The Democratic Party Continues to Ignore Reality

[Hayabusa Rider]

Right because to you it is more plausible that Democrats are at fault instead of the electorate. An electorate that actively voted for Trump, a man you acknowledge is a fucking con man. A con man so bad that anyone with two brain cells to rub together could spot it from a mile away. Irrational hatred of Democrats found.

What makes you a good little conservative is that your criticisms of Democrats are irrational. Period. It doesn't matter to you that you can't articulate a good criticism of Democrats where the GOP is far worse, just must criticize the Democrats as if they are just as bad. You cannot admit that Democrats are better than Republicans across the board because that would be admitting that liberals are better, so you invent ways that Democrats are bad and when you can't invent your own you regurgitate standard conservative talking point straw men.

LOTS OF CONSERVATIVES JUMPED ON THE BERNIE TRAIN because a lot of his policies make so much sense and are long overdue. Lots of Republicans are disenfranchised just like you and they are grasping for something, anything, that is not Democrats because DEMOCRATS ARE EVIL AND NOTHING THEY SAY OR DO WILL CHANGE MY MIND ON THAT I'LL FUCKING DIE FIRST BEFORE EVER ADMITTING IT. So they turn to libertarians and socialists masquerading as Democrats TO PROVE HOW NOT CONSERVATIVE THEY ARE LOL.

Hopefully you can begin to understand the psychology behind why you do what you do. Haha, only kidding. Hillary must be controlling my mind or something.

The psychology was pretty much a matter of fun on my part and poking at you, but Dems lost the race to Trump. Seriously? You keep inventing strawmen galore. The thing I've been hammering on is the shortsightedness of their leadership. For this I'm a good little conservative. Nothing to do with ideology, positions or absolutely anything else. I Insulted Hillary and the people who could not see the perils she presented. Democrats are evil. Well there's surely some who are but the majority no. Kills "I"LL FUCKING DIE FIRST" down in flames. Did I say the electorate wasn't responsible for picking Trump? Nope. Just that I thought the Dem choice was foolish and the campaign was as bad as they could come up with. That's why you hate. Your tin goddess wasn't fallen down and worshipped. The audacity of the peasants, for surely you think of anyone who didn't think like you as being as lowly.

I said I would have loved to have Biden. Oops, a true blue conventional Democrat. I'm not a Dem nor am I a Socialist because I don't think in teeny tiny terms. I picked Bernie because he was the only genuine candidate as demonstrated by how he lived and that he gave two fucks. He wouldn't have implemented socialism but he would have the bully pulpit and maybe shame the partisans into doing something major and creative.

There's another thing. I don't care that people think I'm a conservative or a liberal, but stupid is annoying. It's like listening to those who think Obama is a Kenyan. It doesn't matter that he was born here, because some didn't like him he was. So feel free to create a fiction based on bizarro world Trumpian reasoning, but it ain't gonna get you far here.

Hate me. It's all you have left and I am sorry you have decided to become a smaller person to the point of ignoring everything to cling to your Precious.

 

[soulcougher73]

A lot of the Bernie supporters I know all hated Hillary for all the same reasons that conservatives hate her. And what do you know? All the reasons turned out to be highly irrational and/or purely fake. Funny how just like conservatives, instead of admitting they were fooled they blame Hillary for not "reaching out to them." Never mind that she basically adopted Bernie's entire platform. That wasn't reaching out to them or working with them. That was pandering ... or something something reasons. They know this because they are mind readers. They have to be mind readers because if they aren't they have to admit they fell for all the lies.

You sure have turned into an angry, blind, irrational DEM supporter. You should seek help since this last election. It's obviously knocked some screws loose of what used to be a decent poster on this forum.

 

[Blackjack200]

Has it ever been shown that a significant portion of Sanders voters didn't vote for Clinton, or even went to Trump? I find that really hard to believe. I only know of one Sanders supporter that didn't vote for Clinton, and he would never have voted for Clinton (didn't vote for Obama either).

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

"Bitter sore losers" describes all too many Bernie supporters rather well, including you. It's a big part of the reason Trump is Prez.

Not bitter at all. More sad and disappointed at the complete lack of understanding people, like those who think it's "their" fault exclusively, folks like you. You thought people would bow and take anything and so the most uninspiring person you could come up went ran. That is not our fault but it is your share of the responsibility. I know you can't understand this, but some will.

 

[Bowfinger]

"Bitter sore losers" describes all too many Bernie supporters rather well, including you. It's a big part of the reason Trump is Prez.

That's no doubt true, at least to an extent, but it's rather superficial. Why are so many of them so bitter? It's not just because they lost, but also because of how they were treated while getting there. Too many Clinton fans, people just like you, treated them as the enemy rather than as fellow liberals with slightly different views. Instead of working with them, you actively, arrogantly alienated them, and now bitch that they took their balls and went home. Was that a self-destructive move on their part? Yes. But, it was a very human, predictable response to your behavior.

You reap what you sow. I warned you a year ago that this was what you were sowing. Trump is your harvest.

 

[Blackjack200]

You sure have turned into an angry, blind, irrational DEM supporter. You should seek help since this last election. It's obviously knocked some screws loose of what used to be a decent poster on this forum.

I mean, it's hard to blame someone for being upset when their republic is being dismantled in front of their eyes. Like, we literally had a comedian on TV last night, crying and asking the GOP to please not kill children.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's no doubt true, at least to an extent, but it's rather superficial. Why are so many of them so bitter? It's not just because they lost, but also because of how they were treated while getting there. Too many Clinton fans, people just like you, treated them as the enemy rather than as fellow liberals with slightly different views. Instead of working with them, you actively, arrogantly alienated them, and now bitch that they took their balls and went home. Was that a self-destructive move on their part? Yes. But, it was a very human, predictable response to your behavior.

You reap what you sow. I warned you a year ago that this was what you were sowing. Trump is your harvest.

Bullshit. That flies in the face of the facts, that Dems adopted the most progressive platform ever. Bernie's supporters got trolled hard, and fell for it. You still refuse to recognize that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Has it ever been shown that a significant portion of Sanders voters didn't vote for Clinton, or even went to Trump? I find that really hard to believe. I only know of one Sanders supporter that didn't vote for Clinton, and he would never have voted for Clinton (didn't vote for Obama either).

From what I read many stayed away from the polls, some made a protest for Trump but the majority of voting Sanders supporters picked the lesser of evils as they saw it, Hillary.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not bitter at all. More sad and disappointed at the complete lack of understanding people, like those who think it's "their" fault exclusively, folks like you. You thought people would bow and take anything and so the most uninspiring person you could come up went ran. That is not our fault but it is your share of the responsibility. I know you can't understand this, but some will.

Which explains Hillary winning the popular vote how, exactly?

 

[Blackjack200]

From what I read many stayed away from the polls, some made a protest for Trump but the majority of voting Sanders supporters picked the lesser of evils as they saw it, Hillary.

But I wonder how many regularly Democratic party voters preferred Sanders to Clinton, and then ultimately didn't vote for Clinton. I read at one point that 90% of Sanders voters planned to voter for Clinton in the GE, but stories about Sanders --> Trump voters got sensationalized.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Which explains Hillary winning the popular vote how, exactly?

Let's see... The second most unpopular candidate in recorded election history lost to the first because she pandered to everyone but the rust belt who she dismissed as having to vote for her in the lowest attended election in the last two decades.

Yep that covers that.

 

[soulcougher73]

I mean, it's hard to blame someone for being upset when their republic is being dismantled in front of their eyes. Like, we literally had a comedian on TV last night, crying and asking the GOP to please not kill children.

I agree with that, but Danks gone anarchist in his thinking since the election. He attacks people who agree with him just because they didn't drink ALL the Dem kool-aid.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But I wonder how many regularly Democratic party voters preferred Sanders to Clinton, and then ultimately didn't vote for Clinton. I read at one point that 90% of Sanders voters planned to voter for Clinton in the GE, but stories about Sanders --> Trump voters got sensationalized.

I can't say for sure and this is entirely anecdotal, but I've spoken with many in real life and it wasn't entirely about being against Hillary, but how the DNC decided that he could not be allowed to win and the Democratic institutions would not support an outsider even if he was largely for their agendas. That didn't sit well and I think it a plausible factor. Quantifiably? I don't have that data.

 

[dank69]

You sure have turned into an angry, blind, irrational DEM supporter. You should seek help since this last election. It's obviously knocked some screws loose of what used to be a decent poster on this forum.

You're goddamned right I am angry. I'm hateful and spiteful too, just for good measure. I will never forgive Americans for being too stupid to distinguish fact from fiction or proof from speculation. I will never forgive Americans for their mainstream hatred of liberals. It's cool to hate on liberals. Go to any family function. Ever seen a liberal just blurt out a random dig against conservatives? No. It just doesn't happen. Know why? Because they're afraid of being shot. But I'm willing to bet that at just about every single family function you've been to in the past 20 years you have at least one family member that will toss out digs against liberals/Democrats at random intervals. It happens everywhere every day. It's at the point that it would be weird if it didn't happen. It's expected, because liberals are morons and EVERYONE knows it. Why, I can rattle off a hundred ways that liberals are morons* without even breaking a sweat.

So here we are with a con man in the Oval Office. Quite possibly the dumbest con man ever to grace the planet with his presence. So bad at the con that anyone with an IQ over 100 and not blinded by liberal hatred can see it. Still enough to con just the right amount of the public in just the right places though now isn't it? I will never forgive America for being taken. All my screws are loose and I don't give a fuck.

*All 100 can be traced back to an insignificant few drug addled retards that now represent the entirety of Democrats and liberals.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I mean, it's hard to blame someone for being upset when their republic is being dismantled in front of their eyes. Like, we literally had a comedian on TV last night, crying and asking the GOP to please not kill children.

It would be irrational to be happy with the state of things. What I have trouble with is the failure to acknowledge even superficially that a lot of factors were involved with the election result and everyone who did not vote for Hillary "good little conservatives" based solely on them not being able to support her either. What we are not are "good little partisans" and therefore little Satans. It's completely irrational and worse it alienates otherwise natural allies who are going to be needed next election. "Fuck you" is not a way to influence people constructively.

 

[Bowfinger]

Right because to you it is more plausible that Democrats are at fault instead of the electorate. An electorate that actively voted for Trump, a man you acknowledge is a fucking con man. A con man so bad that anyone with two brain cells to rub together could spot it from a mile away. Irrational hatred of Democrats found.

What makes you a good little conservative is that your criticisms of Democrats are irrational. Period. It doesn't matter to you that you can't articulate a good criticism of Democrats where the GOP is far worse, just must criticize the Democrats as if they are just as bad. You cannot admit that Democrats are better than Republicans across the board because that would be admitting that liberals are better, so you invent ways that Democrats are bad and when you can't invent your own you regurgitate standard conservative talking point straw men. ...

With all due respect, this is just what I'm talking about. Hayb's made it quite clear you two have far more in common than you differ, yet you continue to attack him personally just because he won't toe your personal party line. Did it ever occur to you that your stark, black and white views on party loyalty and "fault" fail to reflect the complexity and nuance of the real world? I've said before that Democrats' fixation on blaming one thing for their loss badly misses the point, and is going to continue to lose elections.

Maybe you want to call me a conservative, too, but I largely agree with Hayb. I think the Democratic Party sucks. I think it is corrupt, too beholden to special interests, and makes only limited effort to represent working Americans. I think Hillary Clinton was a mediocre candidate who was exceptionally vulnerable to GOP attacks; indeed, perhaps the one person Trump could beat. You can cry about how unfair that is, and how the GOP smears were all empty BS, and I'll even agree with you ... but the reality is what it is and the results speak for themselves.

That said, today's GOP is almost infinitely worse. The fact I think the Democratic party sucks does not mean I embrace the GOP. Not at all. The DNC may be the flu, but the modern GOP is a malignant cancer. It is steadily destroying everything that made America great ... and Donnie just turned that up to 11. Today's GOP is an unholy alliance of bigots, religious extremists, and crooked. greedy a-holes who care about nothing except enriching themselves. It is shamelessly corrupt, openly serving the elite few at the expense of working Americans. It needs to be gutted top to bottom, then replaced with a traditional conservative party with integrity and true American values.

But the Democratic Party still sucks. Just not nearly so much.

 

[woolfe9998]

That's no doubt true, at least to an extent, but it's rather superficial. Why are so many of them so bitter? It's not just because they lost, but also because of how they were treated while getting there. Too many Clinton fans, people just like you, treated them as the enemy rather than as fellow liberals with slightly different views. Instead of working with them, you actively, arrogantly alienated them, and now bitch that they took their balls and went home. Was that a self-destructive move on their part? Yes. But, it was a very human, predictable response to your behavior.

You reap what you sow. I warned you a year ago that this was what you were sowing. Trump is your harvest.

It's interesting that you attribute the outcome to Clinton supporters allegedly treating Sanders supporters poorly. I would first point out that Sanders' supporters made their own decisions about who to vote for in the general election. Clinton supporters did not make the decision for them. If Clinton was trying to reach out to them, and she was the candidate, why didn't they vote for her?

I'm also wondering if you can be more specific about this bashing of Sanders supporters. Are we talking about a few posters here on P&N or was this a big national phenomenon?

What I recall from this board was that each set of supporters criticized the other candidate. I also recall that the Clinton supporters criticized Sanders for advocating policies (e.g. free college for all) which were neither politically nor fiscally realistic, regardless of how desirable they may have been in the abstract, while the criticisms of Clinton labelled her as a corporatist who was in the pocket of Wall Street. In my view, the criticisms of Sanders were essentially correct, while the criticisms of Clinton were partly correct but often exaggerated or even shrill. I recall pointing out at least 3 times that Clinton had voted with Sanders 92% of the time in the Senate and being ignored by Sanders supporters every time. They just kept claiming that she was no better than Trump. or even worse than Trump. See many of Moonbeam's posts during that time as a prime example.

The bottom line is that however many Sanders supporters didn't vote for Clinton, it was because of the way they viewed Clinton herself. I highly doubt it had much to do with being bashed by Clinton supporters.

 

[Jaskalas]

Then why the fuck are you attacking Democrats for defending against the claim that they are anti-capitalist?

You are unhinged and raving.
The only mention of Capitalism I made prior, was me slamming Pelosi for HER attack against progressives as anti-Capitalist.

Asked if the Democratic Party would embrace Sanders’ populist message: “Well, I thank you for your question, but I have to say we’re capitalists—that’s just the way it is.”

You also going to rage at these two Senators for calling out the DNC?

• “Trump did not win the presidency. The Democratic Party lost the presidency,”
• ...restructuring of the Democratic Party, one he said would be made up of the working class, rather than the “liberal elite.”
  
• “And when we do that, when we transform the Democratic Party, we transform America,”

“Too often the media gets involved in, what I call, political gossip,” he said. “The issue of today, in my view, is to try to address some of the concerns that I raised about a collapsing middle class, massive levels of income inequality, being the only major country not to guarantee health care. That’s what we focus on.”

 

[dank69]

I agree with that, but Danks gone anarchist in his thinking since the election. He attacks people who agree with him just because they didn't drink ALL the Dem kool-aid.

See? You have no idea what I am even saying. You think I want people to agree with Dems on everything? You aren't paying attention. The Dems are far from perfect and you have never seen me claim any different. The GOP is pure poison. Anyone that has any single shred of doubt about this can fuck right the fuck off at this point because they are useless sacks of shit. Most people can at least acknowledge this point. The problem is that most people are still to stupid to realize that the only way we can fight the GOP is to get the fuck on board with the Dems, baggage and all, until the GOP fucking implodes. But it is too late for that now. Not only have we decided not to get on board with the Dems because for some fucking reason we think we can afford to be picky, we've given them full control of everything. AGAIN. After they JUST got finished dragging us to the edge of the great abyss less than a decade ago. Who fucking cares that the Dems saved us from the brink, all while facing complete obstruction from the GOP and ridicule from the shithead "independents." I say no more. Americans do not deserve to be saved. I'm going to sit here and make smores while my house burns down to the ground. It will be a tasty fucking smore, too.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You're goddamned right I am angry. I'm hateful and spiteful too, just for good measure. I will never forgive Americans for being too stupid to distinguish fact from fiction or proof from speculation. I will never forgive Americans for their mainstream hatred of liberals. It's cool to hate on liberals. Go to any family function. Ever seen a liberal just blurt out a random dig against conservatives? No. It just doesn't happen. Know why? Because they're afraid of being shot. But I'm willing to bet that at just about every single family function you've been to in the past 20 years you have at least one family member that will toss out digs against liberals/Democrats at random intervals. It happens everywhere every day. It's at the point that it would be weird if it didn't happen. It's expected, because liberals are morons and EVERYONE knows it. Why, I can rattle off a hundred ways that liberals are morons* without even breaking a sweat.

So here we are with a con man in the Oval Office. Quite possibly the dumbest con man ever to grace the planet with his presence. So bad at the con that anyone with an IQ over 100 and not blinded by liberal hatred can see it. Still enough to con just the right amount of the public in just the right places though now isn't it? I will never forgive America for being taken. All my screws are loose and I don't give a fuck.

At some point I hope you get over things enough to realize that not everyone who didn't vote for Hillary is your enemy. Despite your posts about me and people like me, the non-Trump, non-Hillary supporter I don't hate you and neither do the others AFAIK. A whole lot of us support agendas that I suspect are similar you yours and will oppose harmful defunding and policies. Do you really think that every supporter of the EPA must have voted for Hillary? That one is anti environment in principle if they didn't like her? No, and you know that. Yeah I get lashing out, and I'll take it, but seriously don't take it out on those you care about. I can be the whipping boy if needed, but I'll poke back!

 

[Bowfinger]

Bullshit. That flies in the face of the facts, that Dems adopted the most progressive platform ever. Bernie's supporters got trolled hard, and fell for it. You still refuse to recognize that.

People don't vote for platforms. People don't turn out for platforms. Sad though it may be, most people vote based on feelings. When you spend months shitting on people, you hurt their feelings and you drive them away. YOU still refuse to recognize that.

 

[soulcougher73]

Has it ever been shown that a significant portion of Sanders voters didn't vote for Clinton, or even went to Trump? I find that really hard to believe. I only know of one Sanders supporter that didn't vote for Clinton, and he would never have voted for Clinton (didn't vote for Obama either).

I voted for Gary Johnson since Sanders wasnt on the ticket. Clinton and Trump would never get a vote from me.

 

[Blackjack200]

I agree with that, but Danks gone anarchist in his thinking since the election. He attacks people who agree with him just because they didn't drink ALL the Dem kool-aid.

I don't agree with it, but I understand the logic. If you agree that Democrats are unequivocally better than Republicans (I do), and you understand that our political system only gives you the choice of two candidates (I do), then criticizing the superior candidate is counterproductive.

So the proper thing to do is to throw your support behind the better party, and if that party can remain in power long enough, it will force the other party to move toward its views, and that in turn will force the party in power to move further in the direction of their base to maintain some philosophical distance. This is sort of orthodoxy for American politics, and I subscribed to it myself until fairly recently.

The election of Trump, a manifestly hateful, incompetent, and mentally ill man changed my outlook. I've been trying to understand how it happened and I can't make any sense of it in the context of the orthodoxy I described. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that a huge part of this country is so politically disengaged that they do not even care if a rapist who is transparently corrupt is the president. To me, that's a nation on life support.

 

[Blackjack200]

I voted for Gary Johnson since Sanders wasnt on the ticket. Clinton and Trump would never get a vote from me.

Right, but you were never voting for Clinton from day 1. You not voting for Clinton really had nothing to do with Sanders.

 

[dank69]

With all due respect, this is just what I'm talking about. Hayb's made it quite clear you two have far more in common than you differ, yet you continue to attack him personally just because he won't toe your personal party line. Did it ever occur to you that your stark, black and white views on party loyalty and "fault" fail to reflect the complexity and nuance of the real world? I've said before that Democrats' fixation on blaming one thing for their loss badly misses the point, and is going to continue to lose elections.

Maybe you want to call me a conservative, too, but I largely agree with Hayb. I think the Democratic Party sucks. I think it is corrupt, too beholden to special interests, and makes only limited effort to represent working Americans. I think Hillary Clinton was a mediocre candidate who was exceptionally vulnerable to GOP attacks; indeed, perhaps the one person Trump could beat. You can cry about how unfair that is, and how the GOP smears were all empty BS, and I'll even agree with you ... but the reality is what it is and the results speak for themselves.

That said, today's GOP is almost infinitely worse. The fact I think the Democratic party sucks does not mean I embrace the GOP. Not at all. The DNC may be the flu, but the modern GOP is a malignant cancer. It is steadily destroying everything that made America great ... and Donnie just turned that up to 11. Today's GOP is an unholy alliance of bigots, religious extremists, and crooked. greedy a-holes who care about nothing except enriching themselves. It is shamelessly corrupt, openly serving the elite few at the expense of working Americans. It needs to be gutted top to bottom, then replaced with a traditional conservative party with integrity and true American values.

But the Democratic Party still sucks. Just not nearly so much.

Great. Democrats suck and GOP sucks infinitely worse, therefore don't vote for Dems because they suck. Enjoy choking on trickle-down economics until we're in the middle of the next Great Depression. I hope the Democrats get their asses fucking destroyed in the midterms and I hope we see a fucking Trump Dynasty for the next three decades.