• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

TPP Fast track

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
"These kinds of agreements make sure that the global economy's rules aren't written by countries like China; they're written by the United States of America," Obama said. "And to stand in their way is to do nothing but preserve the long-term status quo for American workers, and make it even harder for them to succeed."
Click to expand...

lie through your teeth much obummer?!
 
Haha, anti-trade people are just odd. How can anyone possibly say this deal will be good or bad without reading the text. This shows the true anti-capitalistic colors of a lot of Dems and progs.
 
First said:
Haha, anti-trade people are just odd. How can anyone possibly say this deal will be good or bad without reading the text. This shows the true anti-capitalistic colors of a lot of Dems and progs.
Click to expand...

To me its about the process, lobbyists get a big say. The document being so protected and history. Doesn't feel like our recent trade deals have bettered our condition.

So yeah I guess I'm anti-trade
 
Personally I'm getting tired of the Pork farmers whining about how this deal would help pork exports.

*edit* ugh Pelosi stated it sure would be nice if the transportation bill got the same attention. Sounds like an offer has been floated.
 
Last edited:
Fanatical Meat said:
To me its about the process, lobbyists get a big say. The document being so protected and history. Doesn't feel like our recent trade deals have bettered our condition.

So yeah I guess I'm anti-trade
Click to expand...

Your "feelings" don't really encompass the full picture, all due respect. Trade has undeniably been a net positive for middle class Americans. It's easy to see the negative (lost jobs in certain manufacturing sectors) while ignoring the vast reduction in cost and increase in quality of goods, particularly technology, manufactured overseas that are nowhere onerous to buy (computers, smartphones, etc.) that would certainly not be the case if trade was stifled. Of course trade could be fairer, but that's a different question since the trade itself is far superior to the alternative Dems are proposing (that is to say, nothing, as of right now).
 
First said:
Your "feelings" don't really encompass the full picture, all due respect. Trade has undeniably been a net positive for middle class Americans. It's easy to see the negative (lost jobs in certain manufacturing sectors) while ignoring the vast reduction in cost and increase in quality of goods, particularly technology, manufactured overseas that are nowhere onerous to buy (computers, smartphones, etc.) that would certainly not be the case if trade was stifled. Of course trade could be fairer, but that's a different question since the trade itself is far superior to the alternative Dems are proposing (that is to say, nothing, as of right now).
Click to expand...

The dems are funny.

They are for the importing of millions of low wage/skill workers, but against those people have jobs in their own countries.
 
First said:
Your "feelings" don't really encompass the full picture, all due respect. Trade has undeniably been a net positive for middle class Americans. It's easy to see the negative (lost jobs in certain manufacturing sectors) while ignoring the vast reduction in cost and increase in quality of goods, particularly technology, manufactured overseas that are nowhere onerous to buy (computers, smartphones, etc.) that would certainly not be the case if trade was stifled. Of course trade could be fairer, but that's a different question since the trade itself is far superior to the alternative Dems are proposing (that is to say, nothing, as of right now).
Click to expand...

That's the problem. I really don't think most things you need are cheaper. Yes cars are better made, PC's & Smart Phones are a good value and yes I like my TV better than an CRT Tube TV but its all shit you don't need.
 
First said:
Your "feelings" don't really encompass the full picture, all due respect. Trade has undeniably been a net positive for middle class Americans. It's easy to see the negative (lost jobs in certain manufacturing sectors) while ignoring the vast reduction in cost and increase in quality of goods, particularly technology, manufactured overseas that are nowhere onerous to buy (computers, smartphones, etc.) that would certainly not be the case if trade was stifled. Of course trade could be fairer, but that's a different question since the trade itself is far superior to the alternative Dems are proposing (that is to say, nothing, as of right now).
Click to expand...

Have YOU read the entire TPP? If not then please stop criticizing people who oppose it in part because the TPP has NOT been transparent. Pro-TPP have the burden of proving it's an improvement from the status quo. Refusing to show cards does not help meet that burden.
 
Fanatical Meat said:
That's the problem. I really don't think most things you need are cheaper. Yes cars are better made, PC's & Smart Phones are a good value and yes I like my TV better than an CRT Tube TV but its all shit you don't need.
Click to expand...

Huh? Better cars, PC's, smartphones and TV's support millions of US jobs, to say nothing of the vast improvement in quality of life. I run my business off my phone with apps whose subscriptions cost me virtually nothing. That inexpensiveness is tied in part to the cheap cost of hardware (and some software certainly) made and developed overseas. Smartphones are a perfect example of an industry that has essentially been fostered in huge part due to the free exchange of technology and goods/services across international borders. You can claim all you like that the US should manufacture that stuff here, but what you're really saying is that consequences be damned, ignoring other country's comparative advantage (more people, land, less wages, looser regulations, etc.).
 
blastingcap said:
Have YOU read the entire TPP?
Click to expand...

Did I claim to? Nope.

If not then please stop criticizing people who oppose it in part because the TPP has NOT been transparent.
Click to expand...

You realize that negotiations are never transparent, right? That's literally the exact opposite purpose of a negotiation; it's supposed to be secret! Come on. The whole thing, by law, will be aired out in public for 2 months, it's really not controversial in that sense at all.

Pro-TPP have the burden of proving it's an improvement from the status quo. Refusing to show cards does not help meet that burden.
Click to expand...

They have shown various congresspersons, in classified private briefings, the exact contents of the on-going TPP deal. This is well known. They're not voting to pass TPP language right now, they're voting for fast track. Get it?
 
Fanatical Meat said:
Its back to my previous post. Seems like its written to be very complex and I'd bet the people cleared to read it need assistance with the text.
Click to expand...

From what I heard it is not written plainly and often refers to other laws that have been pass in the text of the TPP bill so that you would have to look of the other law to make heads or tails of it.

Which isn't really possible considering the restrictions they have on people going to look it up. It should be released in public so anyone interested can find out what it actually says.

The fact that the law is being hidden until after Fast Track is approved should indicate to the dumbest individual that there are things in there that are just shitty.


....
 
master_shake_ said:
again the TPP is not about trade.

not at all.

it is really about corporate sovereignty.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...sively-undermine-government-sovereignty.shtml
Click to expand...

Yawn, been debunked a bunch of times.

For one, there's so little case law and no documented successes (I think maybe one) in foreign gov'ts challenging stricter local laws that it's a red herring to begin with. A power that gets "expanded" is only as useful as the likelihood it'll be enforced in the courts. It's irrelevant otherwise. I'm not an attorney though so I won't pretend to play one here. Two, and perhaps just as importantly, why would the most nativist conservatives in modern history in the House vote for legislation that would give up US sovereignty? That's like Dems voting for abolishing Medicare or Repubs voting for pro-choice legislation. It just makes you sound stupid.
 
First said:
Yawn, been debunked a bunch of times.

For one, there's so little case law and no documented successes (I think maybe one) in foreign gov'ts challenging stricter local laws that it's a red herring to begin with. A power that gets "expanded" is only as useful as the likelihood it'll be enforced in the courts. It's irrelevant otherwise. I'm not an attorney though so I won't pretend to play one here. Two, and perhaps just as importantly, why would the most nativist conservatives in modern history in the House vote for legislation that would give up US sovereignty? That's like Dems voting for abolishing Medicare or Repubs voting for pro-choice legislation. It just makes you sound stupid.
Click to expand...

show me the debunking.

please.
 
norseamd said:
So if these "insignificant drafts" were so bad
Click to expand...

They weren't necessarily bad, final or frankly even interpretable by 90% of the turds occupying Congress. It's dense legalese.

then why would the final bill be that much different?
Click to expand...

A final bill is usually substantially different from months-old drafts. I imagine the same concept applies to trade bills.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top