"There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas"

[Abwx]

So if Israel states "We've done wrong to Palestinians," them it's OK for Israel to continue to keep the land they occupy, just like you apparently think it's OK for America to continue to occupy Native American land?

Either they settle about on the 1967 borders or they ll give them full rights in a single state but then israel wants to be a jewish state according to their own words, yet zionists living in western countries, and who hold an isreali passport for most of them, while being die hard supporters of this notion are completely against said western countries deciding to be officialy christian states within their constitutions...

I told you, living in denial will forcibly get you in some kind of Kafkaian issue...

 

[TechBoyJK]

Not sure how and what kind of respect Israel expected from a group of people they took land from,...

And, please leave the "UN recognizes Israel!" out of any replies. Because the UN gets shitted on constantly by Israel and it's defacto veto puppet the USA. You can't run to the UN each time Israel's existence is questioned and then dismiss the UN when they admonish Israel's heavy handed responses.

Israel doesn't belong there - period. I am not looking to over turn or kick out anyone, from anywhere. But, they are there. And will refuse to leave, under any circumstances.

A few decades from now, there won't be anything Palestinian. Israel will take over the remaining areas and whatever was Palestine, will be a bookmark/page in Israel's growth.

I don't think there are any benefits to talks, discussions, concessions, diplomacy, sanctions, envoys, etc. This is nothing more than a group of pissed off people (the Palestinians), lashing out and getting smeared across the pavement (by the Israelis). And, when people decry this, it's met with; "Well, they shouldn't have been pissed off,..".

So, it is just a matter of time before we stop hearing about the Palestinians, because they won't be around any longer - of course because of their own fault; they asked for it.

There has never been a Palestinian State. You can't take land from someone who doesn't own it to begin with.

 

[OutHouse]

 

[Mani]

Unless you are a fundamentalist Christian or have Israeli loyalties like Schumer, there is absolutely zero reason to support Israel. Sure, they killed 200 civilian Palestinians, but hey, they dropped flyers beforehand so it's kosher.

 

[brandonb]

Unless you are a fundamentalist Christian or have Israeli loyalties like Schumer, there is absolutely zero reason to support Israel. Sure, they killed 200 civilian Palestinians, but hey, they dropped flyers beforehand so it's kosher.

Right. It also helps that these civilians have somewhere to go. /sarcasm. There's huge walls blocking any escape. It's like dropping dynamite into a koi pond.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=great wall of israel

 

[Harabec]

Blocking escape to Israel, yes.
If you were in a were in a war with Mexico you would let mexicans just flow into the US? You think borders and walls are just for show?

 

[CitizenKain]

Blocking escape to Israel, yes.
If you were in a were in a war with Mexico you would let mexicans just flow into the US? You think borders and walls are just for show?

I guess they could be driven in the ocean and drowned.

 

[brandonb]

Blocking escape to Israel, yes.
If you were in a were in a war with Mexico you would let mexicans just flow into the US? You think borders and walls are just for show?

According to Wikipedia, only 13% of the Great Wall of Israel is actually within Israel occupied areas. The rest is inside Palestinian territory. That would be like the USA building a wall mostly in Mexico. And you acknowledge you are once again at war with the Palestinians? I thought Palestinians were members of Israel (except those who can't get citizenship, which would include nearly all of them). If I look at a map of Israel, it usually includes the Palestinian areas. So is this a civil war?

 

[PingviN]

There isn't. One is focused on minimizing civilian casualties. The other is focused on maximizing civilian casualties.

 

[cabri]

Right. It also helps that these civilians have somewhere to go. /sarcasm. There's huge walls blocking any escape. It's like dropping dynamite into a koi pond.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=great wall of israel

That wall also has nothing to go with Gaza. It was built to protect from attacks originating from the West Bank.
Look at a map of Gaza. While dense in some areas, it is not a US style government housing complex.
Israel is not attacking a complete area; a block or two at a time is what is has been targeted. those targets are considered to be of military value to Hamas in one form or another. There are other areas, both residential and open where people can go to.

 

[emperus]

There isn't. One is focused on minimizing civilian casualties. The other is focused on maximizing civilian casualties.

So in this last episode, what were the causalities on both sides?

 

[PingviN]

So in this last episode, what were the causalities on both sides?

Irrelevant, sad as it is. The fact that Hamas are incapable of aiming their rockets and the fact that Israel's Iron Dome works very well does not make Hamas intentions different. What would you expect Israel to do? Nothing? Withdraw their positions to appease terrorists? Ain't gonna happen.

What they do is tell the civilians of Gaza where they will bomb. They tell them to stay away from Hamas leaders. To stay away from missile launch sites and weapon storage sites. The weapons used are highly accurate, the blast radius is fairly limited, the targets are not civilians. If Hamas had the same military capacity, do you think they would do the same? No, they would not. They would still target civilians, because they are, have been and always will be, a terrorist organisation that does not recognize Israel as a nation for the Jews.

 

[Abwx]

Irrelevant, sad as it is. The fact that Hamas are incapable of aiming their rockets and the fact that Israel's Iron Dome works very well

Irrelevant you said.??..

Interception rate is barely 30% , so it doesnt work well at all , wich completely destroy your assumptions, that s why i didnt even bother quoting the rest of your post, but i m used to read your never ending propaganda based either on twisted facts or some kind of deep clulessness (i vote for the first option).

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Irrelevant you said.??..

Interception rate is barely 30% , so it doesnt work well at all , wich completely destroy your assumptions, that s why i didnt even bother quoting the rest of your post, but i m used to read your never ending propaganda based either on twisted facts or some kind of deep clulessness (i vote for the first option).

Link?

 

[cabri]

Irrelevant you said.??..

Interception rate is barely 30% , so it doesnt work well at all , wich completely destroy your assumptions, that s why i didnt even bother quoting the rest of your post, but i m used to read your never ending propaganda based either on twisted facts or some kind of deep clulessness (i vote for the first option).

The interception rate is low because calculations determine that 70% are not going to be a threat.

What counts is those rockets that actually make to to the target after an intercept has been attempted. What is that number?

Similar to the batting average - walks do not count either way

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The interception rate is low because calculations determine that 70% are not going to be a threat.

What counts is those rockets that actually make to to the target after an intercept has been attempted. What is that number?

Similar to the batting average - walks do not count either way

Shush...this is just another example of your "twisted facts" or "some kind of deep clulessness"! :biggrin:

EDIT: Interception rate appears to be around 87%.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/07/economist-explains-12

 

[BUnit1701]

There is no state called Seminolia either, but the group of people called Seminoles still exist.

Maybe so, but they have been called that for hundreds of years. There were no 'Palistinians' until the Arab community at large decided it was a good idea to try and convince the world this was a separate ethnic group. They aren't.

"Palestine is a name coined by the Romans around 135 CE from the name of a seagoing Aegean people who settled on the coast of Canaan in antiquity – the Philistines.
​

The name was chosen to replace Judea, as a sign that Jewish sovereignty had been eradicated following the Jewish Revolts against Rome.
In the course of time, the Latin name Philistia was further bastardized into Palistina or Palestine.http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=5240830917291851559&postID=5145488243484835692 During the next 2,000 years Palestine was never an independent state belonging to any people, nor did a Palestinian people distinct from other Arabs appear during 1,300 years of Muslim hegemony in Palestine under Arab and Ottoman rule.
​

During that rule, local Arabs were actually considered part of, and subject to, the authority of Greater Syria ( Suriyya al-Kubra). Archeologists explain that the Philistines were a Mediterranean people who settled along the coast of Canaan in 1100 BCE. They have no connection to the Arab nation, a desert people who emerged from the Arabian Peninsula.
​

Tagging the Arabs in Palestine as Palestinian was a mission fabricated by Arabs to attempt to assert the Arab right to the Jewish holy lands at the time when Jewish statehood was becoming a reality – but history shows that Arabs were never identified as Palestinians:

This is substantiated in countless official British Mandate-vintage documents that speak of the Jews and the Arabs of Palestine – not Jews and Palestinians."
​

 

[hal2kilo]

I just discovered some respect for Charles Schumer. I had no idea he fell on Israel's side in this mess.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/15/there-is-no-moral-equivalency-between-israel-and-hamas/

EXCERPT:

Posting on political forum and does not know Sen. Schumer would be pro Israel. There's P & N in a nutshell for you.

Jeez Loueeze

 

[Abwx]

The interception rate is low because calculations determine that 70% are not going to be a threat.

Lol, and you believe this.?.

They are deliberatly lying to hide the inneficency of their multi billions system, how do they know that they re not a threat given that the range of thoses rockets have considerable variation even when they use the same ones.?.

Take the number posted by docsavage , make a simple arithmetic operation with the number you provided and you ll get the hit rate , that is , 30 x 0.87 = 26.1% , that is lower than the 30% figure i posted.

Dr. Theodore Postol, a professor at MIT, claimed in his Haaretz article on March 31 that contrary to the Defense Ministry claim that the Iron Dome has succeeded in intercepting more than 80 percent of rockets launched into Israeli population centers during November’s Pillar of Defense operation, the actual proportion never exceeded 10 percent.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Is-the-Iron-Dome-effective-308711

 

[Atreus21]

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Is-the-Iron-Dome-effective-308711

LOL. And you believe this?

 

[Atreus21]

Netanyahu nailed it. "Here’s the difference between us. We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”

 

[fskimospy]

Netanyahu nailed it. "Here’s the difference between us. We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”

Netanyahu is a total dirtbag. He is personally one of the largest contributors to the continuing instability. Israel badly needs to toss that guy out and get someone who is actually interested in solving the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

For example in this case, Netanyahu knew almost right away that the three individuals who were kidnapped were dead. He decided to conduct a "search" for them anyway, which mostly just involved kicking in doors all over Gaza. He also knew that the kidnappers didn't act on orders from Hamas, but decided to engage in collective punishment anyway.

The kidnapping and murder of those poor people was a heinous crime. Sadly, the response of terrorizing and attacking people who had nothing to do with it is also a heinous crime. It's frankly disgusting to me that someone who is as morally bankrupt as Netanyahu would attempt to talk about how morally superior Israel's actions in this situation are.

 

[Atreus21]

Netanyahu is a total dirtbag. He is personally one of the largest contributors to the continuing instability. Israel badly needs to toss that guy out and get someone who is actually interested in solving the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

For example in this case, Netanyahu knew almost right away that the three individuals who were kidnapped were dead. He decided to conduct a "search" for them anyway, which mostly just involved kicking in doors all over Gaza. He also knew that the kidnappers didn't act on orders from Hamas, but decided to engage in collective punishment anyway.

Link. And what do you mean by collective punishment?

"Interested in solving the Israel-Palestinian issue"? You try negotiating with a partner whose stated goal is nothing less than your utter destruction.

 

[fskimospy]

Link. And what do you mean by collective punishment?

http://forward.com/articles/201764/how-politics-and-lies-triggered-an-unintended-war/

And by collective punishment I mean that Israel's security operations immediately started going after people that had nothing to do with the crime committed. Not to mention their longstanding policy of attacking the families of those they deem to be terrorists. (for example, if you are found to be engaging in terrorism against Israel one of the first things they will do is bulldoze your parents' house, even if they have nothing to do with you.)

"Interested in solving the Israel-Palestinian issue"? You try negotiating with a partner whose stated goal is nothing less than your utter destruction.

This is a fundamental distortion of the Palestinian position that takes the most extreme elements and attributes their views to everyone else. First and foremost, Netanyahu has engaged in aggressive settlement building in occupied territories despite universal worldwide condemnation of those actions as illegal. He is obviously and deliberately attempting to render a separate Palestinian state nonviable.

We should all be able to agree that while the overall conflict is the responsibility of both sides, Netanyahu is helping no one. The sooner he is gone the better for everyone.

 

[Atreus21]

http://forward.com/articles/201764/how-politics-and-lies-triggered-an-unintended-war/

I wish we could corroborate this elsewhere. That's one hell of an allegation. The only other source I find for it is electronicintifada.net, which hardly seems credible.

This is a fundamental distortion of the Palestinian position that takes the most extreme elements and attributes their views to everyone else.

Hamas' charter is pretty clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Statements_about_Israel

The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[2] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.[3][4]
...
The preamble states: ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″

First and foremost, Netanyahu has engaged in aggressive settlement building in occupied territories despite universal worldwide condemnation of those actions as illegal. He is obviously and deliberately attempting to render a separate Palestinian state nonviable.

We should all be able to agree that while the overall conflict is the responsibility of both sides, Netanyahu is helping no one. The sooner he is gone the better for everyone.

Palestine has been offered statehood on three separate occasions (2008. 2000, and 1947), and has turned it down each time.