The Squat Thread - Push to 1,000,000 pounds

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SlitheryDee

135x5, 155x5, 165x5, 175x5, 185x5, 195x5, 205x5, 225x5, 235x5, 185x10 = 10225

I was still sore from my last leg workout so I bumped the weight up in small increments. It felt better and better with each set so I ended up doing a lot of sets, but I decided not to push it too heavy. In just 1 month (since starting contributing to this thread) my heaviest squat has gone up 90lbs! It's technically newbie's progress, since my legs never got any work to amount to anything before last month, but I'm still pretty stoked about it.

486,722
 
K

Kipper

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2000
7,366
0
0
Form checks go in this thread...? At any rate, any and all constructive criticism appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVx51w_zwho

Please keep in mind one thing: I've had a lower back issue for nearly fourteen years now which has really kept me from squatting particularly heavy weight. I believe this makes me have a slight forward lean as I bottom out, so I've tried to compensate by focusing on keeping my weight back on my heels and my chest straight up.

Any suggestions on how to strengthen what is the weakest part (and unfortunately, one of the most important parts) appreciated. I'm aware that deadlifts are the suggested method, but this same back issue prevents me from doing full deadlifts without a tingling sensation in my back. I currently do a combination of Romanian DL, rack pulls, good mornings and hyperextensions to target the back, but I have essentially plateaued for a number of years as far as the squat is concerned.

TIA.
 
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brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
Originally posted by: Kipper
Form checks go in this thread...? At any rate, any and all constructive criticism appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVx51w_zwho

Please keep in mind one thing: I've had a lower back issue for nearly fourteen years now which has really kept me from squatting particularly heavy weight. I believe this makes me have a slight forward lean as I bottom out, so I've tried to compensate by focusing on keeping my weight back on my heels and my chest straight up.

Any suggestions on how to strengthen what is the weakest part (and unfortunately, one of the most important parts) appreciated. I'm aware that deadlifts are the suggested method, but this same back issue prevents me from doing full deadlifts without a tingling sensation in my back. I currently do a combination of Romanian DL, rack pulls, good mornings and hyperextensions to target the back, but I have essentially plateaued for a number of years as far as the squat is concerned.

TIA.
Click to expand...

Your squat doesn't look too bad to me. Good depth, staying on the heels and even some evidence of hip drive. Some comments:

* Your back seems like it might be rounding, but its tough to tell from the angle. If it is, work on keeping it locked in extension, as this is not only safer, but also maintains tension in your hamstrings, giving you a much nicer bounce and hip drive out of the hole. A good way to practice this is to do some supermans on the ground, memorize the feeling, and then immediately go do some squats with the bar to try to replicate that feeling.

* An essential part of driving out of the hole is utilizing the stretch/bounce reflex of your muscles, in particular, the hamstrings and adductors. To do that, the muscles must be kept under lots of tension. Keeping a tight back arch (as mentioned above) is very helpful, but here are a few other tips: shove your knees out (ie, away from each other) to increase tension in the adductors; don't let your knees slide too far forward or your hamstrings will slacken - try to use TUBOW ("Terribly Useful Block of Wood") or wall squats to develop this; practice the timing - when you get the bounce correctly, it'll literally shoot you out of the bottom of the squat and feel markedly different.

* I'm seeing some hip drive, which is good, but you might be able to get more with the proper mental cue: come out of the hole by consciously trying to drive your ass straight up. This video should explain what I mean.

* Are you doing high bar or low bar squats? It's hard to see in the video but looks like it might be high bar. Switching to low bar may help: it actually requires more forward lean, but reduces the length of the lever arm to the lower back. Alternatively, try front squats, which use a very upright pose and put still less pressure on the lower back.

* Finally, what have you tried to break through the plateau? Deloads? Changed rep schemes? Different routines? Accessory exercises?
 
K

Kipper

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2000
7,366
0
0
Originally posted by: brikis98
Your squat doesn't look too bad to me. Good depth, staying on the heels and even some evidence of hip drive. Some comments:

* Your back seems like it might be rounding, but its tough to tell from the angle. If it is, work on keeping it locked in extension, as this is not only safer, but also maintains tension in your hamstrings, giving you a much nicer bounce and hip drive out of the hole. A good way to practice this is to do some supermans on the ground, memorize the feeling, and then immediately go do some squats with the bar to try to replicate that feeling.

* An essential part of driving out of the hole is utilizing the stretch/bounce reflex of your muscles, in particular, the hamstrings and adductors. To do that, the muscles must be kept under lots of tension. Keeping a tight back arch (as mentioned above) is very helpful, but here are a few other tips: shove your knees out (ie, away from each other) to increase tension in the adductors; don't let your knees slide too far forward or your hamstrings will slacken - try to use TUBOW ("Terribly Useful Block of Wood") or wall squats to develop this; practice the timing - when you get the bounce correctly, it'll literally shoot you out of the bottom of the squat and feel markedly different.

* I'm seeing some hip drive, which is good, but you might be able to get more with the proper mental cue: come out of the hole by consciously trying to drive your ass straight up. This video should explain what I mean.

* Are you doing high bar or low bar squats? It's hard to see in the video but looks like it might be high bar. Switching to low bar may help: it actually requires more forward lean, but reduces the length of the lever arm to the lower back. Alternatively, try front squats, which use a very upright pose and put still less pressure on the lower back.

* Finally, what have you tried to break through the plateau? Deloads? Changed rep schemes? Different routines? Accessory exercises?
Click to expand...

Apologies in advance for this somewhat thread hijack, and thanks for the reply.

My buddy (who took the video) said *if* my back is rounding, it is literally for an instant, as I bottom out and head back up. Mechanically, it really seems unavoidable as I go past parallel. I've videoed myself squatting using a broomstick, and as I dip below parallel I've found it is virtually impossible to maintain the same clearly concave arch that I have when above parallel. I fezel that if it was rounding, I'd definitely feel it - and I have been squatting long enough to know when that is. Maybe I will have to drop the weight some and take a few more videos to see - I find it much harder to maintain the same form with just the weight of a broomstick on my shoulders.

I am doing high bar squats - or something in between. The bar usually sits on that "shelf" right behind my trapezius. I've seen people doing the low bar, and it seemed to me at the time that the shear forces on the lower back would be greater because of the forward lean, as you said. In my thought process, it would then be more difficult to keep my back concave. Maybe I'll give them a try with lower weight and see what happens.

As far as trying to bust through this plateau is concerned, I've tried a ton of stuff: I generally deload for a few weeks to readjust and fine-tune form every six months or so, but that generally doesn't do anything. I've tried just doing a few low-rep sets (5-7), but nothing. I split my routine up to accommodate two legs days, one quadricep-centric, the other hamstring-centric. I've even tried a 20-rep squat routine (which I stopped after my back got very sore), added accessory exercises like lunges, front squats, Romanian deadlifts, and good mornings to strengthen the parts which are weakest (hamstrings and lower back). Nothing has really improved, except that I've been able to go much lower below parallel in the squat (at the cost of dropping the weight). The problem is really in the lower back, where I'll be very sore the following morning if I'm having an off day and a couple of sets go the wrong way.

I will look into your (hip drive/bounce) suggestions. Thanks a lot again.

Edit: Second video, slightly better angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afGcqwCnMvE
 
B

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
Originally posted by: Kipper
I find it much harder to maintain the same form with just the weight of a broomstick on my shoulders.
Click to expand...
Here are some things that help reduce back rounding:

(1) Increase your hip mobility. Stronglifts has great articles on hip mobility and good static stretches (the first 3 are especially useful here). The squat stretch is also extremely useful: just make sure to stay in the bottom position for ~30 sec and keep your back locked in extension the whole time. You can also do them holding on to something (like a door frame or power rack) to get extra deep.

(2) Increase your hamstring flexibility. Your hamstrings pull on your pelvis at the bottom of the squat and if they are too tight, they'll cause the pelvis to roll under, which rounds the back. I'm sure you already know a ton of exercises for this, so start doing them diligently.

(3) Strengthen the lower back and posterior chain. Sounds like you do this already, but if you aren't strong enough to maintain a proper back arch, you may need more. Again, Stronglifts has some great advice, and doing standard back exercises, such as good mornings, deadlifts RDL's, back extensions and glute ham raises will be helpful too.

Also, I'd mention again that pushing your knees out (away from each other) will help here too. This not only helps engage the adductors, but also makes it easier to go deeper without rounding the back.

Originally posted by: Kipper
Maybe I'll give them a try with lower weight and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Try them out, but remember that adjusting to a new squatting position takes more than one workout. Assuming it isn't causing any discomfort, try to give it at least a month and see if it helps.

Originally posted by: Kipper
Edit: Second video, slightly better angle.
Click to expand...
Huh?
 
S

SlitheryDee

Front Squat

115x10, 125x10, 135x10, 145x10, 145x10, 145x10 = 8100

Ack. Front squats are harder than back squats.

510,697

 
SociallyChallenged

SociallyChallenged

Elite
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
32
81
Originally posted by: Kipper
Form checks go in this thread...? At any rate, any and all constructive criticism appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVx51w_zwho

Please keep in mind one thing: I've had a lower back issue for nearly fourteen years now which has really kept me from squatting particularly heavy weight. I believe this makes me have a slight forward lean as I bottom out, so I've tried to compensate by focusing on keeping my weight back on my heels and my chest straight up.

Any suggestions on how to strengthen what is the weakest part (and unfortunately, one of the most important parts) appreciated. I'm aware that deadlifts are the suggested method, but this same back issue prevents me from doing full deadlifts without a tingling sensation in my back. I currently do a combination of Romanian DL, rack pulls, good mornings and hyperextensions to target the back, but I have essentially plateaued for a number of years as far as the squat is concerned.

TIA.
Click to expand...

On top of what brikis said, it seems to me that you're dropping down into the squat a bit quick - it's not too bad, but controlling that motion would make your squats much safer. Take the steps that brikis mentions and maintain good tightness and go down a bit more slowly and controlled.

Also, low bar actually takes a LOT of the strain off of my low spine. It shortens the lever arm of where the weight is on the spine and therefore puts less torque on the low part of the spine. Try it out with some light weight. I can almost guarantee you that it will make your squat feel better. But overall, nice squat.
 
E

Eric62

Senior member
Apr 17, 2008
528
0
0
I stopped evaluating other people form. To many variables.
Firstly if you compete, then following the rules of your federation is the #1 consideration. Otherwise just squat below parallel, with the least amount of bad pain as possible.
If you have long legs your style will be different then the short legged person. If you have wide hips and thick knees with short legs and torso - your a natural squatting machine. Some one like me would be a fool to try to emulate the genetically gifted.
IMO - if you have long legs, long torso, narrow hips, small knees and ankles - I wouldn't even squat - unless you're a powerlifting junkie in need of a support group to escape the short term ego gratification of the "glory of the big point total". I'm such a person.
Help yourself and don't be like me...
I'm not bitter - just burned out :)
 
SociallyChallenged

SociallyChallenged

Elite
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
32
81
Originally posted by: RESmonkey
Wonder how low ATOT goes on their heavy squats. Something tells me quarter squat.
Click to expand...

Most of us that regularly post in here stress form. I go to parallel or slightly below. I'd be disappointed to hear about people quarter squatting.
 
R

RESmonkey

Diamond Member
May 6, 2007
4,818
2
0
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: RESmonkey
Wonder how low ATOT goes on their heavy squats. Something tells me quarter squat.
Click to expand...

Most of us that regularly post in here stress form. I go to parallel or slightly below. I'd be disappointed to hear about people quarter squatting.
Click to expand...

Good to hear. :) I remember when I first started squatting; wasted a good year in school not knowing any better and squatting poorly just to get heavier weight up.

I need to start getting back into doing them.
 
S

SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: RESmonkey
Wonder how low ATOT goes on their heavy squats. Something tells me quarter squat.
Click to expand...

I'm not up to heavy weights on squats by any means, but all mine are true ass-to-the-grass squats every time. For me, loading up on weight and feeling as though I'm about to lose it halfway down is extremely unpleasant and doesn't feel as though I'm doing anything productive.
 
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