If its as easy as you make it sound Klixxer, we won't have the crusade, civil war in various countries, 9/11,etc.
If its as easy as you make it sound Klixxer, we won't have the crusade, civil war in various countries, 9/11,etc.
I think it is a misconception that Muslims are backward and anti-progressive. I believe that is what you wish to imply. I, being a Muslim, am working in the Computer industry with a sound education. Many Muslims in Muslim nations are successful in life and make use of the modernities of today's time. We've had Muslim Nobel prize winners (for Science, not only peace). Muslim nations have state of the art medical facilities. Malaysia is a dominant progressive Muslim nation. A Muslim nation even has the capability to produce nuclear energy, not that it is the sole measure of progress. Since many of you have hardly stepped out of the West, these misconceptions persist.
You also fail to address that many of today's scientific achievements have contributions of Muslims. Did you know the term Algebra comes from a Muslim mathematician called Al Jabar? Every nation has a rise and fall, and the fall of the Muslim nation is not complete yet. There was a long period of the dark ages for the Christians. Does that mean Christianity is a failed religion?
So almost all of the current inventions have been thought of by the Western scientists. That is very true. The measure of a religion is not related to scientific achievements.
No, Muslims dont hate the West. There are currently upwards of 7 million Muslims in the US, who are US Citizens. How do you figure the Muslims hate the west?
Islam is a way of life. It governs every aspect of a person's life. It also dictates laws to govern a nation.
I agree with you that Conquest is not part of any religion. Islam has no laws dictating conquests. In fact, another nation cannot be attacked by a Muslim nation unless the Muslim nation is attacked first, or if its soveriegnity is threatened. As an example of the latter, a Muslim nation is beseiged and flow of essential goods is stopped by another nation.
While I applaud your contibution to present Islamic laws and beliefs on this thread, I would appreciate it if you can also provide facts from the Quran and Sunnah via website links to prove your statements.
Some of the lady's comments are incorrect. The Quran itself states that if a Muslim finds a problem which he cannot address, he/she should refer to the Quran and Sunnah and if the answer is still not found from those two sources, the matter should be address to those in charge of the said person, meaning a religious leader, or leader of the Islamic nation.
The Quran in Arabic is the word of God. Any translation of the Qur'an immediately ceases to be the literal word of Allah, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur'an in its original Arabic form.
Please read: Introduction to translations of the Quran at USC
Thats interesting. Judging from that statement, then Israel's action toward Palestinians or toward Arabs (during 6 days war, etc)can be justified since its doing so to maintain its presence & soveriegnity as a nation?
Who was there before
The soveriengty of the arabs who lived there should come first, as should the soveriengty of Jews who lived in the area among the arabs. I am not asking a religious fanatic, i am asking Aimster, he is approximately to the Muslims what i am to Jews, someone who has the faith but does not believe that thousand year old rules are to be literally interpreted into the society of today.
The idiots who DO think so are the idiots.
You see my point?
Thats more of a political debate than a religious one, specially in this thread...
but to present another side of the view (not necessarily my side)... one can also say the Palestinian action towards Israel, as well as the neighboring Arab nations actions are justified since its doing so maintains its presence & soveriegnity as a nation? After all, Israel is the nation with the nuclear weapons, it has occupied Arab land, and have denied the Palestinians their rightful land for over 50 years.
The Israel/Palestine conflict cannot be solved until all of us stop blaming the other side for problems, and the leaders of both nations sit together with the intention of peace for the people of that region. Each side claims it own outrage, Israeli side claim suicide bombings, Palestinians claim massacres.
AnitaPeterson
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2001
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You are dodging the question, and you know it. First of all, you are living, from what I understand, in the "decadent" West, where you perceive women in mini-skirts as "objects". If you were in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, or even Egypt, I doubt you'd have flaunted your education. You say "Muslim nations have state of the art medical facilities." - you neglect to say neither of those are invented, developed or locally manufactured. And the glory of the Gulf Muslim nations - including algebra and observational astronomy - has faded after the last Umayad caliphate. The only Muslims who've done anything even remotely civilised - by Western standards - in the last few hundred years were not Semites (Arabs, that is), but of Mongolian descent or Asians.
Your religion would destroy or hide statues like "Venus of Milo", ban genetics, and forever discourage space travel (to name but a few things). Even more progressive Muslim nations (like Bangladesh or Malaysia) are drawn back by heavy religious clout.
If Max was right about religion being the "opium for the masses", then Islam is probably one of the worst strains, like heroin...
I hate Huntingdon's pesimism, but it seems he was right.
I only read the Quran and that is what I base all of this on Sultan. Nobody here is asking you what the other books say. They are asking you what the Quran says. You might not think I am a Muslim and that's fine.
You want proof that M.E countries punish for homosexuality? Punish for adultery? You really think I cannot be able to dig them up? Your very own Taliban that you support so much carried out those laws. You think Muslim countries will allow you to marry a 9 year old? Oh wait, TALIBAN DID. You are a Taliban and that makes me sick. I don't need to live in Afghanistan to know how it was like. You telling me what I've read are not true? The laws that Afghanistan had under the Taliban were all lies?
I went to my friend's house today and they are Afghan. Her father is always in Afghanistan for business. They voted for Bush just so Bush would keep the troops in Afghanistan so the Taliban would not regain power. Do not sit here and tell me people loved the Taliban. YOU loved the Taliban and their fanatical ways.
You want to know what the problem is? Pakistan is an extreme country. I'm sorry that's the fact. Where my blood comes from Iran we have a problem too. However, the people are not the problem. It's the government that's the problem. Pakistan is a problem, but in Pakistan the people are the problem. Who supported the Taliban? Pakistan. Who makes children read the Quran for 15 hours a day and nothing else? Pakistan. Who has Osama Bin Laudin t-shirts for sale on their streets? Pakistan.
I am not being racist I am pointing out the facts as I see them with my own eyes. Who disrespects their women? Pakistan. Ok, Saudi Arabia too. I wish there were more Muslims here from other parts of the world to tell you that just because your Mosque that is mainly Pakistani says something; it doesn't mean the rest of the Muslims believe it.
I don't really care who Klixxer made fun of. He was pissed off at you and his remark was to pull your leg. Klixxer and I differ on certain issues, sure. You know what we have in common? He doesn't defend anyone because they are Jew and I don't defend anyone because they are Muslim. You defend every Muslim period. They can do something wrong, but they are always right to you. The things you say in this thread piss people off and make Islam look horrible. I wouldn't blame anyone for what they've said. You've made me angry too with your killing of the child, 9-year old marriage, etc. You believe it which makes people angry.
Ashura (the holiday Shias celebrate) has people crying for a man who died thousands of years ago. I walk into a Mosque and everyone is crying for a death of some man who has long been dead(W T F ?). They even refuse to celebrate their kids birthday on this week because of someone who died years ago.
The problem with you and the world is I made my decisions myself. No book has ever told me what to believe in. The Quran has guided me, but it did not control my life. You have been told what to believe in. You were not handed a Quran and told to make up your own mind. Everyone has questions about the Quran. It is hard to understand. That is why you ask an elder who knows about the Quran. Whoever you asked gave you so fd up translation.
Please do not think your Pakistani view on Islam is how the rest of the Muslims think.
I will be the first Muslim on this thread to say it. Muslim = dangerous religion. It can be very peaceful and such a lovely religion to follow. It is a book of poetry. It is dangerous because different Mosque/Countries will preach to you different opinions of Islam. Egypt is a Muslim country. Christian, Jews go there every year. There are no problems because the government and the people believe in a peaceful Islamic state and are more than generous with Christians, etc. Turkey believes in their own version of the Quran and it has implemented it all around the country (You make fun of France for banning the headscarf. Did you know Turkey was the first country to do so?). Iran has a permanent Jewish member in their cabinet (You defend Iran?s government. The people are against it and you still support them). UAE, Dubai, Kuwait are countries where a Jew can visit and not feel threatened. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan are danger zones. They have created an evil religion.
Islam is not new. It has been around for a long time. Yet the world is facing a serious problem with it today. Because of the three countries I list above. It's not the governments. It's the people of those countries. I have no idea how to change it so don't ask.
I am not saying every Pakistani/Saudi Arabian is a terrorist. What you believe is not terror. You are not a terrorist. You do believe in an extreme version of the Quran and anything extreme is not good.
You want proof that M.E countries punish for homosexuality? Punish for adultery? You really think I cannot be able to dig them up? Your very own Taliban that you support so much carried out those laws. You think Muslim countries will allow you to marry a 9 year old? Oh wait, TALIBAN DID. You are a Taliban and that makes me sick. I don't need to live in Afghanistan to know how it was like. You telling me what I've read are not true? The laws that Afghanistan had under the Taliban were all lies?
I went to my friend's house today and they are Afghan. Her father is always in Afghanistan for business. They voted for Bush just so Bush would keep the troops in Afghanistan so the Taliban would not regain power. Do not sit here and tell me people loved the Taliban. YOU loved the Taliban and their fanatical ways.
You want to know what the problem is? Pakistan is an extreme country. I'm sorry that's the fact. Where my blood comes from Iran we have a problem too. However, the people are not the problem. It's the government that's the problem. Pakistan is a problem, but in Pakistan the people are the problem. Who supported the Taliban? Pakistan. Who makes children read the Quran for 15 hours a day and nothing else? Pakistan. Who has Osama Bin Laudin t-shirts for sale on their streets? Pakistan.
I am not being racist I am pointing out the facts as I see them with my own eyes. Who disrespects their women? Pakistan. Ok, Saudi Arabia too. I wish there were more Muslims here from other parts of the world to tell you that just because your Mosque that is mainly Pakistani says something; it doesn't mean the rest of the Muslims believe it.
I don't really care who Klixxer made fun of. He was pissed off at you and his remark was to pull your leg. Klixxer and I differ on certain issues, sure. You know what we have in common? He doesn't defend anyone because they are Jew and I don't defend anyone because they are Muslim. You defend every Muslim period. They can do something wrong, but they are always right to you. The things you say in this thread piss people off and make Islam look horrible. I wouldn't blame anyone for what they've said. You've made me angry too with your killing of the child, 9-year old marriage, etc. You believe it which makes people angry.
Ashura (the holiday Shias celebrate) has people crying for a man who died thousands of years ago. I walk into a Mosque and everyone is crying for a death of some man who has long been dead(W T F ?). They even refuse to celebrate their kids birthday on this week because of someone who died years ago.
The problem with you and the world is I made my decisions myself. No book has ever told me what to believe in. The Quran has guided me, but it did not control my life. You have been told what to believe in. You were not handed a Quran and told to make up your own mind. Everyone has questions about the Quran. It is hard to understand. That is why you ask an elder who knows about the Quran. Whoever you asked gave you so fd up translation.
Please do not think your Pakistani view on Islam is how the rest of the Muslims think.
I will be the first Muslim on this thread to say it. Muslim = dangerous religion. It can be very peaceful and such a lovely religion to follow. It is a book of poetry. It is dangerous because different Mosque/Countries will preach to you different opinions of Islam. Egypt is a Muslim country. Christian, Jews go there every year. There are no problems because the government and the people believe in a peaceful Islamic state and are more than generous with Christians, etc. Turkey believes in their own version of the Quran and it has implemented it all around the country (You make fun of France for banning the headscarf. Did you know Turkey was the first country to do so?). Iran has a permanent Jewish member in their cabinet (You defend Iran?s government. The people are against it and you still support them). UAE, Dubai, Kuwait are countries where a Jew can visit and not feel threatened. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan are danger zones. They have created an evil religion.
Islam is not new. It has been around for a long time. Yet the world is facing a serious problem with it today. Because of the three countries I list above. It's not the governments. It's the people of those countries. I have no idea how to change it so don't ask.
I am not saying every Pakistani/Saudi Arabian is a terrorist. What you believe is not terror. You are not a terrorist. You do believe in an extreme version of the Quran and anything extreme is not good.
I dont know what to argue with you. There's nothing about this post that is relevant to the subject of this thread, nor does it have anything to do with Islam.
I dont consider the West to be decadent. In fact, I consider it to be the center of learning, advancement, invention, etc. Women in America can dress as they please, I have never, nor have the intention to go and tell them to cover up. Many Muslim women in America and the West choose to cover themselves up and they are contributing members of the Western society. France, Germany, America are all examples of this. So your statement about my considering women to be wearing skirts as "objects" has exactly what relevance? It is my opinion. Are you saying you dont lust after attractive, semi-clad women?
Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Eqypt, Pakistan, all have very high quality of education. I chose to come study in the States. Many doctors in the United States are of Middle Eastern or South Asian origin. Many engineers have also received their education from these states. Have you ever been to any of these countries? How do you judge the quaility of education in these countries? Is my English grammar poor? I learned all of it in Pakistan. I am multilingual. I exceeded my American colleagues in my education here. I am not saying this to toot my own horn, but I am just giving you an example of good educational system existing in Muslim nations as well.
As I said before, every civilization has its rise and fall. The fall of the Muslim civilization is far from over, and it may someday rise back to its previous glorious days. Rome wasnt built in a day. The glory of the Muslim people has come to pass, I accept that. That does not mean you start hating or denouncing the people.
So according to you, Muslim Asians have done somethings "remotely civilized". Is this a discrimination trend against the Arab Muslims? I dont even see a point being made here.
Public practice of idolatory is prohibited under Islamic Law. If a statue is being used as a site of worship, it is to be destroyed. I have not heard of a ban on genetic research in Muslim countries. In fact, many Muslim nations use genetically modified seeds for their crops. Discouragement of space travel is such a ridiculous charge, I think I would be equally stupid to try and refute it.
If you read the Quran, you would know Sunnah is an integral part of Islamic Law. The Quran says so explicitly.
I dont care what Arab/Muslim nations do. I said in my original post not to mix Islamic Law with cultural and traditional practices of Arab/Muslim nations. Despite having repeated that statement a number of times, you fail to register that in your mind.
All you know about the Taliban is what you've read on websites and books living within the borders of the USA oceans away from that region. I have lived in that region most of my life. You have no understanding of the ground reality present in that region. That nation did not have FOOD to feed its people, over a million people were refugees in Pakistan, more than a million were killed by Soviet occupation forces, the Cold War was won by the blood of Afghanis. After a decade of occupation, and another decade of civil war, you expect a central government which is able to monitor every single vice in the country, and that too within 5 years of actually taking the helm of the country, under extreme sanctions. When your brother, sister, mother or father gets blown to bits by a Hind helicopter or land mines, and then you can remain in a civilized state of mind, then complain about the Taliban. You dont even have the comprehension that the Taliban was a POPULAR student movement, not a religious oligarchy. People like you on this forum can have their three meals a day, and McDonald's Big Macs and pose judgment on people who dont have clean drinking water and a blanket to protect them from the cold weather. All you do is talk about education, oppression of women, strict Islamic law, while the Afghans werent able to feed themselves. You think the Afghans were concerned about going to school when they couldnt even get enough to fill their stomachs?
Who cares if your Afghan friends voted for Bush? What does this have to do with Islam? Does Islam say you cannot vote for Bush? Your incessant claims that I loved the Taliban are getting really old. Didnt reading the Quran teach you not to lie?
Your fact that Pakistan is an exteme country without any basis is ridiculous. Memorization of the Quran is a great blessing. My youngest brother is a Hafiz - who has memorized the Quran. He never read the Quran for 15 hours a day. Your false charges have no ending. You keep on touting these claims and you provide no evidence whatsoever, and everytime I refute them, you conveniently ignore the refutations. Who disrespected my mother in Pakistan? No one. What garbage. When were you ever present in Pakistan to witness all these women who were being "disrespected"? Pakistan has had a female head of state. Can you say the same about the United States? A few people selling t-shirts with a face on it to make money does not translate into extremism. How stupid. I saw Osama bin Laden wooble head figures here in the United States. Thats extremism?
I dont care what Klixxxer says or does. He's an insulting, rude person who's primary involvement in the forums is in threads regarding Islam and has hardly ever anything good to say about it. His lack of knowledge and his wild interpretations of my statements have no bearing on me.
I have never supported killing of children. This is another example of your incessant lying. I had addressed that issue in a PM to you. An adulteror/fornicator is to be punished for the crime, be it my own child. That was my statement. For the punishment to be carried out, the person committing the crime has to be a consenting adult, and has to be found GUILTY. Islam allows marriage of a physically, mentally and sexually mature individual, be it 1 month old or 100 years old. The Prophet (S.A) example is in front of you. You just choose to ignore it, even when given proof. I really dont care if I make people angry. I dont follow Islam to please people, I follow it to please God.
Ashura is part of Shia theology. They mourn the loss of an individual who they highly revere. If you dont like it, you dont mourn. You not following the Shia theology is another sign of your lack of beliefs in whatever weird thing you supposedly practice. By the way, you asked this before, I am not a Shia.
You can make your own decisions yourself, but do not brand it Islam. Islam governs every aspect of a Muslim's life. It is a guidance for every aspect of your life. The Muslims believe that Quran is the literal word of God, and one other Muslim in this thread has confirmed this belief. If you care to pick and choose and make your own decisions about what to follow and what not to follow what God tells you to do, then you can start your own faith/religion. Islam is not about being selfish and picking out material which suits to your own lifestyle. Here is Quran's own words:
Muslim is not a religion. Islam is. It is a very peaceful and lovely religion and is dangerous when people like you full of misinformation, who pick and choose what to follow and corrupt its entire teachings.
You again give big examples of different countries doing different things, something I have repeatedly asked everyone not to do. Their actions may NOT be in conformance with Islamic Law.
Everything I believe is the Quran and the Sunnah. I have backed up all my statements with proper references to the Quran, Sunnah or the opinions of leading scholars of Islam. You on the other hand produce wild, extreme accusations, concepts and claims with no substance or proof whatsoever.
I suggest you visit your local mosque and have a long conversation with your mosque's Imam about Islam.
I know you're Afghan/Pakistan/Saudi Arabian.
Allah is not going to punish me. For what? For having an open mind?
BTW: welcome to anandtech. Who are you really?
lol hi aimster.
nope, i'm none of those. i'm american
who am i ? who am III?? I am the great and powerful...MUSHUUU
hehehe, jk
i'm from mass, born and raised where i spent most of ma days...(i love fresh prince of belllair does this forum have a general introductions part? cuz that would be nice)
well not for an open mind, i'm all for having an open mind
the thing is you cant disregard the sunnah, its an integral part of islam. how do you learn how to pray just by reading quaran. u NEED the sunnah to interpret the quaran. and alhumdullilah the sunnah has been preserved so well. the prophet muhammad saw was a teacher for all mankind and dissing the sunnah is dissing the prophet. astaghfirullah.
may allah guide the ummah.
anyhoo, eid mubarak y'all
nope, i'm none of those. i'm american
who am i ? who am III?? I am the great and powerful...MUSHUUU
hehehe, jk
i'm from mass, born and raised where i spent most of ma days...(i love fresh prince of belllair
does this forum have a general introductions part? cuz that would be nice)well not for an open mind, i'm all for having an open mind
the thing is you cant disregard the sunnah, its an integral part of islam. how do you learn how to pray just by reading quaran. u NEED the sunnah to interpret the quaran. and alhumdullilah the sunnah has been preserved so well. the prophet muhammad saw was a teacher for all mankind and dissing the sunnah is dissing the prophet. astaghfirullah.
may allah guide the ummah.
anyhoo, eid mubarak y'all
When I saw "The Islamic Thread" I thought it said, "The Islamic Threat". This is how it is. A few bad apples have made a world encompassing religion seem to be psycho killers. Everytime religion has gone to extremes many people have died. Look at the first wave of Islam, and the Crusades. I'm sure there's many more examples. Islam is not the problem. It's extremism.
-green
-green
hi peeps
i just wanted to say a few words about hijab. i'm a hijabi. i started wearing it when i was really young, about 10 years old, not becuase my parents wanted me to, not becuase of peer pressure, but becuase i wanted to. now i may not have completely understood hijab, but i do now, and am so glad that i started
i wear hijab becuase its fardh (obligatory). Allah swt has commanded hijab for women and so i obey. i want to do the best i can to emulate the prophet, and from him i know that it is best to be as if i was a traveller in a desert taking a short rest in the shade of a tree. this life is soo short compared to eternity. so yea obeying Allah :thumbsup:
everything allah swt commands us to do has a reason. he does not make religion difficult for us. he loves us, we are his special creation i love wearing hijab. i feel protected. and i love the respect i get from people. any guy who sees me is so respectful. for them its like "woah, this woman wants to be taken for who she is, now what she looks like" and then they just respect you. alhumdullilah its awesome
hmm there's more i can say but i cant think properly cuz its late and i'm tired but yea iA i'll add to this later
byee
i just wanted to say a few words about hijab. i'm a hijabi. i started wearing it when i was really young, about 10 years old, not becuase my parents wanted me to, not becuase of peer pressure, but becuase i wanted to. now i may not have completely understood hijab, but i do now, and am so glad that i started
i wear hijab becuase its fardh (obligatory). Allah swt has commanded hijab for women and so i obey. i want to do the best i can to emulate the prophet, and from him i know that it is best to be as if i was a traveller in a desert taking a short rest in the shade of a tree. this life is soo short compared to eternity. so yea obeying Allah :thumbsup:
everything allah swt commands us to do has a reason. he does not make religion difficult for us. he loves us, we are his special creation
i love wearing hijab. i feel protected. and i love the respect i get from people. any guy who sees me is so respectful. for them its like "woah, this woman wants to be taken for who she is, now what she looks like" and then they just respect you. alhumdullilah its awesome hmm there's more i can say but i cant think properly cuz its late and i'm tired but yea iA i'll add to this later
byee
hi green.
the crusades werent reallly about religion. i mean it sorta was, but it was more due to economic and political reasons. especially the later crusades...the people who actually lived in crusade land were like NOOO DOOONT COME FIGHT HERE!!! but no, the european kings and the popes wanted a holy war and fame and money. oh and the knights HAD to go on a holy war at least once in their lifetime cuz of the "code of chivalry" so yea...the crusader states might have had some religious issues, but nothing so big as to inspire the multiple crusades. Professor Bachman ( forgot his first name
) wrote a really good book about the crusades. I love professor bachman. he's awesome Originally posted by: nafs
hi peeps
i just wanted to say a few words about hijab. i'm a hijabi. i started wearing it when i was really young, about 10 years old, not becuase my parents wanted me to, not becuase of peer pressure, but becuase i wanted to. now i may not have completely understood hijab, but i do now, and am so glad that i started
i wear hijab becuase its fardh (obligatory). Allah swt has commanded hijab for women and so i obey. i want to do the best i can to emulate the prophet, and from him i know that it is best to be as if i was a traveller in a desert taking a short rest in the shade of a tree. this life is soo short compared to eternity. so yea obeying Allah :thumbsup:
everything allah swt commands us to do has a reason. he does not make religion difficult for us. he loves us, we are his special creation
hmm there's more i can say but i cant think properly cuz its late and i'm tired but yea iA i'll add to this later
byee
If you like wearing it and you truely believe in it then, :thumbsup:
duh! obviously, when you're comparing economic powerhouses to third world countries.
Schools of repute such as LUMS, AKUH, King Fahad, etc, etc exist in Muslim nations which also offer a high quality education. Obviously they dont compare to a three hundred year old university with an endowment of over a billion a year.
Please dont crap in this thread. This thread is meant to provide information regarding Islamic Lawa, not educational capabilities of different nations.
Then they really don't have a very high quality of education. I'm simply correcting and clarifying your own statement.
Nothing beats the education of the U.S. My parents both came to the U.S when Shah was still in power in Iran. They got their education here and have never returned back. Same with my dad's brothers and mom's brother/sisters. The west has a great education system and a better way of life.
I did not compare the quality of education with any other nation or make it relative to any other nation. My statement is fine. It did not need correction, nor clarification. You can form your own comparisons and disagree if you so wish. No one judges the quality of education in the United States by picking Harvard. Neither did I say these countries have the "highest of all" quality of education.
Please dont contribute to this thread if you wish to argue about nonsensical issues. We've done that plenty in other threads. This thread is meant to be an informative resource about Islamic law, and a source for people to learn about the religion, not debate on the lcorrectness of a SINGLE statement from an entire post.
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