The Islamic thread

[0marTheZealot]

Men are to keep beards, wear pants long enough to cover their legs, not to show more than is necessary basically. a man is not supposed to take his shirt off in public nor show off his wealth. wearing of silk and gold is prohibited as are most forms of wealth advertisement.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Men are to keep beards, wear pants long enough to cover their legs, not to show more than is necessary basically. a man is not supposed to take his shirt off in public nor show off his wealth. wearing of silk and gold is prohibited as are most forms of wealth advertisement.

Ah, OK.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Men are to keep beards, wear pants long enough to cover their legs, not to show more than is necessary basically. a man is not supposed to take his shirt off in public nor show off his wealth. wearing of silk and gold is prohibited as are most forms of wealth advertisement.

That is up for debate and there are clearly websites on google that will give you reasons why this is not true.

 

[Aimster]

Great Sultan,
Prophet Mohammad married a 9 year old? Show me. (not a theory. Show me the facts please).
I never heard of this.

 

[drewshin]

Do you know more about different 'types' of Islam like Wahhabi and Sufi?
I always hear about the Wahhabi in Saudi Arabia that is supposed to be very strict and conservative, and Sufis (like Cat Stevens?) are considered 'mystics'... Are they also following the Koran but just different interpretations?

Also I vacationed in Egypt for two weeks last year and everyone I met was very nice. Everyone seemed just like every other person in the world, just trying to make a living and support their family. Do you think the ones that harbor anti-American attitudes are out of the mainstream?

One thing though that they would not let us do is to go inside the mosques. Other religions I know allow people to enter their places of worship, is there a reason for this (I think Mormons dont let outsiders enter either)?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Men are to keep beards, wear pants long enough to cover their legs, not to show more than is necessary basically. a man is not supposed to take his shirt off in public nor show off his wealth. wearing of silk and gold is prohibited as are most forms of wealth advertisement.

That is up for debate and there are clearly websites on google that will give you reasons why this is not true.

What Omar said is correct. There is no Quranic injunction to define what is modest. The Sunnah which is the actions of the Prophet (S.A) dictate how a Muslim should conduct himself. The actions of his wives further exemplify how a woman should be modest. The concept of modesty also comes from Ijma (scholars agreeing upon a particular issue) as well as Qiyas (analogy).

Keeping a beard is Sunnah, and therefore many Muslim males find it virtuous to keep one. Similarly, covering of hair by women is the example of the wives of the Prophet and therefore women find it virtuous to cover their hair. Both of the above are not only carried out for blessings but also for to show modesty.

The issue of Hijab/headscarf is blown out of proportion. Many Muslim women willingly choose to wear it. In other nations, the hair is covered with a dupatta (a long garment) as in Pakistan and India.

 

[rufruf44]

Quran 5:52
"[5:52] O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoso among you takes them for friends is indeed one of them. Verily Allah guides not the unjust people."

If thats taken word per word as some of you devout moslem would, thats simply mean you can't be friends to Christian and Jews. Am I correct?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Great Sultan,
Prophet Mohammad married a 9 year old? Show me. (not a theory. Show me the facts please).
I never heard of this.

Sure, I'll be happy to 🙂

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah?s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine

 

[RabidMongoose]

So is it OK to have sex with 9 year old children in today's time? Or am I reading what you just said wrong?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Quran 5:52
"[5:52] O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoso among you takes them for friends is indeed one of them. Verily Allah guides not the unjust people."

If thats taken word per word as some of you devout moslem would, thats simply mean you can't be friends to Christian and Jews. Am I correct?

There is a historical context to the Quranic injunction. Taking any line out of context results in a misinterpretation.

 

[drewshin]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Quran 5:52
"[5:52] O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoso among you takes them for friends is indeed one of them. Verily Allah guides not the unjust people."

If thats taken word per word as some of you devout moslem would, thats simply mean you can't be friends to Christian and Jews. Am I correct?

There is a historical context to the Quranic injunction. Taking any line out of context results in a misinterpretation.

this explains it well i think:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/adi03.htm

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
So is it OK to have sex with 9 year old children in today's time?

Depends on the sexual and mental maturity of the said person. I cannot generalize. By norms, I would say no.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
So is it OK to have sex with 9 year old children in today's time?

He already said its ok as long as the 9yr old reached puberty already.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Aimster
Great Sultan,
Prophet Mohammad married a 9 year old? Show me. (not a theory. Show me the facts please).
I never heard of this.

Sure, I'll be happy to 🙂

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah?s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine

Nice source. What is the Bukhari?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Quran 5:52
"[5:52] O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoso among you takes them for friends is indeed one of them. Verily Allah guides not the unjust people."

If thats taken word per word as some of you devout moslem would, thats simply mean you can't be friends to Christian and Jews. Am I correct?

There is a historical context to the Quranic injunction. Taking any line out of context results in a misinterpretation.

What kind of context is that quote in?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
So is it OK to have sex with 9 year old children in today's time?

Depends on the sexual and mental maturity of the said person. I cannot generalize. By norms, I would say no.

So you feel that there are 9 year olds that can have sex (without noting disgust) with men that are aged 40-60?

What kind of sexual and mental maturity do you feel has to be achieved?

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: drewshin

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Quran 5:52
"[5:52] O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoso among you takes them for friends is indeed one of them. Verily Allah guides not the unjust people."

If thats taken word per word as some of you devout moslem would, thats simply mean you can't be friends to Christian and Jews. Am I correct?

There is a historical context to the Quranic injunction. Taking any line out of context results in a misinterpretation.

this explains it well i think:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/adi03.htm

Ok, so this is all just a case of mistranslation? Why isn't it corrected in the Quran? I'm guessing there's no standard body that issue different versions of Quran?

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: drewshin

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Quran 5:52
"[5:52] O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoso among you takes them for friends is indeed one of them. Verily Allah guides not the unjust people."

If thats taken word per word as some of you devout moslem would, thats simply mean you can't be friends to Christian and Jews. Am I correct?

There is a historical context to the Quranic injunction. Taking any line out of context results in a misinterpretation.

this explains it well i think:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/adi03.htm

Ok, so this is all just a case of mistranslation? Why isn't it corrected in the Quran? I'm guessing there's no standard body that issue different versions of Quran?

The Quran is in Arabic. It has never been changed. It is in poetic-Arabic and it is hard to translate unless you are very good at it. The real way to find out what it means is to learn Arabic and read it in Arabic.

That is why you have some great Muslims and some fanatic Muslims. Some moderate Muslim countries and some extreme-Muslim countries.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: drewshin
Do you know more about different 'types' of Islam like Wahhabi and Sufi?
I always hear about the Wahhabi in Saudi Arabia that is supposed to be very strict and conservative, and Sufis (like Cat Stevens?) are considered 'mystics'... Are they also following the Koran but just different interpretations?

Also I vacationed in Egypt for two weeks last year and everyone I met was very nice. Everyone seemed just like every other person in the world, just trying to make a living and support their family. Do you think the ones that harbor anti-American attitudes are out of the mainstream?

One thing though that they would not let us do is to go inside the mosques. Other religions I know allow people to enter their places of worship, is there a reason for this (I think Mormons dont let outsiders enter either)?

Many harbor ill-will towards the Americans. It has nothing to do with religion but American foreign policy, such as the illegal invasion of Iraq, unfair support of Israel, rejection of Kyoto protocol, International Criminal Court, etc, etc. Of course there is a difference in the level of hatred but you would also harbor great ill-will towards Russia if they drop massive bombs into American cities killing innocents.

The story about the Wahabi sect is mostly hype. Yes, it is true, they present a stricter, more conservative interpretation of religious injunctions. However, those who believe in the Wahabi teachings follow the interpretations happily. As long as they dont impose their interpretations on other Muslims, or non-Muslims by force, I dont see why anyone should have an objection. Many of these interpretations actually have produced good results. For example, many engage in grave-worshipping which is totally prohibited in Islam. The Wahabi interpretation strictly disallows such in Saudi Arabia, where graves of the Prophet (S.A) and his companions are found.

You are incorrect that non-Muslims are not allowed into mosques. After 9/11, the President of my school and other school official visited the local campus mosque, and even prayed along with us.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Aimster
Great Sultan,
Prophet Mohammad married a 9 year old? Show me. (not a theory. Show me the facts please).
I never heard of this.

Sure, I'll be happy to 🙂

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah?s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine

Nice source. What is the Bukhari?

Isn't that the Sunnah? Sorry, brain cramped.

 

[drewshin]

yeah, i think like most ancient texts, some of it doesn't apply or is simply a sign of the times at that time.

for instance, the verse below from the bible:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

no christian that i know believes in this, i think the real thing about religious texts is the message, and not every minute detail. but of course there are some people in all religions that will skewer this to their own ends.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
So is it OK to have sex with 9 year old children in today's time?

Depends on the sexual and mental maturity of the said person. I cannot generalize. By norms, I would say no.

So you feel that there are 9 year olds that can have sex (without noting disgust) with men that are aged 40-60?

What kind of sexual and mental maturity do you feel has to be achieved?

With mutual consent and happiness of a mentally and physically mature female of any age, yes, I dont find any problem. I believe that 9 year olds would be very incompatible with men aged 40-60 in today's time, in fact, with males of any age, and therefore, no such nuptials are tied.

As for your second question, sexual maturity is determined by puberty. I am not able to answer the second question. I dont know the answer to it. I would suppose a woman who knows what a wedding is, what the consequences are of marriage, is aware of sexual intercourse, etc, etc would be good signs of mental maturity.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Aimster
Great Sultan,
Prophet Mohammad married a 9 year old? Show me. (not a theory. Show me the facts please).
I never heard of this.

Sure, I'll be happy to 🙂

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah?s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine

Nice source. What is the Bukhari?

Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and others are books of Sunnah and Hadith. They comprise the second source of Islamic Law.

 

[Aimster]

Prophet Mohammad died (he didn't write the Quran). He told a group of people about it and they memorized it line for line and after his death they wrote it according to what Prophet Mohammad said. Now why would people believe anything these low-class farmers had to say? Because -> The Quran has information that related to the Bible and there was no way some farmer like Mohammad could have a clue about all the information in the Quran. My GF told me this, so can you sum it up for me?

Also I never was told Mohammad had a 9-year old wife. I am a Shia. What is the deal here? Is this a Sunni thing?

 

[Aimster]

Also is it true Members that the Sunnis worship killed memebers of Prophet Mohammad's family? Thanks.