To those who say Tupac was NOT a poet

[KidViciou$]

yo genoicide, i was listening to rap attack, which happens to be on of the 2 only REAL hiphop shows out here in MD. they were playing that new Wu song, and i was unintentionally clipping my nails to the beat. hiphop flows through my veins. sometimes ill sit in class not paying attention because im thinking of beats, and ill get so deep in mythought im rockin my head and makin beats wiht my mouth. i stop before anyone notices though

 

[geno]

<< this is why we ARE posting in this forums. trying to change opinions >>


I can't say that I intentionally try to change people's opinions. What I do expect to do is to at least get some respect for the genre. But essentially I guess you could say I try to change minds, but I only do that by trying to get the respect it deserves. Also I'm sure you guys hate the ignorance that's flying around.

Also what I don't get is this, why do you feel the need to come in here and trash Hip Hop? Do we (by we I mean us &quot;advocates&quot come into your rock threads and trash rock/alternative? No! We don't. And I never will because I'm better than that and I don't think it's neccessary. Apparently you guys do think it is, so feel free to do your worst...

 

[KidViciou$]

the reason i dont trash those threads is because some songs i enjoy are rock. although i have a passion for hiphop, i have diversified my taste. i enjoy symphony at times, rock at times, and r&amp;b which is finally starting to soudn better

 

[geno]

KV, I love it, it's my life. Unfortunately there's not too much around my area (Close to Boston) for it. I wanna try catching some shows (I've heard we get some underground performances in Boston once in a while). I haven't always had such a profound respect for it as I do now. I'm a certifiable Hip Hop head, I friggin love the music. Ever since I started listening to Mos Def and Common, a whole new type of Rap/Hip Hop has been opened up to me. I'd rather listen to the cats that people sleep on, but it still kills me that they don't get the respect it deserves. The majority would rather listen to mindless drivel...guess that says alot about the majority...

Anyways - Its good to see some fellow headz out there. =)





<< the reason i dont trash those threads is because some songs i enjoy are rock >>


That's cool, it shows that you're not narrow minded. I don't listen to rock, doesn't do much for me. Now - I didn't say I don't like it, because it doesn't bother me or affect me negatively. So I don't trash it, I respect it because I guess I'm just like that

 

[KidViciou$]

i really started considering myself an advocate after i listened to dead prez. that got me so damn pumped about how good hiphop is that i listened to mos def which i didnt like too much when it came out, roots which i felt the same about, and some other REAL artists. im not saying i didnt like hiphop, but i wasnt an &quot;advocate&quot;. also, i think guru played a factor in me listening to REAL hiphop

 

[KidViciou$]

i came up with this post while thinking about hiphop in the shower.

when i referred to &quot;aware rappers&quot; i meant to use the media coined phrase &quot;concious rappers&quot;. also, another EXCELLENT lyricist who is sadly deceased has to be none other than Big L. i KNOW you heard his last and final album genocide

 

[KidViciou$]

you know who i dont like at all though? MOP

 

[geno]

<< i KNOW you heard his last and final album genocide >>


Bought it the day it came out! =)

And as for MOP, they're not the best, but I like their flare. Between their performances with Big Pun and Busta, I'm starting to like their style. I can't see listening to a whole CD of them tho - too much friggin yelling for my taste, but it's good once in a while to hear a song with 'em.

 

[atom]

<< Those that were fed with a gold spoon, really have a harder time relating to good rap. >>



So? Most people who listen to rap cannot relate to stuff said in rap, although they might think they do since they &quot;feel&quot; the music. Whatever. Simple fact is a sizable chunk of rap album sales are coming from middle class or higher surburbanites.

I think the first time I changed my mind about hip hop was the first time I heard Illidelph Halflife from The Roots. I was listening to stuff like Pac at the time and The Roots showed me good hip hop beyond the gangsta rap stuff at the time.

BTW just had to add I just heard &quot;Boom&quot; from Royce da 5'9&quot; and &quot;X-Man&quot; from Sadat X and thay are both kickass.

 

[slunk]

I pretty much hate all rap music, but I do agree that Tupac was a poet. I get fed up with all the gangster sh*t, but he possessed somethings others didn't. What exactly that was, I don't know, but it gave me respect for him.

collin

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

If you want a simple argument for 2pac being a poet, here it is: his lyrics fit a rhythm. Perhaps you people might have some elitist tendency to associate poetry with deep thoughts and wonderful insight. Well that's only the second and third definition. The fact is, being the author of a metrical verse is sufficient for him to fit that description. End of story. Conclusion: 2pac is a poet not only in the opinions of several people on this board, but under the dictionary definition as well.

I already mentioned the themes that 2pac expresses. They are not all about killing people and boning b*tches, you ignorant SOB's! So he doesn't talk about dancing on green meadows and smiling at the sunshine. So what? That's not his inspiration. 2pac expressed another part of the world to the masses... a world that was previously hidden from mainstream America's suburban middle class.

2pac expressed themes of optimism despite seeming hopelessness, regret for his actions, anger at society's prejudice and injustice towards African American men, and uncertainty of his faith. When you actually hear what words are being said on those tracks, you would probably observe those themes. I suspect that many of you who hold such flippant and arrogant views have no idea what he is saying on his songs. All you probably hear are harsh sounds that you associate according to your prejudice.

It's easy dismissing something you have no understanding of as garbage, idiocy, and bad. But then again, it's easy being an ass also.

 

[geno]

Finally! Some sanity around here ;[/b])

 

[KidViciou$]

genocide, i went to a mystikal concert last night. OMG!!! you should have SEEN how many HIGH ASS ROLLERS that were there. there cars were HOOKED UP!!! i saw infinitis, benz, navigators!!!!

and the ladies....... OMG got me HUMMIN AND HUMMIN AND HUMMIN LIKE A DAWG.

too bad im a broke willie

$35 to get in, plus you cant wear tennis shoes. i was straight, ahd a pair of tims on, but my boys werent dressed. we would have gone in except for the fact that ALL cars were being towed. we had to park near a bar and people told us our car would get towed, so we couldnt even go all the way in. my friend stayed at the car, so meand another friend went up there and saw all the FLY shorties in MD, VA, AND DC!!! even the COPS were getting MAD play!!! hahah, oh well, within one year ill be up there as a high roller.

 

I thought West Coast hip-hop was bad, then came Southern hip-hop. It can't get any worse than that.

 

[KidViciou$]

you tellin me outkast is bad?

 

yes

 

[KidViciou$]

i tell you you are crazy

 

[geno]

KV - Damn I wish we got some more shows around here like that. I missed the Hard Knock Life tour and I'm still kicking myself in the ass for it.

And as for Outkast, dwell you gotta be kiddin me, they are the FRESHEST act out there right now - no one can touch their creativity. They're been doin it for a long time too, I have Aquemeni and ATLiens, both are so damn hot, the content is top notch. Granted, the south isn't known for their lyrical content, and I'm not a fan of 90% of the south (Cash money is ok, I think they're dead in the water once Mannie Fresh loses his creativity, and No Limit? God help them all). I have to give Mystikal credit for breaking away from the standard No Limit video/song, so he gets a pat on the back from me =)

 

[geno]

That reminds me, I found the hottest track today while I was at work. If you can find the mp3, it's The Express - By Talib Kweli, and his album is droppin next tuesday. I knew it was gonna be hot, but after hearing a few tracks from it I gotta say it's gonna be blazin. I never knew Talib could rip it up and I always saw him as being Mos Def's less talented sidekick, but he really comes into his own on this album - and I urge each and every one of you to at least peep it.

 

[KidViciou$]

is that the joint where he has a collabo on it?

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

blackstar was da shizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[KidViciou$]

yo genocide, you know who's singing i LOVE? Anita Baker, her voice makes me melt man. i LOVE her songs, she is one of the best singers IMO

 

[KidViciou$]

OMG WAS they

 

[dennilfloss]

<<Villon was also a poet (but a great one) and still a punk. As for Verlaine and Baudelaire, at least they only hurt themselves (and maybe each other). Ditto for Oscar Wilde.
>>

Here I simply mention that some great poets were also punks. By saying 'also, I did imply that Tupac is doing poetry. I did not say that he wasn't a poet.

<< I feel so strange even mentioning such great names in a thread about a punk like Tupac, who had less talent than most of my students >>

Here I did not say he was talentless. I said that as far as being a poet is concerned, I consider him to have less talent than most of my students. That is obviously a subjective opinion. The possibility also exists that most of my students are great poets. Afterall, their exam answers often contain more style than substance.

<<There's a reason he sold over 10 million copies of his albums, because what he said was real, and it all came from the heart - album after album he managed to do it the same. That takes talent dennil, and I'm sorry if you feel different.>>

Reality does not equate talent (For example, if Vanilla Ice had had a real criminal record, that wouldn't have made him more or less talented. It's irrelevant. Some really awful songs have been written about real military battles.). Telling it from the heart does not equate talent (Some heartless bastard can be more talented than a very sensitive individual). Selling 10 million albums does not equate talent (think Milli Vanilli). It's not what subject was described, whether or not the words were heartfelt and how many copies sold that reflect talent. It's how the lyrics were constructed, their lyricism, their metaphors, the level of their rhymes, the choice of words. If, following your title, we are to judge Tupac's value as a poet, we should base our judgement strictly on his poetry. Not on the music, not on the production, not on the success achived by the sales and promotion team. It is in that framework that I find him wanting according to my preferred esthetics. I am not a big fan of free form poetry. Obviously his words touch you deeply and for many that equals talent. I respect that. I agree that this might be viewed as talent. However I do not have to also like the words or be touched by them in the same way.

<<I'm sorry dennil, I mean no disrespect here - but when you come here and insult something I love, well, it's only natural for me to react. I'm sure you'd hate it if I called someone you love a loser or a moron.>>

I did not insult him. Read my words carefully. I just expressed my opinion of how I casually value the poetry of his lyrics and found it wanting. I don't think that my words were inflammatory. I happen to love Bob Dylan's singing and you did not see me go ballistic when he was made fun of in two threads some time ago. You guys should learn to accept that other people may have different opinions and values. Knee jerk reactions are bad for your stress levels.

Being a little more careful in reading what a person exactly said before one reacts can also avoid needless confrontations.

That's all I have to say.

Emotional (Carl Thomas)

 

I am not crazy, I just strongly dislike Southern style hip-hop.