The Islamic thread

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sultan

I dont think the laws are barbaric and oppressive. You can have your own opinion. I dont agree with your comparison either.

The end to this argument would be my question:

Are you saying I should not abide by the US Laws because I am a Muslim? I have different beliefs than American beliefs. Does that mean I do not have to follow American beliefs?

Please answer my question. I answered yours.

I disagree. They are extremely barbaric and oppressive. Taxing non-Muslim minorities just because of their religion? Killing people for changing their religion? I can have some leeway in all factors based on different cultures or whatever, but those are just extreme.

No, I'm not saying that you shouldn't abide by US laws. There is no concrete thing as 'American beliefs' because Americans believe in all sorts of things. Americans aren't a hive mind that think homogeneously.

I have a question for you. If the Korean said to kill all non-Muslims, eat the hearts of non-Muslims babies, rape non-Muslim women, etc., would you support that? Obviously it's not in the Koran, but if it were, would you be supporting it?

 

[RabidMongoose]

I dont think the laws are barbaric and oppressive. You can have your own opinion. I dont agree with your comparison either.

You also think it's OK to bash your child's head with a rock, so this is hardly a surprise.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

I dont think the laws are barbaric and oppressive. You can have your own opinion. I dont agree with your comparison either.

The end to this argument would be my question:

Are you saying I should not abide by the US Laws because I am a Muslim? I have different beliefs than American beliefs. Does that mean I do not have to follow American beliefs?

Please answer my question. I answered yours.

I disagree. They are extremely barbaric and oppressive. Taxing non-Muslim minorities just because of their religion? Killing people for changing their religion? I can have some leeway in all factors based on different cultures or whatever, but those are just extreme.

No, I'm not saying that you shouldn't abide by US laws. There is no concrete thing as 'American beliefs' because Americans believe in all sorts of things. Americans aren't a hive mind that think homogeneously.

I have a question for you. If the Korean said to kill all non-Muslims, eat the hearts of non-Muslims babies, rape non-Muslim women, etc., would you support that? Obviously it's not in the Koran, but if it were, would you be supporting it?

You can disagree, you are entitled to it. Everyone is taxed, Muslims and non-Muslims in an Islamic state as per Islamic Law. I am taxed in America even though I do not agree with their taxation. I dont think thats barbaric or oppressive. Similarly, there exists a law for apostates, and within the Islamic nation, they should abide by the law.

There is such a thing as American Law. I abide by it. Similarly, everyone in an Islamic nation is to abide by Islamic law. There is also such a thing as American beliefs and values. Read American beliefs by John McElroy. The prime examples of an American beliefs are Democracy and Freedom, which are good things and I have high regard for them. There are many other examples of American beliefs which I do not agree with.

Your question is purely hypothetical and nonsensical, and it has no relevance to this thread. I will not be baited into this ridiculous form of argument.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

I dont think the laws are barbaric and oppressive. You can have your own opinion. I dont agree with your comparison either.

The end to this argument would be my question:

Are you saying I should not abide by the US Laws because I am a Muslim? I have different beliefs than American beliefs. Does that mean I do not have to follow American beliefs?

Please answer my question. I answered yours.

I disagree. They are extremely barbaric and oppressive. Taxing non-Muslim minorities just because of their religion? Killing people for changing their religion? I can have some leeway in all factors based on different cultures or whatever, but those are just extreme.

No, I'm not saying that you shouldn't abide by US laws. There is no concrete thing as 'American beliefs' because Americans believe in all sorts of things. Americans aren't a hive mind that think homogeneously.

I have a question for you. If the Korean said to kill all non-Muslims, eat the hearts of non-Muslims babies, rape non-Muslim women, etc., would you support that? Obviously it's not in the Koran, but if it were, would you be supporting it?

You can disagree, you are entitled to it. Everyone is taxed, Muslims and non-Muslims in an Islamic state as per Islamic Law. I am taxed in America even though I do not agree with their taxation. I dont think thats barbaric or oppressive.

I think it's strange to force non-Muslims to follow Islamic law or even have religious law as the law of a country. It's very barbaric. I can understand some elements of Islamic law to be in a country that is mainly Muslim, but you are at an extreme.

There is such a thing as American Law. I abide by it. Similarly, everyone in an Islamic nation is to abide by Islamic law. There is also such a thing as American beliefs and values. Read American beliefs by John McElroy. The prime examples of an American beliefs are Democracy and Freedom, which are good things and I have high regard for them. There are many other examples of American beliefs which I do not agree with.

Sorry, all Americans don't have one common set of beliefs.

Your question is purely hypothetical and nonsensical, and it has no relevance to this thread. I will not be baited into this ridiculous form of argument.

Interesting. I'm guessing that the answer is yes because you seem to follow everything from 'Islamic law', except for parts that make you money, so literally and strictly and pretend that these laws from over 1000 years ago are still all applicable today.

 

[Sultan]

any other questions?

 

[rufruf44]

Still waiting your take on this one:

"But if a moslem lived in where Syariah isn't the so-called law of the land. It is ok for said moslem not to follow it then? In other word, for a moslem the law of the land took precedence over the Syariah ?"

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Still waiting your take on this one:

"But if a moslem lived in where Syariah isn't the so-called law of the land. It is ok for said moslem not to follow it then? In other word, for a moslem the law of the land took precedence over the Syariah ?"

First, its spelled Shariah.

Your question is somewhat misconstrued. A Muslim is supposed to follow the law of the land in which he resides. Shariah covers not only religious rituals, but many aspects of day-to-day life. So obviously a Muslim is supposed to follow the Shariah teachings wherever he is.

However, since Islamic fiqh or legal law cannot be established in the said country, then it clearly cannot be implemented.

 

[Sultan]

any more questsions?

 

[Sultan]

very little Muslim contribution to this thread?

 

[Infohawk]

Why does the radical christian right hate muslims so much even though they are supposed to love everyone?

 

[0marTheZealot]

In regard to the jizyah. Muslims do not pay a jizyah because they pay the Zakat, a 2.5% tax on all earnings. The jizyah is a tax in the same vein as Zakat. In the US, I pay both a Zakat and a "jizyah" (the American tax system). However, under true Islamic law, one would pay one or the other. It is a means of collecting and distrubuting revenue, not a penalty for not being Muslim.

Regarding Riddah or Apostaty, one can leave the religion w/o a public fanfare, and AFAIK, there would be no repurcussions. Imagine if one of you were part of a devout church. Then, one day, you publicly renounce Jesus and embrace Islam. There would an outlash against you. Apostaty can be considered in the same vein.

It really is only a matter of perspective.

Infohawk: that is a question that should be addressed in a thread for questions about christianity.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
In regard to the jizyah. Muslims do not pay a jizyah because they pay the Zakat, a 2.5% tax on all earnings. The jizyah is a tax in the same vein as Zakat. In the US, I pay both a Zakat and a "jizyah" (the American tax system). However, under true Islamic law, one would pay one or the other. It is a means of collecting and distrubuting revenue, not a penalty for not being Muslim.

Regarding Riddah or Apostaty, one can leave the religion w/o a public fanfare, and AFAIK, there would be no repurcussions. Imagine if one of you were part of a devout church. Then, one day, you publicly renounce Jesus and embrace Islam. There would an outlash against you. Apostaty can be considered in the same vein.

It really is only a matter of perspective.

Infohawk: that is a question that should be addressed in a thread for questions about christianity.

Thanks Omar. I believe my posts about Jizyah and Riddah carried the same message.

Good to have another Muslim contribute.

 

[Aimster]

What does the Quran say about Ghost? Psychics? Does any religion say anything about them? On Sundays when I turn on the t.v I see a man who touches handicap people on the head and they can walk again. What does Islam say about this? *yeah I just finished watching sci-fi chan...*

 

[AntiEverything]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Why does the radical christian right hate muslims so much even though they are supposed to love everyone?

Why does Infohawk insist on trolling?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Regarding Riddah or Apostaty, one can leave the religion w/o a public fanfare, and AFAIK, there would be no repurcussions. Imagine if one of you were part of a devout church. Then, one day, you publicly renounce Jesus and embrace Islam. There would an outlash against you. Apostaty can be considered in the same vein.

I'm sorry, but that outlash wouldn't necessarily include death. If it did call for death, then it would be equally barbaric.

In regard to the jizyah. Muslims do not pay a jizyah because they pay the Zakat, a 2.5% tax on all earnings. The jizyah is a tax in the same vein as Zakat. In the US, I pay both a Zakat and a "jizyah" (the American tax system). However, under true Islamic law, one would pay one or the other. It is a means of collecting and distrubuting revenue, not a penalty for not being Muslim.

Isn't Zakat meant for charity? Is Jizyah also meant for charity?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: Aimster
What does the Quran say about Ghost? Psychics? Does any religion say anything about them? On Sundays when I turn on the t.v I see a man who touches handicap people on the head and they can walk again. What does Islam say about this? *yeah I just finished watching sci-fi chan...*

By ghosts I think you mean jinns, which are briefly mentioned in the Qu'ran. My knowledge of them is incomplete, but they are apparantly a race of fire created by Allah as well.

Most of the other things you mentioned are secular "artifacts." The Qu'ran doesn't mentioned them, to my knowledge.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Aimster
What does the Quran say about Ghost? Psychics? Does any religion say anything about them? On Sundays when I turn on the t.v I see a man who touches handicap people on the head and they can walk again. What does Islam say about this? *yeah I just finished watching sci-fi chan...*

By ghosts I think you mean jinns, which are briefly mentioned in the Qu'ran. My knowledge of them is incomplete, but they are apparantly a race of fire created by Allah as well.

Most of the other things you mentioned are secular "artifacts." The Qu'ran doesn't mentioned them, to my knowledge.

Yes, Jinns are God's creation. Satan himself was/is a Jinn. They are created from fire.

Different prophets had different virtues. For example Islam teaches us that Jesus could heal. So they are present in the Islamic teachings.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: Sultan
very little Muslim contribution to this thread?

Sorry Sultan, I really don't have the time to read all posts.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: Sultan
very little Muslim contribution to this thread?

Sorry Sultan, I really don't have the time to read all posts.

Read as much as you can and contribute. I'd really appreciate if all the Muslims can do their part in removing the misinformation about Islam and presenting Islamic beliefs, values and laws.

 

[Sultan]

any other questions about Islam?

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Everything you are saying Sultan is not practiced in today's society. Even in the majority of the Muslim countries. That is why I continue to stick my nose in this thread.

Most of these rules were there to help the growth of Islam. Why? Because back then they were going against Christianity and you need to keep your new faith strong if you want it to survive. Times have changed and there is no point for any of these rules. The majority of Muslims agree with me. Look at the governments in Muslim countries. They follow the Laws of Islam as well.

Well this is your opinion, but the way i see it is that those laws made sense for the time. IE: If you lived back in the 600s. It wasn't to "go against another religion" as much as it was "in order to survive in the world back then, this is what works very well".

But to survive today is a lot easier. Even in poor places, people are better off than they were hundreds of years ago, the rules should be interpreated and adjusted to fit the needs of the specific era. Exactly how should it be interpreated and applied? Well, that is where you have carying degrees of "religousness"~ those who follow more closely what is said are called "very close" and "fundamentalists" because they follow the fundamentals of the religion. But I don't think that makes them any closer to God than a person who interprets it in a different way. In the end, regardless of people's "interpretation" of religion they all want to be a good Muslims. That is something in common with all people~ Regardless of your religion and whatever you view interpret it as, you want to be seen as a good person.

 

[Sultan]

So far, the following issues have been discussed:

*Apostasy
*Jalabeeb
*Dressing
*Attar
*Concept of Hijab
*Interaction between opposite genders
*Concept of Mehram
*Jesus as a Prophet of Islam
*Islamic view of Judaism and Christianity.
*Prohibition of alcohol, pork, fornication.
*Jizyah
*Interest
*Homicide bombers
*Marriage of the Prophet (S.A) to Hazrat Aisha (R.A)
*Sources of Islamic Law
*Honor Killings
*Concept of Shariah
*Concept of Jinns

Any other topic any non-Muslim would like to discuss?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Klixxer
...

You repeatedly try to pull the 'holier-than-thou' act because you're 'Jewish' despite apparently not believing in anything that a real Jew would believe in. Are you culturally Jewish or religiously Jewish? If culturally, you're hardly a representative of the Jewish religion. Let me know when you figure out what your own morals are, then maybe you can talk to me about mine. If you want to have a discussion of ethics rather than morals, let me know - maybe you'll learn something. Unfortunately, I already know you're not interested in anything except getting a few more s before you head back to your hole, so I've just wasted ten seconds of my time.

I do believe you are a member of the whore of babylon?

Your religion is why condoms are not used in africa, which you of course defend, "condoms do not work, the virus can penetrate the condoms" which isn't even funny considering that it cannot penetrate something as porous as skin.

You and your kind are sick people, more inclined to spreading faith than actually helping.

And i am not holier than thou, i am the worst man i know of.

I am Jewish by heritage and by faith, not by religion though, religion is for those who are so weak in their faith that they need a crutch to explain what SHOULD be obvious. If i did belive in the torah i would not push my religion in public, no Jew will, it is for me to know and you to figure out, GOD reaches those he wish to reach.

I know you, whore of babylon, twisting the truth to fit your agenda, i know you, i know your words, your lies to try to fit what cannot fit into the truth you so vigorously struggle to keep. You are wrong and you know it.

You want to have a discussion about ethics rather than morals, yet you have posted that they are the same, keep track of your lies next time.

You are despicable, that is the nicest thing i have to say about you.

And to be honest, i think it is you who feel that i am above you, in a way holier than you, i am not, trust me, you are way above me on the holier ladder.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Sultan
So far, the following issues have been discussed:

*Apostasy
*Jalabeeb
*Dressing
*Attar
*Concept of Hijab
*Interaction between opposite genders
*Concept of Mehram
*Jesus as a Prophet of Islam
*Islamic view of Judaism and Christianity.
*Prohibition of alcohol, pork, fornication.
*Jizyah
*Interest
*Homicide bombers
*Marriage of the Prophet (S.A) to Hazrat Aisha (R.A)
*Sources of Islamic Law
*Honor Killings
*Concept of Shariah
*Concept of Jinns

Any other topic any non-Muslim would like to discuss?

Let's discuss punishment for social crimes? How about for not wearing the proper religious clothing you will be locked into a burning building (this, of course only goes for women) or execution (under taliban rule which you approve of) or stoning your own children to death which you "hope" to do.

What is the punishment for the following acts:

Homosexual sex
Fornication
Adultery
Pedophilia (neither of them married, the female is the child)
Necrophilia
Murder of a non-believer

All according to the islamic faith.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Marriage of the Prophet (S.A) to Hazrat Aisha (R.A)

I am a little confused about this one. Was the marriage when she was 9 or 6 years old and was the marriage 'consumated' when she was 9? Or was it when she was older?

Another serious question I have is about 'modesty' where women wear the hijab...is there a male equivalent of modesty? How come it seems that many Muslim males do not wear some sort of additional clothing to appear modest?