To those who say Tupac was NOT a poet

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The world is full of poets. All you have to do is dump your feelings into a verse. It really does not matter how bad it is. If just one person can relate to what you are trying to express then, well, mission accomplished.

"Let us turn to page 15, Dr. James Evrett Prichard PHD's excellent essay, 'Understanding Poetry.'" -- Dead Poets Society
 

pen^2

Banned
Apr 1, 2000
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KidViciou$, have you read a book called "Ice opinions"? do yourself a favor and read it if you havnt yet...
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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When my dog has to take a pooper
I always take a long the scooper

there, now I'm a poet.

Tupac was trash
 

mosdef

Banned
May 14, 2000
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Seriously though guys, if you have no respect for hip-hop music give me one shot to sway you by checking out my first post in this thread with all the songs. If those don't move you, then I guess you are lost for ever...

-mosdef
 

Psychoholic

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
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You want a record deal, AaronP??? I heard Tupac's label has an opening.

According to KidViciou$ you are a poet-


<< you see, what you fail to understand is this. for one to be a poet, they must have experienced what they are writing about. otherwise they would be fiction authors. now when you write about your experiences, you must express them in a creative way. >>



Your &quot;poem&quot; is about your experiances taking out your dog. Great stuff, get on with yo badself!!!
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
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I didn't say it wasn't poetry, I said it would be hard to define it as poetry. What I meant that if it is poetry, it isn't the best. To each is own. :)


Now I'm going to really say it's not poetry! :)

There's a reason one is called music and one is called poetry. Music can be deep, thoughtful, and emotional, but it is music. Poetry can be sophomoric and shallow, but it is poetry. Get what I'm saying? I don't classify any music (that I've heard atleast) as poetry. Dictionary entries can be taken out of context.

 

Raj

Senior member
Aug 14, 2000
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Tupac had a certain pain in his voice and in his lyrics
that no other has been able to capture. tupac was a poet
the only difference is the way he displayed or chose to
express his poetry was different from any other black
poet has written. he was a preacher as martin luther king
he was a fighter for Blacks as was fredrick douglass to
the slaves. no one has come close to putting to words of
life on the streets as tupac did. I leave you with a piece
that i never forget.


&quot;had enough of this gangbangin.
homies died in my arms with his brains hangin.
f*cked up, I had to tell em it was alright
and thats a lie, and he knew it when he shook and died
my god, even though i know i know i am wrong man
hennessey make a nigg* think he strong man.&quot;

it may not sound that much poetic. but, you have to listen to him say it.
the pain in his voice and in his lyrics becomes very clear.


R.I.P.

Tupac Shakur still lives in our hearts
 

mosdef

Banned
May 14, 2000
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werk - How can a dictionary's definition be taking out of context? If you don't agree with the dictionary's definition then maybe you should change your views, because the dictionary does not lie!

peace

-mosdef
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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well right now im sorta risking my job to prove my love for TRUE hiphop. (we arents supposed to use the internet)

Like i said, not all poetry has to be contemporary. its all about expression, and experiences. your telling me at some of those poetry cafes they dont have bass's and drums? those instrument help better enhance the experience.

just like Tupac's tracks, they help better the experience. IMO Hiphop IS a true art form wether it is stupid materialistic songs like CMR or Jay-Z, or artists that are aware like MosDef, Guru, Dead Prez. dont get me wrong, i never said i dont listen to CMR or Jay-Z, thats the type of stuff that gets me pumped, like at a party or club. i jsut dont consider that poetry. just like how people dont consider E.B. White a poet because of his style.

i think that would have to be my best analogy, that is how i TRULY feel about this. I never used to like E.B. White until i broke down his poems. i was assigned a poem by him, and thought, dear god....

but i opened my mind, and then i came to see how excellent of a poet he was. i truly have more respect for E.B. White as a poet now then i did when i first read his poetry.

I have never read or heard of &quot;Ice opinons&quot;. what is it about?

basically, the last year of my life would probably be the most important so far. i have learned to not be close minded. i had 2 EXCELLENT english teachers, who have allowed me to enjoy english as a study more than any other teacher. now i look forward to spring semester when i can begin my classes.

finally, i dont expect everyone to enjoy every authors poetry, but at least acknowledge it for being art. i agree with mosdef, if you think &quot;rap is crap&quot;, please open your mind as i have done and listen to some of those songs. if you cant understand what they are saying, check out this website, [l]http://www.ohhla.com[/l]. they have lyrics to ALL rap songs, or even just let us know what song oyu want lyrics to and we will find it for you.
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
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Damn this thread blew up when I wasn't even around. Pac was a genious, he could portray the same setting through many different descriptions, and it was all real. He never talked bull$hit, everything he said, he meant. He was a poet as well, I don't care what anyone says, he had poetic talent. That was his inspiration for all of his music. To all the ignorant people posting &quot;Pac was garbage&quot;, well good for you, you've successfully proven yourself as a moron. If you're not going to say anything constructive, then please stay the hell out of this thread - thank you.
 

pen^2

Banned
Apr 1, 2000
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&quot;Ice Opinions&quot; is an autobiography of Ice T; you will be amazed at the broad scope of experience he has had in his life...
 

Midnight Rambler

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Hey K.V., I was just jokin' about the Shakespeare reference. But at least you were sharp enough to catch it.

How to define music? Tough to do, but one thing is that melody is an important element, and until very recently, rap was totally void of it.

If you note, I did not deny it was an art form, just not music. And yes, there's lots of music that I do not care for, but it's music nonetheless. However, any way you slice it, rap is lacking musically. Creativity plays a part as well, and this is another area where rap falls on its butt. I absolutely detest sampling and have no tolerance for it. It's weak, plain and simple. Play it yourself, and make it original, or I don't wanna hear it.

I don't wanna be too hard on rap here, so I'd like to add that grunge sucks too! :D :D :D
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
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dennilfloss.blogspot.com
Villon was also a poet (but a great one) and still a punk. As for Verlaine and Baudelaire, at least they only hurt themselves (and maybe each other). Ditto for Oscar Wilde.

For the unaware, from MSN Encarta:

&quot;Villon, Fran&ccedil;ois (1431?-1463?), French poet, considered by many scholars France's outstanding lyric poet, famous for the beauty and originality, as well as the evocative quality, of his verse.

Villon was born in or near Paris in 1431. His real name is thought to have been either Fran&ccedil;ois de Montcorbier or Fran&ccedil;ois des Loges. He assumed the name Villon, however, out of gratitude to his patron Guillaume de Villon, a chaplain and professor of canon law. While earning the degree of bachelor of arts (1449) and master of arts (1452) at the Sorbonne, Villon participated fully in the roistering academic life of the time. In 1455 he killed a priest in a street brawl. A year later he was involved in the theft of 500 crowns from the chapel of the Coll&egrave;ge de Navarre in Paris, for which crime he was banished.

During the next four years (1456-60) Villon wandered about France. In 1461 he was arrested by order of the bishop of Orl&eacute;ans and imprisoned in the town of Meung. After a few months, however, he and his fellow prisoners were pardoned by Louis XI.

Villon returned to Paris in 1462, but quickly got into serious trouble again. He was arrested as a result of his presence at a serious fracas and was condemned to death. About a year later, his sentence was commuted to banishment from Paris. Information on his activities thereafter has not been found.

Villon's great merit as a poet lies in the subjectivity of his verse. He candidly expressed what he felt, whether good or bad, and his frankness about himself led him to write with equal frankness about others; his poems, therefore, present a colorful and generally reliable picture of his times. His major writings include Les lais (The Lays), also called Le petit testament (The Little Testament), written in 1456, and Le testament, also called Le grand testament (The Great Testament), written in 1461. Both poems are composed of eight-line stanzas, with eight syllables to a line. Le grand testament, which ironically and sincerely reviews his own vagabond life and also human life in general, includes a number of ballades and rondeaux. Among Villon's minor work are some half-dozen poems written in underworld slang.&quot;

I feel so strange even mentioning such great names in a thread about a punk like Tupac, who had less talent than most of my students and they do not consider themselves poets.

Low Budget (The Kinks)
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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midnight, thats where youre wrong about creativity in hiphop though. lets get that right first, hiphop. rap can be anything from reggae to limpbizkit. hiphop is what we are talking about. i know it can be easy to confuse the two :p

but like i was saying, you dont find it creative how new life can be breathed into songs of the past? i find it incredibly creative to sample a once great song, and make it great once again with almost no similarities except for the sample. but i guess thats just ones opinion.

p.s. i was excited when i was able to write with iambic pantemeter back in 8th grade, almost had one of my poems published for the umpteenth time. people kept trying to dawg me sayin i didnt right it which really puzzled me. i didnt consider it one of my best poems, but everyone else was going crazy over it, including my teacher. it was a poem for black history month
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
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Midnight - sampling can be a great thing when used in moderation. What songs/artists come to mind when you think of sampling? If you say Puff Daddy I'm gonna scream ;[/b]) Honestly, I've heard songs that take very old samples (Jurassic 5, some older Wu Tang), Have you ever heard Hard Knock Life by Jay Z? Not the epitomy of creative sampling, but definitly a great example. If you can't see creativity in sampling, then I'm not gonna try to change your mind. But don't knock Hip Hop as being unoriginal because you think that. You're knocking half of the Dance/Techno genre as well when you say sampling is unoriginal =)




<< I feel so strange even mentioning such great names in a thread about a punk like Tupac, who had less talent than most of my students >>


Dennil, I never thought I'd say this to you but: If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. Saying Pac was talentless is plain out ignorant. When you have the balls to spill your heart out to 6 million people like Pac did, then be my guest to give it a shot
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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OMG, I DONT BELIEVE I MISSED THAT QUOTE!!!

dennil, i know yo uhave heard at least SOME of tupacs song, but im curious what songs they were. what would make you call him a &quot;talentless punk&quot;?
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
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<< what would make you call him a &quot;talentless punk&quot;? >>


More importantly - what gives you the right? I'm sorry dennil, I mean no disrespect here - but when you come here and insult something I love, well, it's only natural for me to react. I'm sure you'd hate it if I called someone you love a loser or a moron. There's a reason he sold over 10 million copies of his albums, because what he said was real, and it all came from the heart - album after album he managed to do it the same. That takes talent dennil, and I'm sorry if you feel different.
 

pg22

Platinum Member
Feb 9, 2000
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To the people who are (rightly) defending Tupac as a talent, consider the type of people who post on a computer-informaton based Internet BBS......


....not exactly you're target demographic for rap fans.
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
2,189
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true

Those that were fed with a gold spoon, really have a harder time relating to good rap.
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
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Exactly Impact - that's why I find it SO damn ignorant when I hear people post using the words &quot;talentless&quot; and &quot;unoriginal&quot; in these threads. That's why they have no right to say those things - just stay the hell out of these conversations if you're going to be ignorant. I put up with enough of that just by being an advocate of Hip Hop.
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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this is why we ARE posting in this forums. trying to change opinions, and i TOO am an active advocate of hiphop. i love EVERYTHING about hiphop, there is NOTHING i dont enjoy about it. and all the old school jams get me pumped like a mug if they have a good dj spinnin them
 

pg22

Platinum Member
Feb 9, 2000
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Impact55 &amp; genocide -

I can tell you that 2Pac's music is my absolute favorite. I consider his &quot;All Eyez On Me&quot; to be the greatest album I have ever heard. And yes, Dennil's comment's were a little on the low side, but you have to realize that the type of music a person likes is clearly relative to their social &quot;type&quot; (for lack of a better word). I don't know dennil, nor have I ever spoken to him, but I have seen his picture, and from that, I can assume that he would not be the person that enjoys listening to rap. What do I mean by that? Well, most people can obviously see that middle-aged people do not like rap, and most despise it. Sure, that's a blanket statement and there will be those who do not fall under the majority, but it is, undoutably, the truth (And I apologize for using you as an example Mr. floss :) ).

My middle-aged father (and mother) absolutely despises rap. And I can honestly say I have never, ever, met a parent (who are mostly, middle-aged adults) who has liked it. Think about it, it's almost exactly like back in the 50's or 60's when kids parents back then thought Rock &amp; Rock (and Elvis) were nothing short of the Devil.

It's almost exactly the same now, except that rap has probably taken the &quot;moral&quot; values and turned them upside down. But as a 19 year old rap, and rock fan, I have other things on my mind :)