude]

Exactly. Congress still gets to review and vote up and down on the deal that the president negotiates. But they can only vote yes or no on the whole thing.

 

[TheSlamma]

Every president wants authority to negotiate a trade deal all by himself before bringing it to Congress. Ultimately it's a decision for Congress whether to grant it or not. Hate Obama and enjoy TPP.

So basically he is correct, you can't criticize your party you BELONG to.

 

[theeedude]

So basically he is correct, you can't criticize your party you BELONG to.

I am a registered independent and don't belong to a party.
But nice try.

 

[cabri]

I am a registered independent and don't belong to a party.
But nice try.

While you may claim to be a registered independent; your actions here are pure Democrat in terms of offense and defense.

 

[cabri]

Exactly. Congress still gets to review and vote up and down on the deal that the president negotiates. But they can only vote yes or no on the whole thing.

Then why the need to keep everyone from seeing what they are voting on in ADVANCE? 😕

That is what Obama is saying and doing.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's not what this was about. Fast track authority means that after the deal is negotiated Congress reviews it and then decides whether to pass it or not.

Exactly no filibuster or shenanigans majority wins. Republicans overwhelmingly support it. I'd bet most Republican voters do not support it.

 

[theeedude]

While you may claim to be a registered independent; your actions here are pure Democrat in terms of offense and defense.

I am anti-Republican Independent. Enemy of my enemy is my ally. I am not running for anything though, so not sure why you want to discuss me.

 

[fskimospy]

Then why the need to keep everyone from seeing what they are voting on in ADVANCE? 😕

That is what Obama is saying and doing.

They do get to see it before they vote on it. It's not like it goes right from acceptance to the floor of Congress on the same day.

In terms of why people can't see the treaty while it's being negotiated, that's foreign policy 101. The details of treaties aren't leaked during the discussions because they are tentative and uncertain. This is how basically every treaty has been negotiated since...well...ever.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Then why the need to keep everyone from seeing what they are voting on in ADVANCE? 😕

That is what Obama is saying and doing.

I understand why everyone can't read it at this point but allow some congress people in with advisors who can understand the damn thing read it. Multiple sources have stated its incredibly complicated and most people cannot understand it.

 

[cabri]

They do get to see it before they vote on it. It's not like it goes right from acceptance to the floor of Congress on the same day.

In terms of why people can't see the treaty while it's being negotiated, that's foreign policy 101. The details of treaties aren't leaked during the discussions because they are tentative and uncertain. This is how basically every treaty has been negotiated since...well...ever.

Then why are multiple Congressional Democrats complaining that they are not being allowed to see the information, but being asked to vote on it. 😕

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Then why are multiple Congressional Democrats complaining that they are not being allowed to see the information, but being asked to vote on it. 😕

Its back to my previous post. Seems like its written to be very complex and I'd bet the people cleared to read it need assistance with the text.
I imagine its hundreds or thousands of pages long. To read it you have to be cleared first then they have to go into a special private room without cameras or phones. No copies can be made and all notes need to stay in the special room.

 

[michal1980]

They do get to see it before they vote on it. It's not like it goes right from acceptance to the floor of Congress on the same day.

In terms of why people can't see the treaty while it's being negotiated, that's foreign policy 101. The details of treaties aren't leaked during the discussions because they are tentative and uncertain. This is how basically every treaty has been negotiated since...well...ever.

Fast track authority however hasnt always been part of the package,since...well...ever.

 

[inachu]

There was a report already made about rare earth metals and it turns out those metals and such are not really rare at all.

 

[blastingcap]

Die motherfucker die.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/12/politics/white-house-tpp-trade-deal-congress/

 

[blankslate]

Die motherfucker die.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/12/politics/white-house-tpp-trade-deal-congress/

The fact that they're talking about "trade adjustment assistance" for displaced workers is a tacit admission that the TPP will cost U.S. Jobs.

Although there are things I credit him for President Obama is plain wrong for pushing this just as President Clinton was for supporting the WTO. The difference is we have 15+ years of seeing how the WTO affected American workers and the fact that any president or member of any branch of government supports something like TPP is sickening.


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[shady28]

The fact that they're talking about "trade adjustment assistance" for displaced workers is a tacit admission that the TPP will cost U.S. Jobs.


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It is amazing to me that people don't realize this.

TAA was the consolation prize offered up to Americans for our politicians selling out jobs with TPP.

So Dems and Repubs got together and killed the TAA, removing the consolation prize.

If that doesn't tell people that Dems and Repubs are both on the take and don't represent anyone but themselves and their lobbyists, nothing will.

It is really way past time to eject both of these parties and get something new.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I believe TAA was removed to prevent others from voting for fast track. McConnell type tactic.

 

[sportage]

I doubt most here have a clue as to what they are even talking about, besides repeating talking points heard off Fox and CNN.

 

[First]

Yeah, except I'm not sure how this helps progressive Dems, given that next week, I don't really see how Dems will stop Repubs from attempting to peal off 6 Dems in the Senate to advance TPP without the TAA, killing it entirely. No TAA will peel off some Freedom Caucus House conservatives to vote for TPP, meaning they won't need any/many Dems to vote for it, and House Dems will have (inadvertently) produced much more conservative trade legislation.

It's annoying watching a party's blind spots produce weaker legislation, and certainly this is a classic example of it.

 

[werepossum]

This is sadly true.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101309177

When you are dependent on a foreign country to keep a weapons system on schedule something has clearly gone wrong.

China has reserves of necessary materials for manufacturing if there is a need. America with its focus on efficiency and "just in time" supply so that more profits can be made by corporations who shifted manufacturing overseas... (including the kind needed to keep American arms 100% made with American parts) has made herself vulnerable to possible foreign countries in ways that were avoidable.

....

Yep. Turns out that Lenin was absolutely correct - he just missed that the rope itself will be made by Communists who sell it to us so that we can sell it back to the Communists.