Actually food, as a percentage of income has never been cheaper.
Certain food is but that wasn't really my point, I was speaking purely about how its price was manipulated by the government.
Actually food, as a percentage of income has never been cheaper.
Well wages are low in china, but they are more than 8 cents an hour now. And lets not also forget the overhead of getting stuff from china. Transport cost for tubing(mostly air) has got to be fairly expensive. And wages in china and india are rising fairly quickly.
I did not say we should have no regulation, but I have little doubt that many industries face more than a small amount of over-regulation. Just look at the tax code for corporations, it is excessively complicated. Lets find the right balance between safety and cost. Lets create an environment that is business can thrive in, even when faced with cheap over seas labor. Or we can just keep what we are doing....
On outsourcing in general: Americans of all education levels will have their wages driven down. On the other hand, goods and services will be cheaper or stagnant. It won't stop until the rest of the world is as rich or poor as we are. It's too late to do anything about it now.
Do you really think that cutting our regulations and business taxes will allow us to compete with $0.08 per hour from China? Do you think that a person making $0.08 per hour in China would be able to buy "less, same or more" stuff than someone making $0.08 per hour in US? I guess it's fair trade when the currency is totally manipulated to be extremely cost effective (i.e. cheap) to make stuff in the homeland and export it?
Things would be different in that we would have the same standard of living we had 40 years ago.If the developed (similar labor laws and safety laws), democratic countries had limited free trade to among themselves, things might be different now.
Wages were, as of 1.5 years ago, $0.08 per hour for our plants in China. Tubing is shipped via SHIP in bulk. Even if they have doubled, $0.16 per hour doesn't make your argument much better. Again, do you think $0.16 or $0.24 or higher is equivalent to the SAME amount here?
I agree that our tax code could be streamlined but with that said, we have the 2nd lowest BURDEN in the industrialized world.
As for safety, I don't compromise much on that one. I've been in those factories and have seen first hand what removing safety devices cause. Mexico has very little regulation but of course, they have 10X accidents that a US plant has. Was so bad that we adopted US safety rules above and beyond what US plants had because of the severe number of accidents that were there (i.e. forced light curtains on EVERY piece of equipment instead of simply installing cheaper, two hand anti-tie down modules to run the equipment).
People do dumb stuff all the time. There is a reason that it's called "idiot proofing" a machine. Sometimes, the machine is not running in that it's broke but still "live state". Make a sensor and boom, off goes the hand (or finger). A pneumatic cylinder that is stuck and the operator doesn't know this? He/she reaches in and removes a broken clip or assembly piece and the cylinder now is free to jump forward. Remove the energy by a safety device and the issue is now removed. How much is your hand worth? Is it worth the $950 that it costs to make the machine safe or not? Of course, as long as it's saving money and giving you cheap stuff and as long as you keep your job, doesn't matter much.
Personally, I don't have time to debate this more at the moment and it doesn't matter much anyway, neither side is flexible and changes their views much. I have grass to mow and have not offshored it yet...but am looking for a cheaper way to do it as I currently type this. Maybe I can get the guards removed from the mowers so that we can offer cheaper mowers in the US. Who needs expensive guards anyway.
Just saw the new ad of PizzaHut on TV and that got me thinking. I remember 15 years ago their large supreme pizzas cost around 18 bucks (plus tax) and now they are selling them for $10. There were $1 items on McDonald's menu then and they are still here after all this time. Many many other household items of all kinds are barely more expensive now than they were 15-20 years ago. All that sounds great until you figure out their quality all have taken a big dive over those years.
Products nowadays are built as cheaply as possible that most of them fall apart after using them a couple of times. Food, especially fast food are so bad in quality that it's almost a gamble every time you eat them.
Even companies whose names we used to associate with quality products had to adjust their quality for the worse in order to stay competitive. It's like you have to go out of your way to different specialty shops to get better-quality products and I simply do not have enough time to do that.
I remember when I was growing up that the "made in USA" stamp on a product meant it works and it's durable. Now I can barely find anything around my house with that same stamp any more and it's not like I go out of my way to avoid it.
So not only will our lower educated jobs (manufacturing, etc) be offshored, so will our technology jobs (engineers, scientists) will be offshored (or replaced by cheap labor). My company recently hired a new engineer with a Masters Degree and is paying him $17 per hour with no benefits. He is very happy with the pay vs what he would have received in his native Taiwan. Said that he makes enough to live on and gets to travel around and see the world.
China to USA: All your jobs are belong to us.
Yep. Even professions like surgeons are being offshored. It was touted that you can have heart surgery in India for $6,000 (including flights to and from) vs $150,000 that it costs here. Was touted to be as good (clean, professional, etc) but I'm not sure about that. (Steve Forbes was the one touting this by the way). I know that there are people in the US going to dentists in Mexico because the work is as good (from their experience) and it's 20% of the cost (and that is with no insurance coverage in Mexico vs insurance covered in US).
Can't compete with wages (partially a currency issue) like those.
The Chinese bogy man is slowly going to go away over the next few years. Wages are raising and they are actually running out of labor.
Also, as their wages rise the Chinese people will buy more stuff and this will boost the entire world economy and hopefully improve our trade imbalance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/business/global/08wages.html
Things would be different in that we would have the same standard of living we had 40 years ago.
The main reason for our huge jump in life style over the past few decades has been the ability to buy cheap items that are produced in low cost environments. Take away access to that cheap labor and the cost of everything rises which leads to us being able to buy less stuff.
Instead of a TV and DVD in every room of the house we go back to the days where there is on TV in the house and maybe if you are lucky a small TV in your parents room.
Lower costs generally mean more supply. It also makes it much easier for someone else to make a competing product because it doesn't require as much capital to enter the market.
$20 DVD players are a perfect example. This is especially true when costs are cut to the limit, the only way to increase profits at that point is to increase market share. In most industries that means lowering price in order to increase volume.
Looking at the company is basically meaningless since GM operates in every country and has share holders in every country. Look at where the individual product is made. GM made in Mexico is bad. GM made in USA is good.
I don't understand why people like Charrison and IndyFan stay here in the U.S. They are so enamored with how well China and India are doing why don't they go there where they love?
IndyColtsFan said:I find it humorous that the executive ranks never consider outsourcing their own jobs. Talk about cost savings -- you'd get a guy in India doing their jobs equally as well for 10% of their bloated pay.
IndyColtsFan said:Enough is enough. I really believe that we need to tax the crap out of companies that do stuff like this.
IndyColtsFan said:The erosion of our manufacturing base is killing our country.
Well there goes the civil conversation.
But there comes a time when people need to wake up and stop with the mindset that "Well it sucks that their job has been outsourced, but it makes things cheaper for me and after all, I still have my job!" As individuals, we're not looking at the bigger picture here. We NEED jobs to stay in America, and we NEED the middle class to grow. That's why I will always buy American cars. Sure, you can say "Well they aren't really totally 'American' anymore!", but what else can I do? I'd rather give my money to Ford or GM than Toyota or Honda.
The Chinese bogy man is slowly going to go away over the next few years. Wages are raising and they are actually running out of labor.
Also, as their wages rise the Chinese people will buy more stuff and this will boost the entire world economy and hopefully improve our trade imbalance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/business/global/08wages.html
It was a good ride while it lasted. Now everyone is up in arms because other countries want a piece of what we have, but who can blame them? Will you take an 80% paycut to do your job? If not, you're ceding it to someone who will do it for 20% of your pay. Distance and geographic location don't matter much any more. The only way you'll keep your current pay is if you work for the government (in which case you'll get a raise) or if you are truly irreplaceable.
What I want to know is what will happen to us 20 years down the road once China, India, etc, get to where we were 10-15 years ago? I'm so nervous about how half of our population (rough personal guess) are not educated to the level to be competitive with the rest of the world. Seems like a huge portion of our population are riding on the economic success of a shrinking portion of their countrymen.
Well there goes the civil conversation.