Can't believe the words genius, poet and brilliant go together with tupac, 2pac, sixpac, pacman, whatever his name is. His 'music' (and I use that term loosely) was total inane drivel, his lifestyle was that of violence and hatred..... and this is 'brilliance' nowadays? Yipes....
Just because something rhymes doesn't mean its great poetry...have you ever read something by noted American or English poets...? I don't think I'm lying when I say that if I sat down for a couple of hours I could come up with something like "i cry"
I'm not saying his music was good or bad, because I've only heard a few songs...just that this doesn't strike me as something that will go down in the history books as great (or even particularly good) poetry.
He was a gangster thug who wrote what some would loosely call music. By your description all musicians (and again I use this term in a loose manner) could be considered poets. So yes, if all it takes to be a poet is to have a couple of rhymes then Eazy-E was a great poet, and Kid Rock must sit right up there with the best of them.
I love when people get bent out of shape discussing the musical talents of artists. They are musicians people, they provide entertainment. You may like them, you may not like them, that is the way it goes. Whether or not they have any talent is irrelavent. My kid is 4, his papercuttings are not going to win any awards, but they are more important to me than any art. AC/DC has little pure musical talent, but I like listening to them. Keanu Reeves is not the worlds greatest actor, but I enjoy watching his movies. It is all a matter of personal preference.
Just for the record, I usually don't like rap, but I do really like Tupac's music. Though, I was rarely impressed with his actions in public.
<<His 'music' (and I use that term loosely) was total inane drivel, his lifestyle was that of violence and hatred..... and this is 'brilliance' nowadays? Yipes>> Rarely do we really want to delve into the lifestyles of artistic people, such people tend to be driven by a single purpose and as such the rest of their lives are usually in complete shambles..........
<< AC/DC has little pure musical talent, but I like listening to them. >>
It's nice to see someone who understands music for what it is. Just because you like the singer or music doesn't mean they're a poet or some deep inspirational person. It just means you like their music, period.
While I don't care for Tupac I will admit his music appeals to a certain number of people. However just because you may like his music doesn't mean he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
ratkil's got some good points. While I would consider the first post in this thread about as much poetry as that stupid Kid Rock song about how nobody understands him (Actually, looking at it they're kinda similar), I don't mind Tupac's music. While I hated the kind of stuff he did (violence, hate, killing...), I kinda enjoyed some of his songs.
I understand where KidViciou$ is coming from, though. When I was sixteen I thought that Kurt Cobain was some sort of musical/lyrical genius. Looking back and listening to Nirvana's music, I see they weren't the most talented group of guys. Hell, Dave Grohl may have more musical talent than Cobain did... and that's not saying a whole lot In spite of all that I still enjoy listening to their music.
you see, what you fail to understand is this. for one to be a poet, they must have experienced what they are writing about. otherwise they would be fiction authors. now when you write about your experiences, you must express them in a creative way. many people would think that tupac is just a "Thug" and has no emotions. this is exactly what he was expressing in this poem, perhaps you should read it and understand it from the eyes of a street "thug".
engine, one thing you got wrong is the fact that i might be saying this because of my age. i consider REAL hiphop TRUE poetry. that doesnt mean i dont consider orthodox poetry. once for a project in school, we had to analyze about 10 poems, and they couldnt be short or weak poemse either, and they had to be from one author. well i chose The Guru from Gangstarr. let me tell you that i not only got the highest grade for my analysis, but also changed MANY views about hiphop. it CAN be an art form, but dont let people like Cash Money or Jay-Z trick you, they are NOT poets.
ratkil,not all musicians are entertainers. some are artists, and artist can be visual, as well as mental. tupac was a mental artist, he spoke of his experiences in detail, but he also spoke of his emotions which is what i posted.
skoorb, not to say that it WILL happen, because it probably wont for various reasons i wont get into, people never thought Elvis would go into history books, and that his music was "noise"
midnight rambler, who says every poets style must be that of Shakesperes? and please DO define music, i hope you dont think music is something only YOU like
Don't be so quick to judge the so-called "black music". There is a great difference between the depraved mainstream 'hip hop' and the music that better represents this art form. If you want a new perspective on hip-hop, please check out the following songs. Unless you are extremely stubborn on your views of this music, I believe you will have a new appreciation. Most importantly, if you do listen to these songs, try and listen to the lyrics.
Common - Retrospect For Life
Common - I Used to Love H.E.R.
Roots, D'Angelo, Erika Badu (rmx)- The Notic [check out live if possible]
Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common - Respiration
Blackstar (Mos Def & Talib Kweli) - Definition, RE-Definition, Determination, and Thieves in the Night
Atmopshere - God's Bathroom Floor
J-Live - Braggin Writes
Common - thisisme
Common - G.O.D. (Gaining One's Definition)
>>i consider REAL hiphop TRUE poetry
>>but dont let people like Cash Money or Jay-Z trick you, they are NOT poets.
>> who says every poets style must be that of [Tupac]
Pot? Are you calling Kettle names again?
Anyway, I still am with Napalm and think that the poem in the first post was, well, sophomoric. Read that, then the lyrics to that stupid (although catchy) Kid Rock song. They're basically the same sentiment, and neither of them seem all that honest to me.
To KidViciou$ and werk - This might be the equivalent of shooting myself in the foot, but why do you say the work people such as Tupac (werk), and Cash Money and Jay-Z (Kid) are not poetry? While their subject matter may not always be abstract or thoughtful, it doesn't mean that one cannot consider them as poetry. One man's trash is another man's treasure - it's all how you look at the music. And you still really haven't explained what you mean by poetry.
Main Entry: po·et·ry
Pronunciation: 'pO-&-trE, -i-trE also 'po(-)i-trE
Date: 14th century
1 a : metrical writing : VERSE b : the productions of a poet : POEMS
2 : writing that formulates a concentrated imaginative awareness of experience in language chosen and arranged to create a specific emotional response through meaning, sound, and rhythm
3 a : something likened to poetry especially in beauty of expression b : poetic quality or aspect <the poetry of dance>
I don't see how the Hot Boyz for example don't fall under this. They speak of experiences, regardless of how inane or ridiculous they are. They have metrical writing with a rhyming scheme. While I would not call any of these people poets, I would definately consider that their work can be considered poetry.
<< Anyway, I still am with Napalm and think that the poem in the first post was, well, sophomoric. Read that, then the lyrics to that stupid (although catchy) Kid Rock song. They're basically the same sentiment, and neither of them seem all that honest to me. >>
Please don't confuse opinion with fact. Just because YOU don't think the material is poetry or even good poetry for that matter does not make it any less poetic. Look at the definition and argue that it is not poetry.
Many people claim that they are DJ's. Many claim that they are MC's. Many claim they are Party Crews. We're the Transfomr Squad. We are the real MC's. We are the real DJ's. We are the only real Party Crew, that throws the hypist parties. All you fronting niggas out there, don't try us. We're on another level,
you can't even touch us.
Our Mission is to beat the hell out of procrastinating niggas claiming they are the face of hip hop. >>
Son, that was as close to the definition of wack as I have seen in a looooooonnng time! Thanks for making my day!
Haha it's all good KidViciou$, as long as you realize that it's wack . Yes Mos Def is an intellect and poet. Why do you think I picked this username? But still I think you are missing my point. Look at Nas's I Gave You Power. That song is about guns, but I think that is an amazing, powerful, and thoughtful song. It's still poetry. In no way should subject matter deside what is and what isn't poetry. But to each his own...
Okay, okay. That first post was a poem, you're right. But to say that Tupac is a poet, in the high-falutin, artsy-fartsy, puff out your chest and look down your nose at Jay-Z way that KidVicious meant is, well... a stretch. IMO, of course
If you're going to get all pedantic on me, then yeah, I suppose because Tupac wrote poems he is a poet. I just don't think he's a very good one
Main Entry: po·et
Pronunciation: 'pO-&t, -it also 'po(-)it
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French poete, from Latin poeta, from Greek poiEtEs maker, poet, from poiein to make; akin to Sanskrit cinoti he gathers, heaps up
Date: 14th century
1 : one who writes poetry : a maker of verses
2 : one (as a creative artist) of great imaginative and expressive capabilities and special sensitivity to the medium
According to that, some could see Tupac as a poet, while others don't. I'm not sure, but I still think he definately composed poetry. Though it's clearly not very hard, just take a look at ForeverSilky's exquisite example!
Most of those who don't follow rap probably base their view of Tupac Shakur on his "All Eyez On Me" offering. Personally, I think that his previous album, "Me Against The World", is a better example of how talented he really was. You guys can argue all you want about whether or not he was a poet... all I know is that you should actually listen to the music before passing judgement.