The curremt Israeli staregy is unsustainable.

[Infohawk]

Who would of thunk it in zero AD, that Rome would ever fall, or that the USA, with its nearly infinite world dominance in 1955 could lose its economic dominance? Or that a France at the height of its powers during the rein of Louis the 14'th would be in revolution and anarchy in a generation of two.

You've made and continue to make a specific prediction about Israel. You don't justify your position by pointing out that things change. Yes, things change. That doesn't mean your prediction will come true.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

LL. If you could provide any sort of rational analysis of the situation that wasn't colored by your highly obvious distaste for Israel and you clear support for the Palestinians (which is actually more of a default support i.e. - the enemy of your enemy is your friend) you might be able to make some valid points concerning the situation. The problem is that you allow your emotional investment in this conflict to color your opinions. It causes you to make pronouncements that generally aren't rooted in any sort reality and instead it's all based on this fantasy that exists in your head.

One glaring example of the above is your claim that Israel is all about dominance of its Arab neighbors. Israel is not about that at all. Israel is simply about the preservation of Israel. Their only real concern about their Arab neighbors is that they leave them alone. But in your fantasy world, where you view Israel as the Big Bad Wolf, Israel is purely about domination and bullying.

Let go of the hate, man. Until you do your viewpoint will constantly remained skewed and in fantasy land.

 

[cybrsage]

You've made and continue to make a specific prediction about the prediction. You don't justify your position by pointing out that things change. Yes, things change. That doesn't mean your prediction will come true.

I predict things will change... :sneaky:

 

[JTsyo]

As infohawk states, "The Israelis are into high-technology. The Muslim Middle-East isn't."

But the USA and the EU are arguably more technologically advanced, but that has not helped the USA win quagmires in Vietnam, Iraq, and now Afghanistan that is really gone South recently. As GWB's war on terrorism has increased world wide terrorism levels and not decreased it. Maybe Nebor is right, my writing prowess may not be that great, but still that does absolutely nothing to make the questions I ask go away!

In case you have not noticed, I too advocate Israeli survival.

That would be valid if Israel wants to occupy the other countries. If their goal is to just negate their war making capability then they don't have to worry about the issues that as hindered us in our wars. How long would it have taken the US to destroy Iraq's army and war factories? Israel would have no delusions of going on a nation building campaign.

 

[Lemon law]

That would be valid if Israel wants to occupy the other countries. If their goal is to just negate their war making capability then they don't have to worry about the issues that as hindered us in our wars. How long would it have taken the US to destroy Iraq's army and war factories? Israel would have no delusions of going on a nation building campaign.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------It seems to me the JTyso just asked a number of irrelevant side questions already answered by history. (1) During Gulf war one GHB spent 2 months softening up Iraq from the air. Destroying mainly all civilian infrastructure in the process. But the time GHB put tanks and troops on the ground, Saddam sued for peace in a matter of days. (2) During the Iraq war 2 under GWB, GWB didn't even bother to soften up Iraq from the air, GWB just landed tanks and drove to Baghdad virtually without opposition. (3) In the early 1980's Israel destroyed an Iraqi reactor and did so with a single sortie of six planes, and repeated the feat in Syria with a single strike.

But neither Iraq or Syria are like Iran, because Iran has some 40 deeply buried nuclear facilities that will not yield to a single sortie of Israeli planes. And if Israel tries to put tanks on the ground, Iran is perfectly positioned with vast stores of anti-tank weapons with terrain very similar to Southern Lebanon. We can all remember what happened in the Israeli rape of Lebanon, and what happened when small militia of Hezbollah irregulars kept Israeli with its state of the arts tanks from advancing 10 miles in 2 weeks.

Meanwhile what happens to oil prices if Israel attacks Iran? What Happens if Turkey uses it air power to defend Iran. Meanwhile mid-east terrorists would add to the variables. And just a huge spike in crude oil prices would send major oil consuming nations into instant depression with a Few weeks. If Israel is the author of such world wide misery, they are going to also catch the blame.

But I an asking the even longer terms question, what happens as various surrounding Arab nations build up their military and economic capacity faster than Israel can keep pace, then the Israeli strategy of being the most hated nation in the mid-east turns from a asset and into a major Israeli liability.

 

[cybrsage]

I remember when Israel went into Lebanon to slaughter Hezzballah member for attacking Israel. They slaughtered Hezzballah members very effectively.

Deaths: ~64 reported by Hezbollah,[8] ≤500 estimated by Lebanese government officials,[9] ~500 estimated by United Nations[10] ~600 estimated by IDF,[11] 440 bodies identified by Israel and up to 700 estimated by Amidror[12] More than 700 claimed by Lebanese sources [13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Lebanon_War

 

[chucky2]

Israel is going to put tanks on the ground in Iran? As in, not take over an Iranian tank for Israeli operation purposes, but, actually fly Israeli tanks into Iran for said operation?!?!

Dude....stop posting. Seriously. You've gone well past the point of irrationality, you're so far gone on this you're entering the 234 zone.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Israel is going to put tanks on the ground in Iran? As in, not take over an Iranian tank for Israeli operation purposes, but, actually fly Israeli tanks into Iran for said operation?!?!

Dude....stop posting. Seriously. You've gone well past the point of irrationality, you're so far gone on this you're entering the 234 zone.

LOL 😵

 

[cybrsage]

Meanwhile what happens to oil prices if Israel attacks Iran? What Happens if Turkey uses it air power to defend Iran. Meanwhile mid-east terrorists would add to the variables. And just a huge spike in crude oil prices would send major oil consuming nations into instant depression with a Few weeks. If Israel is the author of such world wide misery, they are going to also catch the blame.

I doubt Turkey would rise up and defend Iran. That said, if Iran's desire to build nuclear weapons results in oil prices rising, I do not think western nations will blame Israel for it.

But I an asking the even longer terms question, what happens as various surrounding Arab nations build up their military and economic capacity faster than Israel can keep pace, then the Israeli strategy of being the most hated nation in the mid-east turns from a asset and into a major Israeli liability.

The surrounding nations already want to see them destroyed. If they could do it now, they would. This will not change in the near future.

 

[chucky2]

LOL 😵

Sorry, just could not take anymore delusion. I know the evil Jews are smart and all, but, I don't think they could get an F-15 to carry a tank. Maybe EK can chime in and render a more knowledgable opinion...but I'm guessing a firm No on this one.

Chuck

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Sorry, just could not take anymore delusion. I know the evil Jews are smart and all, but, I don't think they could get an F-15 to carry a tank. Maybe EK can chime in and render a more knowledgable opinion...but I'm guessing a firm No on this one.

Chuck

Word is that the Chinese have been experimenting with that concept:

 

[chucky2]

Haha!

Admit it, if you saw that falling from the sky, you'd definitely be drawn to looking at it. Perfect for a force already on the ground gaining more surprise factor.

Maybe the Chinese are onto something?

 

[irishScott]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------It seems to me the JTyso just asked a number of irrelevant side questions already answered by history. (1) During Gulf war one GHB spent 2 months softening up Iraq from the air. Destroying mainly all civilian infrastructure in the process. But the time GHB put tanks and troops on the ground, Saddam sued for peace in a matter of days. (2) During the Iraq war 2 under GWB, GWB didn't even bother to soften up Iraq from the air, GWB just landed tanks and drove to Baghdad virtually without opposition. (3) In the early 1980's Israel destroyed an Iraqi reactor and did so with a single sortie of six planes, and repeated the feat in Syria with a single strike.

But neither Iraq or Syria are like Iran, because Iran has some 40 deeply buried nuclear facilities that will not yield to a single sortie of Israeli planes. And if Israel tries to put tanks on the ground, Iran is perfectly positioned with vast stores of anti-tank weapons with terrain very similar to Southern Lebanon. We can all remember what happened in the Israeli rape of Lebanon, and what happened when small militia of Hezbollah irregulars kept Israeli with its state of the arts tanks from advancing 10 miles in 2 weeks.

Meanwhile what happens to oil prices if Israel attacks Iran? What Happens if Turkey uses it air power to defend Iran. Meanwhile mid-east terrorists would add to the variables. And just a huge spike in crude oil prices would send major oil consuming nations into instant depression with a Few weeks. If Israel is the author of such world wide misery, they are going to also catch the blame.

But I an asking the even longer terms question, what happens as various surrounding Arab nations build up their military and economic capacity faster than Israel can keep pace, then the Israeli strategy of being the most hated nation in the mid-east turns from a asset and into a major Israeli liability.

Wow. Sir, do you think? Do you have the capacity to think? Did your parents teach you to think before you spoke? Are you aware of the concept of 1 + 1 = 2? You say you do, they did, and you are? Good. Now apply that to what you just posted. Apply facts with no connotation, no adjectives, no motivations. Can you do that?

Alright, then answer the question: how are the Israelis going to get tanks into Iran? How? You obviously think they have the capability, I want to know how, and I want a cited source to where you're getting your information from.

Once again, the key here is to separate facts from emotion. Be Spock, Tuvok, and T'Pol combined, and tell me how Israel could possibly successfully land enough tanks in Iran to be anything resembling a real threat.

 

[Lemon law]

I admit the forum consensus seems to be that I am nuts. But still we are not talking cheer leading for one sports team or another, we are talking the outcome of history
that always moves far slower than we all think. So we in this forum will know which side is right in only 10 or 15 years. But perhaps far faster is Israel tries to invade Iran.

But still in more knowledgeable venues, my ideas are not so far fetched, The following link I ran across is fairly interesting and so are the comments.

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com

/posts/2011/08/01/when_did_the_american_empire_start_to_decline

 

[chucky2]

It's really simple:

Do you seriously believe Israel is going to fly tanks into Iran?

It's just a Yes or No question. Which one are you going with?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I really want to know about Israel's curremt staregy.

 

[irishScott]

I admit the forum consensus seems to be that I am nuts. But still we are not talking cheer leading for one sports team or another, we are talking the outcome of history
that always moves far slower than we all think. So we in this forum will know which side is right in only 10 or 15 years. But perhaps far faster is Israel tries to invade Iran.

But still in more knowledgeable venues, my ideas are not so far fetched, The following link I ran across is fairly interesting and so are the comments.

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com

/posts/2011/08/01/when_did_the_american_empire_start_to_decline

You couldn't just link directly to the post could you? I didn't read the comments, but I read the entire article, and for the life of me I can't find anything that answers our collective question. How is Israel going to fly tanks into Iran?

Here's an analogy: You're in a spelling bee and you're told to spell the word "confidence". In reply you spell the word "armadillo". Doesn't make sense does it? Well that's what you just did, and because of that you get an F on that word.

God I feel like I have to link to the dictionary for every word I type just so you know the difference between "confidence" and "armadillo" to start with.

 

[Lemon law]

I never said Israel is going to fly tanks into Iran Irish Scott. Therefore Iran can't effective
strike Iran's nuclear sites.

Which IrishScott, still ducks the question, as Israeli mid-east military hegemony continues to decline, how can Israel transform itself from the most hated nation in the mid-east and into an accepted and productive part of the mid-east?

Should not that be a question we all want to find an answer to?

 

[irishScott]

I never said Israel is going to fly talks into Iran Irish Scott. Therefore Iran can't effective
strike Iran's nuclear sites.

Which IrishScott, still ducks the question, as Israeli mid-east military hegemony continues to decline, how can Israel transform itself from the most hated nation in the mid-east and into an accepted and productive part of the mid-east?

Should not that be a question we all want to find an answer to?

Alright, we're making progress. You don't think Israel is going to fly tanks to Iran. But you still, as per your posts, clearly think they have the capability to get tanks to Iran, as you mention them trying to as a serious option. So if they're not going to fly them, how are they going to get them there? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I never said Israel is going to fly talks into Iran Irish Scott. Therefore Iran can't effective
strike Iran's nuclear sites.

Which IrishScott, still ducks the question, as Israeli mid-east military hegemony continues to decline, how can Israel transform itself from the most hated nation in the mid-east and into an accepted and productive part of the mid-east?

Should not that be a question we all want to find an answer to?

Most hated by who ? The surrounding nations and you perhaps but not by the Western world. If you mean what can israelis do to appease nations like Iran? Thats easy. They can die.

 

[Lemon law]

Most hated by who ? The surrounding nations and you perhaps but not by the Western world. If you mean what can israelis do to appease nations like Iran? Thats easy. They can die.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMHO, what a crazy and stupid thing to say Haybausa. Both Israel and Iran both have many moderates who can seek common ground, But Bozo Netanyuhu and Achminejad are extremist turds of a feather.

If you expect to find any logic or enlightenment from an extremist no matter what side they are on, you sir are quite frankly crazy?

 

[chucky2]

Except that in Iran, the religious leaders control the political leaders. The religious leaders stay relevent, and in power, by fostering the current Iran/Israel relationship. The people of Iran that dissent from this control get steamrolled (look what happened last time there). See how far your moderates idea goes? No where. Iran needs to fix itself before the Iran/Israel situation ever even starts to get resolved.

Short of Israel just totally capitulating, there is nothing it can do, as Iran is ruled by loonies, not your moderates.

Not to say Israel is some shining beacon of awesomeness - it isn't - but it's far from Iran.

Next great idea?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMHO, what a crazy and stupid thing to say Haybausa. Both Israel and Iran both have many moderates who can seek common ground, But Bozo Netanyuhu and Achminejad are extremist turds of a feather.

If you expect to find any logic or enlightenment from an extremist no matter what side they are on, you sir are quite frankly crazy?

I forget where the Israeli leadership had it's people gunned down. Links would be appreciated. I'd like to see moderates on both sides gain control. In Israel thats politically difficult, in Iran moderates can't come to power as you have said. Considering how the death sentence is handed out it might prove fatal to anyone who posed a challenge who wasn't on the approved list.

Btw, your response didn't address mine if you didn't notice.

 

[Infohawk]

But I an asking the even longer terms question, what happens as various surrounding Arab nations build up their military and economic capacity faster than Israel

Who says that's going to happen? That will only happen if the Muslm countries change from the inside. If they do modernize, they probably won't be hell-bent on destroying Israel.

 

[cybrsage]

Israel does have a few Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules on order, to be delievered in 2014 or 2015. They can carry tanks, if I remember correctly.