"There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas"

[emperus]

I just discovered some respect for Charles Schumer. I had no idea he fell on Israel's side in this mess.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/15/there-is-no-moral-equivalency-between-israel-and-hamas/

EXCERPT:

Btw, I think all US congressmen/women should give up all citizenship to any other country.

 

[emperus]

The first projectile hit the sea wall of Gaza City's little harbour just after four o'clock. As the smoke from the explosion thinned, four figures could be seen running, ragged silhouettes, legs pumping furiously along the wall. Even from a distance of 200 metres, it was obvious that three of them were children.

Jumping off the harbour wall, they turned on to the beach, attempting to cross the short distance to the safety of the Al-Deira hotel, base for many of the journalists covering the Gaza conflict.

They waved and shouted at the watching journalists as they passed a little collection of brightly coloured beach tents, used by bathers in peacetime.

It was there that the second shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: "They are only children."

In the space of 40 seconds, four boys who had been playing hide and seek among fishermen's shacks on the wall were dead. They were aged between seven and 11; two were named Mohammad, one Zakaria and the youngest Ahed. All were members of the extended Bakr family.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account

Tell me how this is justified.

 

[marincounty]

So winning wars equates to killing more civilians than the other side? What does the civilian casualty number have to do with winning a war? Also how many "terrorists" have been killed versus "civilians"?

I just find it odd people don't try to see things from the other perspective. You have an occupying force that is militarily superior by 10 folds and funded by other wealthy countries, who is systematically taking your land and forcing you and your people into abject poverty. What would you do in that situation to stop it? What resources do you have to even begin to oppose the occupation?

Unless you're arguing might makes right. I don't see how Israel is right in this situation.

Well, it's worked for the U.S. (might makes right).
Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years, I'm not going to fault them for building up a strong defense.

 

[Remobz]

Well, it's worked for the U.S. (might makes right).
Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years, I'm not going to fault them for building up a strong defense.

Honestly, Muslims have been so war like these days and have killed many of their own fellow Muslims that I find myself siding with the Jews in many ways now. Not 100 percent but I can't blame Israel for defending itself. Some radical Muslims there would nuke Israel and the Western world if they had a chance. Screw them!

 

[PingviN]

Tell me how this is justified.

I don't think anyone will claim that the death of four boys were justified. I doubt that the Israeli government or IDF do either.

 

[emperus]

I don't think anyone will claim that the death of four boys were justified. I doubt that the Israeli government or IDF do either.

But it did happen.

A small metal shack with no electricity or running water on a jetty in the blazing seaside sun does not seem like the kind of place frequented by Hamas militants, the Israel Defense Forces’ intended targets. Children, maybe four feet tall, dressed in summer clothes, running from an explosion, don’t fit the description of Hamas fighters, either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/world/middleeast/through-lens-4-boys-dead-by-gaza-shore.html?_r=0

 

[PingviN]

But it did happen.

It did. Doesn't mean it was intentional. I'm sure it will be investigated, what does Israel have to gain by killing four children?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Tell me how this is justified.

Wait a second here. They were playing hide and seek amongst fisherman shacks? Or were they playing football (soccer) on the beach?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...raeli-strike-gaza-kills-four-children-n157301

Something isn't right here. There is either some very shoddy journalism, or possibly even some media propaganda from Hamas involving Israel killing children, which wouldn't surprise me whatsoever. Hamas loves to use the media and their useful idiots as willing pawns to bend the facts.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by emperus
So winning wars equates to killing more civilians than the other side? <-- civilians are collateral damage live with it..especially when Hamas hides behind civilians!

What does the civilian casualty number have to do with winning a war? Also how many "terrorists" have been killed versus "civilians"? <-- those issues do not matter...so sorry!! You are indirectly claiming that it is possible to just go after the terrorists and have no civilian casualties -- how when the enemy uses civilian homes and schools to launch rockets...to store rockets...to hide it...
You have an occupying force that is militarily superior by 10 folds and funded by other wealthy countries, who is systematically taking your land and forcing you and your people into abject poverty. What would you do in that situation to stop it? What resources do you have to even begin to oppose the occupation? <<-- that's not the truth and you know it.....in fact I don`t think you really know a whole lot about what`s happening...

Unless you're arguing might makes right. I don't see how Israel is right in this situation.

Of course you don`t see how Israel is right.
Your one of these peeps who think that the children trump anything else.
You live in an alternate reality if you believe that war involves no civilian casualties.
Your also live again in an alternate reality if you were not aware that Hamas hides behind civilians, especially children. They fire their rockets not all but some from civilian homes and they have always had a bad habit of using hospitals and schools to hide it.

Then to top that off you make a statement that you yourself have not answered....
just find it odd people don't try to see things from the other perspective.

If you put yourself in Israels shoes the real bottom line is Israel just wants to be left alone....

 

[Abwx]

It did. Doesn't mean it was intentional. I'm sure it will be investigated, what does Israel have to gain by killing four children?

They gain more palestinians killed, wich is the purpose of their agression.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Maybe I need to expound on my previous post?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account

In the space of 40 seconds, four boys who had been playing hide and seek among fishermen's shacks on the wall were dead. They were aged between seven and 11; two were named Mohammad, one Zakaria and the youngest Ahed. All were members of the extended Bakr family.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...raeli-strike-gaza-kills-four-children-n157301

The attack - and its heartrending aftermath – was witnessed by NBC News. Moments earlier, the boys were playing soccer with journalists on the beach.

The four victims were named as Ahed Atef Bakr and Zakaria Ahed Bakr, both 10 years old, Mohamed Ramez Bakr, 11, and Ismael Mohamed Bakr, 9.

So there were two supposed eyewitness accounts of this alleged attack. One claims they were playing soccer with journalists. The other claims they were playing hide and seek.

One of them must be wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if both were wrong. I've read other alleged "first hand accounts" of this same attack that don't sound anything like the other two either.

I smell a rat. Actually, I smell more than a rat.

 

[Abwx]

So there were two supposed eyewitness accounts of this alleged attack. One claims they were playing soccer with journalists. The other claims they were playing hide and seek.

One of them must be wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if both were wrong. I've read other alleged "first hand accounts" of this same attack that don't sound anything like the other two either.

I smell a rat. Actually, I smell more than a rat.

And i smell bad faith , they were isolated and running in the beach when killed and deliberatly targeted by the boats,
check the video :

http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient...s-les-yeux-des-journalistes_4458418_3218.html

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

And i smell bad faith , they were isolated and running in the beach when killed and deliberatly targeted by the boats,
check the video :

http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient...s-les-yeux-des-journalistes_4458418_3218.html

You don't explain in any way the difference between the alleged eyewitness accounts. Nor do the cuts of that video show anything contiguous or definitive. How about they show the entire video so it can be shown for sure that those cuts actually belong together or are even related?

 

[Abwx]

You don't explain in any way the difference between the alleged eyewitness accounts. Nor do the cuts of that video show anything contiguous or definitive. How about they show the entire video so it can be shown for sure that those cuts actually belong together or are even related?

You have the video , do you need a die hard zionist to comment it.??.

Besides this place is just a few dozen meters from hotels that harbour hundreds of journalists...

4 crews of journalists witnessed the event, use google translate or the links, it is posted on the french site :

Ces derniers ont rapidement témoigné du drame. Jonathan Miller, de la chaîne britannique Channel 4, a décrit le déroulement des faits à l'antenne et sur son compte Twitter. Le correspondant du Guardian, Peter Beaumont, celui de NBC News, Ayman Mohyeldin, et un photographe du New York Times, Tyler Hicks, ont fait de même.

They explain it in all ways but i guess that you are not interested in explanations that show the nazis israeli under their true face , so keep burying your hand in the sand.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You have the video , do you need a die hard zionist to comment it.??.

Besides this place is just a few dozen meters from hotels that harbour hundreds of journalists...

4 crews of journalists witnessed the event, use google translate or the links, it is posted on the french site :

Yeah, journalists allegedly witnessed the event and gave different accounts of it. So please explain how 4 crews can witness the same thing and can't provide the same account.

Are you somehow not comprehending what I am asking?

 

[Abwx]

Yeah, journalists allegedly witnessed the event and gave different accounts of it. So please explain how 4 crews can witness the same thing and can't provide the same account.

Are you somehow not comprehending what I am asking?

They all say the same thing according to the french paper, here the text, use google translate :

Tous expliquent que le groupe d'enfants se trouvait sur cette plage de pêcheurs pour jouer au football, confirmant des photos prises par une agence de presse locale, Media24. Un premier missile israélien a d'abord touché, peu après 16 heures (14 heures à Paris), la digue du port de pêche de Gaza. Les images de TF1 montrent des navires de guerre israéliens croisant au large quelques instants plus tôt.

L'un des enfants meurt sur le coup de cette première frappe, explique le New York Times. Alors que les autres garçons se mettent à courir, une deuxième frappe atteint le groupe, et en tue trois autres. Les survivants, blessés, vont chercher de l'aide, alors que des Palestiniens adultes partent à la recherche des victimes.

The israeli boat striked them twice, it is explicitly written, the first died from the first strike.
While the three remaining were running on the beach, and this is clearly visible on the video, the israeli criminals targeted them with a second round.

Actually your problem is an incredible bias, and that s the reason you do not "comprehend", there s no worse blind that the one that refuse to open his eyes.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

They all say the same thing according to the french paper, here the text, use google translate :
[/I]


The israeli boat striked them twice, it is explicitly written, the first died from the first strike, while the three remaining were running on the beach, and this is clearly visible on the video, the israeli criminals targeted them with a second round.

Actually your problem is an incredible bias, and that s the reason you do not "comprehend", there s no worse blind that the one that refuse to open his eyes.

lol. You are the one ranting about "die hard Zionists" and "nazis." Yet I'm the one with the bias?

You need to check yourself, homeboy.

Suck up that Hamas propaganda. Take a big swig.

 

[Abwx]

lol. You are the one ranting about "die hard Zionists" and "nazis." Yet I'm the one with the bias?

You need to check yourself, homeboy.

Suck up that Hamas propaganda. Take a big swig.

Yes, the NY Times journalist is a hamas member, no doubt.

If there was no video avalaible and that the israelis nazi army would had said that the teens were with a rocket launcher you would had asked for no explanation at all and took the zionists lies at face value, like you do the rest of the time.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Yes, the NY Times journalist is a hamas member, no doubt.

If there was no video avalaible and that the israelis nazi army would had said that the teens were with a rocket launcher you would had asked for no explanation at all and took the zionists lies at face value, like you do the rest of the time.

Nuff said. You demonstrated your completely one-sided bias so it really doesn't matter what you say on the matter since your opinion is poisoned. Because of that, I don't care about your opinion and you are going on ignore due to that bias.

Hopefully, someone with a more level-headed viewpoint can comment. It obviously won't be you and never would be you because you can only see one blinkered side of the issue.

Welcome to ignore. I don't do that lightly. In fact, you are now the only one. Congrats.

 

[Abwx]

Nuff said. You demonstrated your completely one-sided bias so it really doesn't matter what you say on the matter since your opinion is poisoned. Because of that, I don't care about your opinion and you are going on ignore due to that bias.

Hopefully, someone with a more level-headed viewpoint can comment. It obviously won't be you and never would be you because you can only see one blinkered side of the issue.

Welcome to ignore. I don't do that lightly. In fact, you are now that only one. Congrats.

Lol , ignore list in this case is just aknowledgment of what i already posted about you , that is, you prefer to bury your head in the sand...:biggrin:

Personaly i have none on ignore list , not even people a la Nebor who have publicly rejoyced for thoses killings...

 

[PingviN]

They gain more palestinians killed, wich is the purpose of their agression.

If that were remotely true there would be a lot more casualties. A lot.

 

[Abwx]

If that were remotely true there would be a lot more casualties. A lot.

IF that wasnt true they would had not engaged in thoses killings, it s not like
200+ killed is a little number given Gaza s total population, besides, what would be your opinion if 50 israelis were randomly killed by the palestinians?

Oh, of course, it would be crimes, because you count israelis as real human while you think that palestinians are untermenschen and you can do nothing about it because it is entrenched in your secret garden.

Changing your position would imply that you supported criminals all this time, so rather than questionning yourself you prefer to go further and further in your denials, it is called narcissism in disguise.

But now, tell me, your prime minister in the 80s, Olof Palme, was a staunch supporter of the palestinians, so you think that you are more intelligent than him, that , as a prime minister, he did know nothing about the conflict roots and that his stances were only due to emotion..?..

Oh, he was surely antisemitic, that was surely his motivation, his real one...

 

[Abwx]

UN official: Israeli occupation killed 1,300 Palestinian children since 2000

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/2300-un-official-israeli-occupation-killed-1300-palestinian-children-since-2000%29

One every 3 days on average....so it s a criminal zionists habit, numbers dont lie, there s really no moral equivalence between thoses die hard criminals and the palestinians, that s for sure.

 

[Harabec]

What you're saying...is that Hamas is just minding their own business, playing World of Warcraft (Diablo 2 pre-2005) while us EVIL ZIONIST NAZIS bombard them for no reason?

 

[Abwx]

What you're saying...is that Hamas is just minding their own business, playing World of Warcraft (Diablo 2 pre-2005) while us EVIL ZIONIST NAZIS bombard them for no reason?

You bombard them because they refuse to give up their legitimate rights (that are recognized by the UNO resolutions).

Hamas, like Fatah before it accepted to be an israeli sub contractor, is a resistance movement, that they use religion as a banner wont change this fact, neither will it change the fact that you have usurped their rights, that is, stolen private properties by the truck loads , heck , a lot of israelis in jerusalem are living on thoses stolen houses (and lands) whose property titles are detained by ousted palestinians and wich were confiscated by the zionists so called governements in breach of all international laws and said UNO resolutions.

Here all the UNO resolutions violated by this rogue state :

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...olations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/

And the list will grow given that criminals always try to cancel a crime by perpetrating another crime.