The Democratic Party Continues to Ignore Reality

[dank69]

I don't understand what you're arguing. Higgins said Sanders called for regime change, and then you said he was a liar for it, and then posted a link supporting the very thing he said. Unilateral US action has nothing to do with it.



Weren't we just talking about how we shouldn't be doing what Sanders says just because he's popular? Are we not able to connect the dots between the disastrous crime bill, the resulting incarceration rates, and devastation to poor and working class communities? We're going to excuse that away as a "politician with his ear to public opinion"?



The problem with this construction is that it only works in a fantasy world where everyone who is eligible to vote votes, and every voter makes a rational decision in the booth, based on the policies that the candidates are likely to support. The reality is that many people (and I'm not talking about the "class anxious" Trump voters) have been so devastated by the American economy in the last 40 years that they're no longer politically engaged. The girls behind the counter at Taco Bell, the guys that work at Home Depot. The Uber drivers that can't afford to move out of their parents' basement. The 30% of high school graduates that don't have to worry about the college debt crisis because they never went to college in the first place, and face the worst job and life prospects ever facing working class Americans.

You think these people care about climate change, Citizens United, cap gains tax rates, etc.? The problem with pushing the party further and further to the right to capture moderate Republicans that are turned off by the extremists is that it doesn't work, (they still vote Republican anyway) and it alienates your base.

I am certainly not advocating that Democrats move right to capture independents. The reality is that it doesn't matter what Democrats do, they will be blamed for all of life's problems. This is why I advise all Democrats to get out of the way and let it happen. Americans are not worth saving.

 

[dank69]

You just named the very problem. Fighting for what you already have, and not what you need.
There's a more united platform out there waiting to be utilized. It's a bold economic message.
And it strikes to the heart of trickle down.

We shouldn't have to fight trickle down. It should have been dead for 15 years now. The fact that there are so many people that still think trickle down is the way or that there are any issues more important is just evidence that Americans are a lost cause.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I am certainly not advocating that Democrats move right to capture independents. The reality is that it doesn't matter what Democrats do, they will be blamed for all of life's problems. This is why I advise all Democrats to get out of the way and let it happen. Americans are not worth saving.

Ha! Do you mean the Americans who think they're Americans for electing an adolescent, intellectually-crippled, sociopathic asshole?

Or everybody else -- whom the first group and their Fearless Leader refuse to acknowledge?

 

[dank69]

Ha! Do you mean the Americans who think they're Americans for electing an adolescent, intellectually-crippled, sociopathic asshole?

Or everybody else -- whom the first group and their Fearless Leader refuse to acknowledge?

Your groupings are wrong. The two groups are those that actively fight to keep every GOP politician out of office, and everyone else. The first group should be willing to suffer for as long as it takes for the GOP cancer to burn itself out to the point that no independent is left that is stupid enough to ever consider voting for them.

 

[Jaskalas]

...but Democrats need all the stars to align to vote for their self interest.

Democrat self interest is not in hating Republicans or parading around special interests. It's in building a new economic majority. You don't need the stars to align, you just need to stop holding back. Nothing appealing in asking for help and being told no, "We're Capitalists". You don't lead people by following the status quo and chasing votes you already have. Trump is the result on not rallying and energizing the base with a message.

And it's not just the Presidency. We're talking a revolution and that's not something you can dip your toe in and ask permission for. Leadership means telling the voters what they want. It means showing them. It means recruiting them to hope again. You don't sit back and follow the establishment's losing position. You usurp them, and then the nation.

Can't be done? Ask Obama in '08. Can't be done? Ask Trump in '16. This is a time for change and no meek, middling message of balance is going to sell to the public. One must go big, go bold, or go home. People will believe in an answer, you just have to give them one. It's that passion that was missing. Do you have any idea what it feels like to watch Inequality For All and agree with an "enemy" whose message is indisputable truth? It's time to make that appeal to the nation as a party that "gets it".

First step is admitting that, even in defeat, Sanders was right. It's time to get on board.

 

[agent00f]

Democrat self interest is not in hating Republicans or parading around special interests.

Rather hilarious you pretend to admire obama while completely dismissing his entire political strategy of herding said interests. Worth nothing he also promised labor/progressives the moon while implementing clintonite policy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I am certainly not advocating that Democrats move right to capture independents. The reality is that it doesn't matter what Democrats do, they will be blamed for all of life's problems. This is why I advise all Democrats to get out of the way and let it happen. Americans are not worth saving.

Well Dems can rerun Hillary in 2020 and yell at voters for not being smart enough to pick what their betters tell them to, but that didn't work out well did it? But I'm not in total disagreement. We should let the Dems look down their long noses and practice divisionist tactics and let the Reps continue along their bizarre course. Hopefully both will burn and from the ashes something better arise.

 

[Jaskalas]

Rather hilarious you pretend to admire obama while completely dismissing his entire political strategy of herding said interests. Worth nothing he also promised labor/progressives the moon while implementing clintonite policy.

You dismiss the tone and emotional appeal of the '08 campaign. And policy is limited by those who stand or don't stand with you in Congress / across the nation. Who denies that Obama was obstructed? We're not calling for a Presidential election, we're calling for a party to step up, shape up, and get with the program. It's a national movement, a revolution, that's needed to form a new economic majority.

"We're Capitalists" is the Republican attack on social safety nets. Then why was it spoken by the Democrat Congressional leader?
This is a push for deep and meaningful change. To live up to the promise of '08, the appeal that last won an election.

 

[dank69]

Well Dems can rerun Hillary in 2020 and yell at voters for not being smart enough to pick what their betters tell them to, but that didn't work out well did it? But I'm not in total disagreement. We should let the Dems look down their long noses and practice divisionist tactics and let the Reps continue along their bizarre course. Hopefully both will burn and from the ashes something better arise.

Yes you have certainly captured the Democrats' message accurately. Not a day goes by where I don't read a headline showing a Democrat saying voters aren't smart enough to pick what their betters tell them to. It's funny because even though you aren't blind enough to miss how fucked up Trump is you are still fighting the phantom liberals that live in your head like a good conservative should.

 

[dank69]

You dismiss the tone and emotional appeal of the '08 campaign. And policy is limited by those who stand or don't stand with you in Congress / across the nation. Who denies that Obama was obstructed? We're not calling for a Presidential election, we're calling for a party to step up, shape up, and get with the program. It's a national movement, a revolution, that's needed to form a new economic majority.

"We're Capitalists" is the Republican attack on social safety nets. Then why was it spoken by the Democrat Congressional leader?
This is a push for deep and meaningful change. To live up to the promise of '08, the appeal that last won an election.

Who denies that Obama was obstructed? Just about every conservative on the planet. Haven't you heard? Democrats are the obstructionists. They are obstructing at unprecedented levels which is why the righteous GOP had to remove the filibuster.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yes you have certainly captured the Democrats' message accurately. Not a day goes by where I don't read a headline showing a Democrat saying voters aren't smart enough to pick what their betters tell them to. It's funny because even though you aren't blind enough to miss how fucked up Trump is you are still fighting the phantom liberals that live in your head like a good conservative should.

Lemme see. Conservatives are people who wanted Bernie, think Trump and the Republicans are idiots, and despise how they are running things. Speaking of blind I post comments that show I detest Trump just about every day in some way. Notice the pro Trump threads I start? Oops, they must have been magically deleted except for your eyes only. But you sure seem to be a Dem and behaving badly towards people who don't support Trump but didn't like Hillary. I dare you to make less sense.

 

[dank69]

Lemme see. Conservatives are people who wanted Bernie, think Trump and the Republicans are idiots, and despise how they are running things. Speaking of blind I post comments that show I detest Trump just about every day in some way. Notice the pro Trump threads I start? Oops, they must have been magically deleted except for your eyes only. But you sure seem to be a Dem and behaving badly towards people who don't support Trump but didn't like Hillary. I dare you to make less sense.

Maybe you should re-read my post before you decide to rant against me. I clearly acknowledged that you know Trump is an idiot.

You don't magically stop being a conservative just because you wanted Bernie and/or think Trump and the Republicans are idiots. What makes you a conservative is some combination of the policies you support and your illogical hatred of liberals/Democrats.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Maybe you should re-read my post before you decide to rant against me. I clearly acknowledged that you know Trump is an idiot.

You don't magically stop being a conservative just because you wanted Bernie and/or think Trump and the Republicans are idiots. What makes you a conservative is some combination of the policies you support and your illogical hatred of liberals/Democrats.

What policies do I explicitly support?

 

[dank69]

What policies do I explicitly support?

How the fuck should I know? I am keying off your irrational hatred of Democrats. That is what makes you a conservative to me. If you had rational issues with them it would be one thing. Then I'd accept your claim to be independent. Until then, you are just a disenfranchised Republican.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How the fuck should I know? I am keying off your irrational hatred of Democrats. That is what makes you a conservative to me. If you had rational issues with them it would be one thing. Then I'd accept your claim to be independent. Until then, you are just a disenfranchised Republican.

So you have the "feels". That Hillary couldn't connect with voters in key states as in the rust belt who seems to be ignorant degenerates to some who side with Dems. Dems picked the candidate who could lose against Trump and so either he is superior to the Dems or the Dems have their heads up their ass, at least the partisans. The Republicans suck. I've said they suck. I haven't endorsed their stance on abortion because I don't. The environment? Taxes? Social programs? So called health care? Nada. But I don't like how Dems have handled things regarding the election and that makes my a good little conservative. How fucked up is that?

I don't embrace any party although my personal philosophy often align with the Left, especially now, being A FUCKING BERNIE SUPPORTER AND YOU HAVE KNOWN THAT FOR A LONG TIME. What fucking Conservative does that? But I don't agree with everything the left does either. I look at a subject and try to find the best path through it but I don't let Hillary F. Clinton or Dems or Nutjob Trump and the Republican clown car influence me as they have you. Geebus Tapdancing Christ on a bike, stop being a bitter sore loser who attacks everyone who doesn't agree with you even if every fucking thing they embrace goes against the Republican "rape the lower classes and leave 'em" ideals.

Hopefully you find my expression of my personal perspectives helpful in reformulating your errors in political judgement of others.

 

[mect]

I think democrats have forgotten where there strength lies. Republicans strength is in the old, white demographic. This group is pretty easy to get out to vote. The democrats strength is in the youth. Clinton was not able to appeal to the youth. The youth are not scared by terms like socialism. The younger generation is trying to figure out how things are going to work in a world where jobs are being displaced by technology at a rate never seen in the history of the world, and they recognize that capitalism alone is not equipped to deal with this world. Its important to remember that Trump didn't win because of how many votes he received, but rather how few Clinton received. I don't know if Sanders could have won or not. He certainly would have lost other groups compared to Clinton, but there is no doubt that he would have energized the younger voters at a level that Clinton wasn't able to. Clinton's message just didn't resonate with this group. Yes, Sanders had serious issues. I'm also concerned about this isolationist slant America seems to be on economically. But I think the democrats are going to have a challenge reconciling the traditional democratic party with the newer generation coming up. And simply telling these people to get on board or else they're the problem isn't going to solve anything.

 

[dank69]

So you have the "feels". That Hillary couldn't connect with voters in key states as in the rust belt who seems to be ignorant degenerates to some who side with Dems. Dems picked the candidate who could lose against Trump and so either he is superior to the Dems or the Dems have their heads up their ass, at least the partisans.

Right because to you it is more plausible that Democrats are at fault instead of the electorate. An electorate that actively voted for Trump, a man you acknowledge is a fucking con man. A con man so bad that anyone with two brain cells to rub together could spot it from a mile away. Irrational hatred of Democrats found.

The Republicans suck. I've said they suck. I haven't endorsed their stance on abortion because I don't. The environment? Taxes? Social programs? So called health care? Nada. But I don't like how Dems have handled things regarding the election and that makes my a good little conservative. How fucked up is that?

What makes you a good little conservative is that your criticisms of Democrats are irrational. Period. It doesn't matter to you that you can't articulate a good criticism of Democrats where the GOP is far worse, just must criticize the Democrats as if they are just as bad. You cannot admit that Democrats are better than Republicans across the board because that would be admitting that liberals are better, so you invent ways that Democrats are bad and when you can't invent your own you regurgitate standard conservative talking point straw men.

I don't embrace any party although my personal philosophy often align with the Left, especially now, being A FUCKING BERNIE SUPPORTER AND YOU HAVE KNOWN THAT FOR A LONG TIME. What fucking Conservative does that?

LOTS OF CONSERVATIVES JUMPED ON THE BERNIE TRAIN because a lot of his policies make so much sense and are long overdue. Lots of Republicans are disenfranchised just like you and they are grasping for something, anything, that is not Democrats because DEMOCRATS ARE EVIL AND NOTHING THEY SAY OR DO WILL CHANGE MY MIND ON THAT I'LL FUCKING DIE FIRST BEFORE EVER ADMITTING IT. So they turn to libertarians and socialists masquerading as Democrats TO PROVE HOW NOT CONSERVATIVE THEY ARE LOL.

But I don't agree with everything the left does either. I look at a subject and try to find the best path through it but I don't let Hillary F. Clinton or Dems or Nutjob Trump and the Republican clown car influence me as they have you. Geebus Tapdancing Christ on a bike, stop being a bitter sore loser who attacks everyone who doesn't agree with you even if every fucking thing they embrace goes against the Republican "rape the lower classes and leave 'em" ideals.

Hopefully you find my expression of my personal perspectives helpful in reformulating your errors in political judgement of others.

Hopefully you can begin to understand the psychology behind why you do what you do. Haha, only kidding. Hillary must be controlling my mind or something.

 

[Jhhnn]

So you have the "feels". That Hillary couldn't connect with voters in key states as in the rust belt who seems to be ignorant degenerates to some who side with Dems. Dems picked the candidate who could lose against Trump and so either he is superior to the Dems or the Dems have their heads up their ass, at least the partisans. The Republicans suck. I've said they suck. I haven't endorsed their stance on abortion because I don't. The environment? Taxes? Social programs? So called health care? Nada. But I don't like how Dems have handled things regarding the election and that makes my a good little conservative. How fucked up is that?

I don't embrace any party although my personal philosophy often align with the Left, especially now, being A FUCKING BERNIE SUPPORTER AND YOU HAVE KNOWN THAT FOR A LONG TIME. What fucking Conservative does that? But I don't agree with everything the left does either. I look at a subject and try to find the best path through it but I don't let Hillary F. Clinton or Dems or Nutjob Trump and the Republican clown car influence me as they have you. Geebus Tapdancing Christ on a bike, stop being a bitter sore loser who attacks everyone who doesn't agree with you even if every fucking thing they embrace goes against the Republican "rape the lower classes and leave 'em" ideals.

Hopefully you find my expression of my personal perspectives helpful in reformulating your errors in political judgement of others.

"Bitter sore losers" describes all too many Bernie supporters rather well, including you. It's a big part of the reason Trump is Prez.

 

[Indus]

"Bitter sore losers" describes all too many Bernie supporters rather well, including you. It's a big part of the reason Trump is Prez.

I never thought I'd say this, but you better believe it is because of them that he's president. Without them there is no victory, only Trumpenstien.

The faster you learn this, the faster you can get rid of Trumpenstien.

Ignore them at your own peril. And that's what Hildabeast did.

The votes were there but she didn't care about them and didn't cater to them and they stayed home.

They would have turned out in droves for Bernie.

 

[theeedude]

Democrat self interest is not in hating Republicans or parading around special interests. It's in building a new economic majority. You don't need the stars to align, you just need to stop holding back. Nothing appealing in asking for help and being told no, "We're Capitalists". You don't lead people by following the status quo and chasing votes you already have. Trump is the result on not rallying and energizing the base with a message.

And it's not just the Presidency. We're talking a revolution and that's not something you can dip your toe in and ask permission for. Leadership means telling the voters what they want. It means showing them. It means recruiting them to hope again. You don't sit back and follow the establishment's losing position. You usurp them, and then the nation.

Can't be done? Ask Obama in '08. Can't be done? Ask Trump in '16. This is a time for change and no meek, middling message of balance is going to sell to the public. One must go big, go bold, or go home. People will believe in an answer, you just have to give them one. It's that passion that was missing. Do you have any idea what it feels like to watch Inequality For All and agree with an "enemy" whose message is indisputable truth? It's time to make that appeal to the nation as a party that "gets it".

First step is admitting that, even in defeat, Sanders was right. It's time to get on board.

We are capitalists. The goal of the Democratic party is not to turn the US into Venezuela, nor should it be. The goal is to tax capitalist activity to provide for those left behind.
You need to be sold on voting for your own self interest? Well, then enjoy others voting against it and winning.

 

[dank69]

I never thought I'd say this, but you better believe it is because of them that he's president. Without them there is no victory, only Trumpenstien.

The faster you learn this, the faster you can get rid of Trumpenstien.

Ignore them at your own peril. And that's what Hildabeast did.

The votes were there but she didn't care about them and didn't cater to them and they stayed home.

They would have turned out in droves for Bernie.

A lot of the Bernie supporters I know all hated Hillary for all the same reasons that conservatives hate her. And what do you know? All the reasons turned out to be highly irrational and/or purely fake. Funny how just like conservatives, instead of admitting they were fooled they blame Hillary for not "reaching out to them." Never mind that she basically adopted Bernie's entire platform. That wasn't reaching out to them or working with them. That was pandering ... or something something reasons. They know this because they are mind readers. They have to be mind readers because if they aren't they have to admit they fell for all the lies.

 

[Bowfinger]

I never thought I'd say this, but you better believe it is because of them that he's president. Without them there is no victory, only Trumpenstien.

The faster you learn this, the faster you can get rid of Trumpenstien.

Ignore them at your own peril. And that's what Hildabeast did.

The votes were there but she didn't care about them and didn't cater to them and they stayed home.

They would have turned out in droves for Bernie.

It's not only that, but that some of Clinton's most rabid supporters were dicks that went out of their way to mock and deride Sanders supporters. The wholly predictable result is many of those Sanders supporters responded with a big F U and either voted third party or stayed home. At least Clinton understood this and made some attempt to reach out to Sanders supporters. Too many of her fan boys didn't.

 

[Jaskalas]

and they recognize that capitalism alone is not equipped to deal with this world.

Proper social safety nets and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. They compliment each other quite well.
Capitalism depends on the consumers, it perfectly makes sense that we ensure their healthy participation.

 

[dank69]

Proper social safety nets and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. They compliment each other quite well.
Capitalism depends on the consumers, it perfectly makes sense that we ensure their healthy participation.

Then why the fuck are you attacking Democrats for defending against the claim that they are anti-capitalist?

 

[Jhhnn]

A lot of the Bernie supporters I know all hated Hillary for all the same reasons that conservatives hate her. And what do you know? All the reasons turned out to be highly irrational and/or purely fake. Funny how just like conservatives, instead of admitting they were fooled they blame Hillary for not "reaching out to them." Never mind that she basically adopted Bernie's entire platform. That wasn't reaching out to them or working with them. That was pandering ... or something something reasons. They know this because they are mind readers. They have to be mind readers because if they aren't they have to admit they fell for all the lies.

Bernie supporters got trolled. They chanted to same bullshit talking points as the Repubs.The sooner they figure it out the better off the Democratic party will be.

Bernie's people were given unprecedented input to the platform, the most progressive ever-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...01687974517_story.html?utm_term=.2518e7f6f73a

Like Trumpsters, unfortunately, facts didn't matter & still don't to all too many of them. They're still getting trolled, even trolling themselves in truly perverse ways.