The Pew Pew Thread

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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,509
1,001
126
You're talking in circles here.

Gun sales made by dealers at gun shows are required to undergo background checks per state and federal law, because they are *dealers*.

Private sales, arranged by two individuals who meet at a gun show, are not covered under federal law because it is a private sale.

So either you want universal background checks (federal requirement for private sales), or you're fine with the current system.

The "gun show loophole" is a complete misnomer because a gun show doesn't magically exempt dealers or anyone else from federal background check requirements.

The gun show is merely a convenient avenue for private sales to occur.
Which Im fine with.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
29,293
5,475
126
Which Im fine with.
Hilariously, you could have bolded "I'm fine with the current system" and yet you chose the more obtuse response.

You don't want UBC, that's fine. But christ almighty say so and make an argument for that position.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,509
1,001
126
Hilariously, you could have bolded "I'm fine with the current system" and yet you chose the more obtuse response.

You don't want UBC, that's fine. But christ almighty say so and make an argument for that position.
My case is exactly how I stated. Im fine with existing background checks, for dealers. Am opposed for private sales. Is that clearer?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,668
4,596
126
In terms of state gun laws: we can disagree, then, on what common sense really means. Common sense [/QUOTE]
Right, you're enlightened, that's why you desire a suppressor.
You don't have to be enlightened to desire a suppressor, You just have to have compassion for your and other people's hearing. A suppressor helps to reduce the concussive force of the pressure wave created by a fired cartridge from dangerous to semi tolerable levels at a gun range for others or yourself is shooting alone. It is a safety device. It reduces both accuracy and projectile velocity..

Dunno how progressive you are, or libertarian, but at the end of this very close to TLDR post, you defer to your rights being whatever the SCOTUS says they are. doesn't sound very libertarian to me.
I am not so libertarian as to imagine myself above the law when it comes to the purchase of weapons. I would not and don't know how to obtain guns illegally. I believe gun laws should be uniform across all states but I am stuck with California laws. I got a kick out of a purchase I made yesterday, legal in California, but not able to be shipped to Massachusetts residences.

If your sample size is the human race, then sure...it's obvious that very many people don't have this "inner good". As evidenced by our history perpetrating violence onto each other en masse. Not only that, but humans can commit terrible atrocities in the name of what they think is "good", and they still have the ability to rationalize it internally.

I do find it funny that you're the one complaining about what you can and cannot own in firearm hardware, but discussing why you would even need to own any of it as someone else's problem.

I mean, if you perceived others as having this inner good, then you wouldn't really need any firearms at all.
As I have told you a million times, you can't trust because you have not had the requisite experience that can be had from a particular altered state of consciousness. You see people as your conscious experience allows you to see them. You understanding is that humans are what you see them to be. But because you have not experienced something revolutionary within your consciousness only what you can see is what you get. People are capable of great evil but you can't say why. You see that as their reality, their real nature and that makes your life very simple, black and white.

The fact is that humanity is sick with the disease of self hate and that is what makes them evil. They have been made to believe evil exists and act accordingly when they are told that is what they are. You are stuck in that world and are trapped by that world view. There is a difference between being simply evil and having a mental disease that tells you you are. There is no answers to the dilemma in your world view but there is in mine. The answer is easy-peasy, heal. But that's where it gets rough.

You demonstrated your humanity, nothing to be ashamed of. It's obvious to me that firearms are an emotional thing for you. You can try to project onto me if you want, like it's my problem, but that's your issue, not mine.

I'm human just like everyone else. When I encounter people, some of them give me a strange vibe that starts to stir that fight or flight response. However, most of the time, that's not the case. So it's fine to say that some people create a fear response, but it's not accurate to blanket statement that like you did here.
Firearms are not the issue. The issue is how do we address evil. You limit the solution to gun violence to exclusively to techniques that do not address the core of the problem. I do not object to many aspects of such attempts, reasonable gun regulation, only its exclusivity without address of the underlying social issues. As for the rest of this section of your reply I can make no sense of how it relates to what I said.

In terms of state gun laws: we can disagree, then, on what common sense really means. Common sense IMO means reasonable accommodations relative to the situation. Firearms are very good at their job, killing. It seems to me, common sense would include locking them up when not in use, especially if there's young persons around. That is not a rule of thumb everywhere in America, but it should be.
I tend to agree but I would prefer to have children around who have been educated on the danger of firearms and are raised in a way that internalizes a sense of duty to live responsibly. They certainly should be kept out of the reach of small children and be available enough to older children so that they are not curious to want to explore handling them having been allowed to under supervision. The hitch is that, if the purpose of owning a gun is self defense, then the gun is always on duty and having it locked away unloaded and separate from ammunition defeats that purpose.

Waiting 10 days or owning a suppressor is just your desire. It's not required for self defense, and it's not even in the 2A (neither is self defense).
Suppressors are legal in 42 states, not in yours or mine. To own one requires a tax and a lengthy waiting period i believe. I have no problem if the state wants to make laws that outlaw suppressors in the commission of crimes or extra penalties when used. I object to the fact that they can't be used period where I am even to protect people's hearing at a gun range of personally when legally shooting alone. The reasons suppressors are banned may have been related to poaching, so ban them for that but not for everybody who wants to use them to protect their hearing or disturb the neighbors. Stupid laws create resentment for stupid law makers. I hope the Supreme Court one day outlaws a blanket ban.

Whatever dude, this entire back and forth was generated by basic numbers showing firearm related deaths in the age group 1-24 overtaking car deaths. The numbers reveal that in the last 20 years, car deaths have come down a lot due to regulation, and it's likely firearm deaths have increased because the lack of regulations.

If personal responsibility were such an American pillar of society, this wouldn't be the case.
The purpose of cars is to get from point A to point B and doing so safely is a feature. The purpose of guns is to kill. To make them less deadly is a defect to anybody who owns them for self defense. Self defense is a natural right. Where successful a person who has a worse case of self hate may die at the hands of someone who would never initiate such an attack unprovoked. This is a win for everybody in my opinion.

Incorrect all around. You wish it to be true, but it's not.
Tou wish to believe that some people are just evil without any explanation as to why that is but the symplistic statement that's just how it is. If it is true that humanity is asleep living in a wrong world, deluded by illusion of duality to believe in good and evil, then your worldview is simply wrong. There is no way to prove my case except by experience you seem not to have had. I do what I can to show you what is wrong with your thinking. That's it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,668
4,596
126
So because people break the law, it means your 2A rights are violated? lol, do you hear yourself?
I hear myself. Apparently you do not. I did not say my 2A rights are being violated. I am saying that because they exist and theoretically can't be violated that means no restrictions applied to me will prevent others from using guns to intentionally kill people because they save the same rights too. Guns are and attempts to regulate them, all well and good when dealing with who owns them etc. will not stop the intent some have to kill other people. They have a disease that regulation will not treat and that is where the focus should be, in my opinion.

Interesting, I wonder if you defer to all SCOTUS decisions so effortlessly. I'm curious if you will do the same when Roe vs. Wade is rolled back.
What else would I do. I have one vote to try to keep Republicans out of office so they can't appoint judges. To rule against Roe vs Wade would be a titanic mistake in my opinion, whereas conservative 2M interpretations would be welcomed in my opinion. I do not hope for much, however, because as it is currently, Democratic states are disarming themselves and Red states are loading up, which I think suits the court just fine.

Nice how you want to follow the red states down the civil war path, while somehow rationalizing that you're enlightenment means you see humans as inherently good.
Yes you think that way because you believe that people are just evil willy nilly rather than infected with a cureable disease. Therefore you can't understand that when people who are sick act out their mental illness in a manner that harms innocent people others have the right to defend themselves against being punished for someone elses disease. It is a natural right to protect the innocent from the acting out mentally ill.

Anyways, good talk moonie, turns out you're human after all, with some of the same human traits as your fellow americans.
Your understanding of human traits does not include an understanding possible with a psychological experience that collapses the delusion of duality.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,093
4,326
136
Those mean ole democrats, not allowing a suppressor.

Besides concealing a gun shot in a crime, there's not real world scenario that requires a suppressor.
You use hearing protection whenever practicing, I'm sure. So the thousands of rounds spent doing that don't need one. And in a life or death self defense scenario, you're not going to be firing magazines. Crime is the only scenario I can come up with that one would want a suppressor.

It's clear from this particular response that you are biased and emotional regarding this topic...Your 2A freedoms are still intact though, as suppressor's aren't mentioned at all in the 2A

Wow dude, just wow. Those are you're problems?
Your statement here shows you know jack shit about shooting and guns, and this is the problem with democrats and their attempts to address gun regulation and public safety.

Ds start at a position of ignorance, claim their aim is to protect the public, then just pass laws that have little to do with safety and more geared to just being cunts because you think all gun owners are Republicans and here's where you can do some culture war FUs.

These laws have no credibility with gun owners because they are obviously flawed in logic and really just red tape to fuck with them. All trust for creating actual public safety laws starts off as broken.

Where Ds then lose is that gun owners are gun owners and enthusiasts every day, every election season, and carry that annoyance with them everytime they are enjoying their hobby or sport.

Anti gun Ds may post some opinions on Facebook, and maybe show up for a presidential election, but otherwise they don't really do anything to forward their cause.

Meanwhile, for gun owners, gun shops, gun ranges, manufacturers, hunter societies, sport shooters and general enthusiasts... politics and policy is a all the time topic.

There are lots of laws, and to be a gun owner, you have to be acutely aware of the laws lest you accidental run afoul and lose all your rights.

R Primary candidates and surrogates come to gun shops and ranges. Political lawn signs are common year around, even off-season primary elections.

Shops often give discounts to NRA members and make it easy to join. R merchandise is often for sale too, since they are the ones voting for the community and their interests.


It's a lifestyle. Ds are fair-weather activists fighting a highly invested lifestyle.

And they can't even explain what an AR is or why their dumb idea for yet another regulation is actually a good faith effort and not another attempt to go fucking with them.

And if I want to be a gun owner and enjoy sport shooting, or hunting or just want a firearm for self defence... what motivation do I have to be a democrat?
None, and it used to not be this way, but now the Ds are toxic to gun owners.

Then Ds wonder why they keep losing elections, lose in the SC, and can't keep a majority in the Senate.
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
6,340
3,717
106
There should not be any private sales. Every transfer should be done at a licensed dealer where all the Is can be crossed and Ts dotted.
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
6,340
3,717
106
If you're found in possession of a weapon that does not have a legally recorded transfer to you, guess what you get? Matching interlocked bracelets!!!!
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
6,340
3,717
106
If a weapon registered to you is used in a crime, guess what you get? Matching interlocked bracelets.

If it was stolen and you didn't report it and make sure it was taken out of your name .... tough noogies.


If you sold it, or gave it away and didn't record the transfer to the new owner ... tough noogies.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,093
4,326
136
In terms of state gun laws: we can disagree, then, on what common sense really means. Common sense

You don't have to be enlightened to desire a suppressor, You just have to have compassion for your and other people's hearing. A suppressor helps to reduce the concussive force of the pressure wave created by a fired cartridge from dangerous to semi tolerable levels at a gun range for others or yourself is shooting alone. It is a safety device. It reduces both accuracy and projectile velocity..



I am not so libertarian as to imagine myself above the law when it comes to the purchase of weapons. I would not and don't know how to obtain guns illegally. I believe gun laws should be uniform across all states but I am stuck with California laws. I got a kick out of a purchase I made yesterday, legal in California, but not able to be shipped to Massachusetts residences.



As I have told you a million times, you can't trust because you have not had the requisite experience that can be had from a particular altered state of consciousness. You see people as your conscious experience allows you to see them. You understanding is that humans are what you see them to be. But because you have not experienced something revolutionary within your consciousness only what you can see is what you get. People are capable of great evil but you can't say why. You see that as their reality, their real nature and that makes your life very simple, black and white.

The fact is that humanity is sick with the disease of self hate and that is what makes them evil. They have been made to believe evil exists and act accordingly when they are told that is what they are. You are stuck in that world and are trapped by that world view. There is a difference between being simply evil and having a mental disease that tells you you are. There is no answers to the dilemma in your world view but there is in mine. The answer is easy-peasy, heal. But that's where it gets rough.



Firearms are not the issue. The issue is how do we address evil. You limit the solution to gun violence to exclusively to techniques that do not address the core of the problem. I do not object to many aspects of such attempts, reasonable gun regulation, only its exclusivity without address of the underlying social issues. As for the rest of this section of your reply I can make no sense of how it relates to what I said.



I tend to agree but I would prefer to have children around who have been educated on the danger of firearms and are raised in a way that internalizes a sense of duty to live responsibly. They certainly should be kept out of the reach of small children and be available enough to older children so that they are not curious to want to explore handling them having been allowed to under supervision. The hitch is that, if the purpose of owning a gun is self defense, then the gun is always on duty and having it locked away unloaded and separate from ammunition defeats that purpose.



Suppressors are legal in 42 states, not in yours or mine. To own one requires a tax and a lengthy waiting period i believe. I have no problem if the state wants to make laws that outlaw suppressors in the commission of crimes or extra penalties when used. I object to the fact that they can't be used period where I am even to protect people's hearing at a gun range of personally when legally shooting alone. The reasons suppressors are banned may have been related to poaching, so ban them for that but not for everybody who wants to use them to protect their hearing or disturb the neighbors. Stupid laws create resentment for stupid law makers. I hope the Supreme Court one day outlaws a blanket ban.



The purpose of cars is to get from point A to point B and doing so safely is a feature. The purpose of guns is to kill. To make them less deadly is a defect to anybody who owns them for self defense. Self defense is a natural right. Where successful a person who has a worse case of self hate may die at the hands of someone who would never initiate such an attack unprovoked. This is a win for everybody in my opinion.



Tou wish to believe that some people are just evil without any explanation as to why that is but the symplistic statement that's just how it is. If it is true that humanity is asleep living in a wrong world, deluded by illusion of duality to believe in good and evil, then your worldview is simply wrong. There is no way to prove my case except by experience you seem not to have had. I do what I can to show you what is wrong with your thinking. That's it.
It's very nice when at the range, the person next to you has a suppressed firearm. Makes conversation/instructions to trainees, concentration and focus on placing a well aimed shot far easier and more pleasant.

The current laws and fees on suppressors are idiotic, particularly given they are personal protective equipment.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,065
14,158
146
I hear myself. Apparently you do not. I did not say my 2A rights are being violated. I am saying that because they exist and theoretically can't be violated that means no restrictions applied to me will prevent others from using guns to intentionally kill people because they save the same rights too. Guns are and attempts to regulate them, all well and good when dealing with who owns them etc. will not stop the intent some have to kill other people. They have a disease that regulation will not treat and that is where the focus should be, in my opinion.
Regulation can certainly treat the symptoms, that's fact.


What else would I do. I have one vote to try to keep Republicans out of office so they can't appoint judges. To rule against Roe vs Wade would be a titanic mistake in my opinion, whereas conservative 2M interpretations would be welcomed in my opinion. I do not hope for much, however, because as it is currently, Democratic states are disarming themselves and Red states are loading up, which I think suits the court just fine.
Ok, so deferring to the SCOTUS decision works when it suits your emotional attachment.


Yes you think that way because you believe that people are just evil willy nilly rather than infected with a cureable disease. Therefore you can't understand that when people who are sick act out their mental illness in a manner that harms innocent people others have the right to defend themselves against being punished for someone elses disease. It is a natural right to protect the innocent from the acting out mentally ill.
Obvious load of bs. I'm never even implied such a thing. You should probably start reading.

Your understanding of human traits does not include an understanding possible with a psychological experience that collapses the delusion of duality.
Right, I'm not enlightened like you. lol.

Your argument just boils down to that classic joke before there were meme's: "guns don't kill people, postal workers do"

Yea, gun need an operator. And you focus is on that only. Mine's on both the operator and the device.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,065
14,158
146
Your statement here shows you know jack shit about shooting and guns, and this is the problem with democrats and their attempts to address gun regulation and public safety.

Ds start at a position of ignorance, claim their aim is to protect the public, then just pass laws that have little to do with safety and more geared to just being cunts because you think all gun owners are Republicans and here's where you can do some culture war FUs.
*shrug*, I don't know everything about it, but I know enough to not hurt myself or others, and to take necessary safety precautions.

The rest of your rant isn't directed at me. I'm in MA, and there's plenty of gun use, no suppressors needed. Hunting, gun ranges around me within just a few miles, etc..

I hold an LTC and plan on getting into the hobby as soon as I get a safe to hold at least 1 rifle, 1 shotgun, and 1 handgun.

The good thing about America is there is no shortage of firearms ;)

I can't help but notice you didn't actually provide a real world use for it, just ranted about D's losing elections even though they still seem to be the majority in the country.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,668
4,596
126
Regulation can certainly treat the symptoms, that's fact.
I don't disagree with that. My point is that there are regulations and there are regulations, some sound and full of common sense and others based on fear and misunderstanding and indifference to other people capacity to exercise responsibility. I think, therefore, that laws based on sound reasoning and ones based of fear are easily distinguishable by unbiased and well informed people, people that is who do not come into the argument full of emotional fears.

Ok, so deferring to the SCOTUS decision works when it suits your emotional attachment.
No, We all must defer to any SCOTUS decision like it or not.

Obvious load of bs. I'm never even implied such a thing. You should probably start reading.
I have suggested that some things I say will not make sense to you because of the difference in our perspectives. You state clearly and over and over that regulations are required to prevent evil people from being able to do bad deeds. But you can't explain why they are evil and knowing why changes everything. Regulations can do nothing to fix evil behavior and that is what needs fixing. You rely on fear and punishment to make you feel safe. Not going to work. You are not focused on the source of the disease only how it manifests, trying to limit that.

Right, I'm not enlightened like you. lol.
Yes you are; you just don't know it. It would be nice if you did.

Your argument just boils down to that classic joke before there were meme's: "guns don't kill people, postal workers do"
Quite right. Have you any idea how the Post Office used to treat its workers and how little they were paid. Probably still do. They couldn't even strike although some of them did. The same process of disregard for human dignity that keeps laying out people on the streets. Fix the system. Give people the feeling they are needed and wanted in life and everything regarding gun violence will change.

Yea, gun need an operator. And you focus is on that only. Mine's on both the operator and the device.
Actually I want to go much further making changes to society than the gun laws you favor. I want a revolution in how society operates. I am a progressive not a manipulator of symptoms to assuage my irrational fears. Look at our world from the point of view that every person in it was created in the image of God and then tell me the issue isn't that people hate that God within.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,065
14,158
146
I don't disagree with that. My point is that there are regulations and there are regulations, some sound and full of common sense and others based on fear and misunderstanding and indifference to other people capacity to exercise responsibility. I think, therefore, that laws based on sound reasoning and ones based of fear are easily distinguishable by unbiased and well informed people, people that is who do not come into the argument full of emotional fears.
Sure, but you might want to reign in those emotions.


No, We all must defer to any SCOTUS decision like it or not.
Maybe not so libertarian there then ;)

Republican's don't wanna, and create change with it. Think about that for a few.

I have suggested that some things I say will not make sense to you because of the difference in our perspectives. You state clearly and over and over that regulations are required to prevent evil people from being able to do bad deeds. But you can't explain why they are evil and knowing why changes everything.
No Moonie, that's you telling me what I'm saying, when I have not used those words. Like you, helping people is what I think should be a priority. Poor mental health yields poor societal behavior. You use words like "good" and "evil", which are very subjective. You use them because your "enlightened" and feel very sure of yourself. But at the same time, reveal your humanity on this topic.

You once talked about your death of ego, but yours murdered you old selfs and consumed it. Now it's massive.

Regulations can do nothing to fix evil behavior and that is what needs fixing. You rely on fear and punishment to make you feel safe. Not going to work. You are not focused on the source of the disease only how it manifests, trying to limit that.
Again, not reading at all. Unlike you, it seems, I can put my attention on both. Helping people, and common sense gun regulations. You only care about one of those, and if / when it doesn't work you'll just be like "oh well, I told ya what to do, maybe if you we're enlightened like me then you'd see it too and be successful"

Yes you are; you just don't know it. It would be nice if you did.
it was tongue in cheek.

Quite right. Have you any idea how the Post Office used to treat its workers and how little they were paid. Probably still do. They couldn't even strike although some of them did. The same process of disregard for human dignity that keeps laying out people on the streets. Fix the system. Give people the feeling they are needed and wanted in life and everything regarding gun violence will change.
Go for it! Let me know when you have some ideas to go along with the ideals.

Actually I want to go much further making changes to society than the gun laws you favor. I want a revolution in how society operates. I am a progressive not a manipulator of symptoms to assuage my irrational fears. Look at our world from the point of view that every person in it was created in the image of God and then tell me the issue isn't that people hate that God within.
lol, oh man thanks. I had forgotten about your religious piece already.

I mean, restructuring America won't happen without destroying it. So good luck with that.

Let me know if you have some more ideas to go along with this that doesn't involve your totally progressive and not authoritarian perspective ;)
 
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Mar 11, 2004
21,874
4,065
126
If Moonbeam was actually concerned about mental health he'd self commit.

Also, LOL at Bitek flying off the handle whilst not being able to actually provide a legit need for suppressor and trying to call people stupid. Even better is the dipshit spewing the gun grabber insults because actually addressing real arguments is beyond them. I feel like you could just splice their nonsense onto Turmp speeches and they'd fit perfectly. And yet they're too obtuse to know it.

You gun nuts are a hoot.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,668
4,596
126
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Sure, but you might want to reign in those emotions.
I know you are but what am I?

Maybe not so libertarian there then ;)
I used the word libertarian as opposed to authroitarian to distinguish bewtween two different mind sets, one of which views humanity as essentially good, possessed of inalienable rights, created in the image of God, freeable from the delusion of duality, having a the potential to experience mystical transformative conscious state, etc, as opposed to the view that humanity is basically evil or always egotistically self centered and requiring fear of punishment to keep in line, regulations, imposed control, you name it. Submission to the rule of law is how the empty of real self respect manage society. Society, owing to the way we structure it and it structures us, is full of such people. In order to change that we will need a Supreme court full of libertarians of the type I describe.[/QUOTE]

Republican's don't wanna, and create change with it. Think about that for a few.
You are with them there on that. There is a distinction with little difference in my mind between conservative who hope for retrogression and liberals who want to tweak the system.

No Moonie, that's you telling me what I'm saying, when I have not used those words. Like you, helping people is what I think should be a priority. Poor mental health yields poor societal behavior. You use words like "good" and "evil", which are very subjective. You use them because your "enlightened" and feel very sure of yourself. But at the same time, reveal your humanity on this topic.
I am very certain that if you set out to prove there is a good and an evil and to define what they are you will fail because they do not in fact exist. You will arrive at the realization that life is absolutely good-and-evil meaningless. This experience should tell you that all of your dreams of bring meaning to life will be completely useless, all of your attempts to impose order for the sake of the better delusional, hopeless, and bound to failure. You will, if sincere in your attempt, come to the end of hope's rope. Where do you go from there. You will not know unless you arrive there yourself to find out. Why would I not be sure. When you have lost all that can be taken what is left can't be. No words can tell other the value of that treasure that is your true self. What I hope for is to tell you the value of your own humanity. I already saw the value of mine.

You once talked about your death of ego, but yours murdered you old selfs and consumed it. Now it's massive
Here's wishing you the same.

Again, not reading at all. Unlike you, it seems, I can put my attention on both. Helping people, and common sense gun regulations. You only care about one of those, and if / when it doesn't work you'll just be like "oh well, I told ya what to do, maybe if you we're enlightened like me then you'd see it too and be successful"
When I read what you say I read it from a perspective different from the one that you write in. So it will look to you that I am not reading what you write because it isn't what you write that matters but the perspective from which you present it. My challenge isn't to what you are saying but the the perspective from which you present it. Your words reveal to me an authoritarian approach, both to how to regulate guns and how to help human suffering.

it was tongue in cheek.
I read the perspective in which that is true. "If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all." Both tongue and cheek but also the absolute truth about how we all really feel. You do not know that as truth but I do. Naturally is is very egotistical to know things, right? I would try to be more modest but I already unlearned everything I thought I knew. What I haven't been able to successfully do is to unlearn the lies I was taught to feel. But I do know what they are.

Go for it! Let me know when you have some ideas to go along with the ideals.
LOL, My ideas are to help anyone reading who wants to see. Surely you didn't think a person with the biggest ego on earth was wasting his time sharing my impressions with you for egotistical reasons. What could an ant like you possibly buy me. :)

lol, oh man thanks. I had forgotten about your religious piece already.
You certainly did. It doesn't fit with your authoritarian world view.

I mean, restructuring America won't happen without destroying it. So good luck with that.
Your pessimism is well earned. I decided to start destroying the country one wrong world view at a time starting with you and you can see the luck I am having.

Let me know if you have some more ideas to go along with this that doesn't involve your totally progressive and not authoritarian perspective ;)
Let me know when you are ready.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,065
14,158
146
I know you are but what am I?
That's what you were going for.


I used the word libertarian as opposed to authroitarian to distinguish bewtween two different mind sets, one of which views humanity as essentially good, possessed of inalienable rights, created in the image of God, freeable from the delusion of duality, having a the potential to experience mystical transformative conscious state, etc, as opposed to the view that humanity is basically evil or always egotistically self centered and requiring fear of punishment to keep in line, regulations, imposed control, you name it.
Submission to the rule of law is how the empty of real self respect manage society. Society, owing to the way we structure it and it structures us, is full of such people. In order to change that we will need a Supreme court full of libertarians of the type I describe.
Cool, there is no God, and we're not likely to get a SCOTUS to be filled with libertarians. I mean, a SCOTUS is the antithesis of what a libertarian would believe in.



You are with them there on that. There is a distinction with little difference in my mind between conservative who hope for retrogression and liberals who want to tweak the system.
Um yea, if this is some attempt to shame me, then it's gonna back fire, because you are with them there on that as well. We all have ideals, whether we know it or not, and want certain things to be implemented in society.


I am very certain that if you set out to prove there is a good and an evil and to define what they are you will fail because they do not in fact exist. You will arrive at the realization that life is absolutely good-and-evil meaningless. This experience should tell you that all of your dreams of bring meaning to life will be completely useless, all of your attempts to impose order for the sake of the better delusional, hopeless, and bound to failure. You will, if sincere in your attempt, come to the end of hope's rope. Where do you go from there. You will not know unless you arrive there yourself to find out. Why would I not be sure. When you have lost all that can be taken what is left can't be. No words can tell other the value of that treasure that is your true self. What I hope for is to tell you the value of your own humanity. I already saw the value of mine.
That's funny, because you are the one using the words good and evil for this topic. Not only that, you're telling me that I'm using them when I'm really not. So here you go round and round with your self saying they don't exist, but at the same time you've used those terms already.


Here's wishing you the same.
No thanks.


When I read what you say I read it from a perspective different from the one that you write in. So it will look to you that I am not reading what you write because it isn't what you write that matters but the perspective from which you present it. My challenge isn't to what you are saying but the the perspective from which you present it. Your words reveal to me an authoritarian approach, both to how to regulate guns and how to help human suffering.
What a great rationalization for your strawman, you know....where you misrepresent what others are saying so you can reply to what you want to instead. Fantastic show!

I read the perspective in which that is true. "If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all." Both tongue and cheek but also the absolute truth about how we all really feel. You do not know that as truth but I do. Naturally is is very egotistical to know things, right? I would try to be more modest but I already unlearned everything I thought I knew. What I haven't been able to successfully do is to unlearn the lies I was taught to feel. But I do know what they are.
How do you know what I know as truth? This is an internet forum for techies, lol.

Knowing things doesn't make you egotistical, stroking your ego while pretending others can't possibly know what you know does though.

LOL, My ideas are to help anyone reading who wants to see. Surely you didn't think a person with the biggest ego on earth was wasting his time sharing my impressions with you for egotistical reasons. What could an ant like you possibly buy me. :)
Oh shit, Moonie tossed out an LOL, showing his humanity once again. I think that's great.

Oh, I can't buy you anything, not even more perspective obviously.


You certainly did. It doesn't fit with your authoritarian world view.
Religion ingrained authoritarian world views into me just like billions of others. My experience showed me that half my life ago, and I've been battling it ever since. Unlike you, I'm more of a pragmatist than an idealist. So sure, sometimes I'll have some authoritarian undertones, but it's far less than my young self. That doesn't mean you're more "progressive", or "libertarian" than I am, it just means I'm honest with myself.


Your pessimism is well earned. I decided to start destroying the country one wrong world view at a time starting with you and you can see the luck I am having.
You're doing the Lord's work there moonie. After all, guns and Jesus are every American's God given right!


Let me know when you are ready.
Shoot ;)

But it's not me that isn't ready for it. It's humanity.
 
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Moonbeam

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