The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS

[lupi]

Those that have only recently joined may not remember, but the old honor system was about the biggest POS they added to the game. It took them almost 2 years to then remove it even though everyone commented on just how bad it was.

I have seen nothing yet that indicates the same won't be occuring to the current version of the arena system.

 

[Anubis]

as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Anubis
Arena - Nerfing the rest of WoW since January 16, 2007.

fuck you blizzard, apperently 4000+ posts of feedback dont mean shit

my accnt runs out in 3 weeks

Amen brother.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: exdeath

Make your dps responsible for their own health. When they have to pot/bandage through a bleed and get called out for dying early, they will learn not to get hit by whirls. You will know who is a dps meter whore by who doesn't get out early enough.

That is a really bad idea. Ultimately, you will waste more time that way. If the DPS needs to be put through that kind of forceful treatment to learn how to handle one aspect of one encounter then the problem is the quality of members that your guild decided to recruit.

My guild farms Leo but people still get hit by WW sometimes. They all survive because we act as a team which includes the healers.....you know....healing.

If they get heals great. But healers have primary responsibilities, which does not include leaving the tanks, or other healers with demons, unattended while chasing 10 persistently out of range people all across the arena during whirl to heal people too stupid to avoid whirls in the first place.

I'm not saying let them die. I'm saying they need to aid in keeping themselves up due to the range issues that are guaranteed to occur when people are running away in several directions at once. With few exceptions (dps warrior as we near 20% for example), dps is my last priority when healing. I will keep people up if they happen to be in range, but I will not chase people clear to the other side of the map, all the while not healing for several seconds because I'm running. Bubble/ice block/stone form/pot/bandage in those cases, or stay next to a healer when you run from whirl.

Any time I get hit by whirl it's because I chose to stay in range of the tank during whirl I and know that my bubble is up.

It's really not that hard. Our first night on Leo people were dying to whirl bleeds left and right. On the third attempt and first kill, just cold turkey nobody got hit by the whirl anymore all the way to the end.

I understand priorities. There is only so much the healers can do to ensure that they provide the raid with the maximum amount of time possible to defeat the enemy.

However, for Leo, you should not need to have dedicated healers for the demons. Healing their damage is stupid easy even if it is attacking a squishy. One or two dedicated healers on the Elf and Demon tank is a good idea though. The rest should be spread out in order to cover the whole raid and repair as much damage as possible.

Part of our job as healers is to provide the raid with the largest window of flexibility as possible by allowing them to make mistakes while still completing the encounter. The bigger that window is, the greater chances of your success. Of course, this is best coupled when the tanks and the DPS are working their hardest to reduce the margin of error as much as possible. Together, as a team, you will maximize your progression thinking and acting this way.

Trying to use brute force such as telling the DPS that you will not heal them if they screw up too much will not help your raid. Explaining that you will try your hardest but they need to understand that what you can do is limited due to your priorities is a much better approach.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: lupi
being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

This was actually a huge problem pre-BC. The blue PVP gear (what I called PVP1) was absolute garbage. Then the bastards updated PVP1 after I stopped PVPing so I couldn't get it again. Of course PVP2 had the items themselves upgraded unlike PVP1 (which was replaced), so even if you fell back to say... R5, you were still fine. Man, that pissed me off. What pissed me off even more is how someone in MC and BWL epix lewtz could blow me away with the much higher stats.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

In short, the old system was extremely unfriendly to casual PvP players. Everyone, including casuals, need a sense of accomplishment and progression. Since the old system penalized you heavily if you did not play enough, that sense of accomplishment and progression felt very void and null to the casuals. Blizzard hates doing that especially to such a massive percentage of their player base.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

In short, the old system was extremely unfriendly to casual PvP players. Everyone, including casuals, need a sense of accomplishment and progression. Since the old system penalized you heavily if you did not play enough, that sense of accomplishment and progression felt very void and null to the casuals. Blizzard hates doing that especially to such a massive percentage of their player base.

all they had to do was remove the honor decay and BAM old system was fine

 

[AntiFreze]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
does a dwarf's stoneform remove the bleed?

Used to be able to, beleive they changed it so you can't anymore.

why does blizz do something like this? they think that dwarves should be nerfed cause this is too great of a thing? its like a 3min CD anyways...

I don't see them taking away a humans weapons skill racials on certain bosses.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

In short, the old system was extremely unfriendly to casual PvP players. Everyone, including casuals, need a sense of accomplishment and progression. Since the old system penalized you heavily if you did not play enough, that sense of accomplishment and progression felt very void and null to the casuals. Blizzard hates doing that especially to such a massive percentage of their player base.

all they had to do was remove the honor decay and BAM old system was fine

I guess that could have worked too, but would that really have resulted in anything different than the current system? I realize some formula has changed, but ultimately the only thing that does is change how one maximizes their honor grind in the shortest time.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
all they had to do was remove the honor decay and BAM old system was fine

If they did that, they'd have to change the fact that you usually only had one GM/HW at the same time. I think once we had two GMs at the same time though... I don't remember. I think the old system needed buying retention rights... so if you hit GM/HW before and then they added things (like they added the wands pre-BC), you could just go buy them if you used to be a GM/HW.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

In short, the old system was extremely unfriendly to casual PvP players. Everyone, including casuals, need a sense of accomplishment and progression. Since the old system penalized you heavily if you did not play enough, that sense of accomplishment and progression felt very void and null to the casuals. Blizzard hates doing that especially to such a massive percentage of their player base.

all they had to do was remove the honor decay and BAM old system was fine

I'm not going to disagree with that...but that decay factor was the key to the previous honor system.

As a matter of fact, you take out the arenas now and you'd pretty much have the old honor system without decay. Which all goes to my original point that the old system (I.e. decay) will very likely see the same result applied to the arenas unless blizz decides to firmly take a 180 design shift a go for 1v1 balancing and pvp over pve.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

In short, the old system was extremely unfriendly to casual PvP players. Everyone, including casuals, need a sense of accomplishment and progression. Since the old system penalized you heavily if you did not play enough, that sense of accomplishment and progression felt very void and null to the casuals. Blizzard hates doing that especially to such a massive percentage of their player base.

all they had to do was remove the honor decay and BAM old system was fine

I'm not going to disagree with that...but that decay factor was the key to the previous honor system.

As a matter of fact, you take out the arenas now and you'd pretty much have the old honor system without decay. Which all goes to my original point that the old system (I.e. decay) will very likely see the same result applied to the arenas unless blizz decides to firmly take a 180 design shift a go for 1v1 balancing and pvp over pve.

I doubt that will happen. Blizz made this move to give the casuals more of an opportunity. The beauty of the Arena is that you can be casual and still get your epics before the season ends without putting in much time or effort. The only thing you cannot do as a casual is earn some serious rank/standing in the arena, but only the extreme players care about that anyways. With their current system, the vast majority of the player base is getting what they want (ignoring class balance of course).

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

In short, the old system was extremely unfriendly to casual PvP players. Everyone, including casuals, need a sense of accomplishment and progression. Since the old system penalized you heavily if you did not play enough, that sense of accomplishment and progression felt very void and null to the casuals. Blizzard hates doing that especially to such a massive percentage of their player base.

all they had to do was remove the honor decay and BAM old system was fine

I guess that could have worked too, but would that really have resulted in anything different than the current system? I realize some formula has changed, but ultimately the only thing that does is change how one maximizes their honor grind in the shortest time.

Yes, but that's also the reason many are complaining about the current changes.
 
As blizz won't say anything official, all the "details" coming out must be taken with a wee bit of salt as they like to say. But for those that are trying to understand the rationale behind the current changes from what I can gather it's all based on the arenas. The BGs are getting some minor changes, but those are just balancing tweaks (some that are long due) that really won't have much impact on the way they are played.
 
The arenas though are a winner take all event with a much smaller number of players than the BGs. This has caused them to become dominated by the side that can outlast the other. Take the life tap changes. Some looked through the arena rankings and saw that in 3v3 and 5v5 the lock is a rather middle of the road class. in 2v2 there were a couple high on the charts, supposedly because they can generate additional mana during the fight that unbalances it. Same theory goes with the momentary changes to the shammies and their cooldowns. Sure the cooldowns are long enough that in group pvp or pve the occasional spikes in damage doesn't really mean anything, but you get in the 2v2 area and it becomes more effective. Same about lifebloom etc...
 
 
So now we have a group of designers that laugh about welfare epics and have for some time told people their complaints were unfounded as the games wasn't designed around class versus class encounters, making adjustments to the classes as they relate in pvp against another class for those welfare epics and ignoring any effects on the rest of the game.
 
Maybe they should just pull the arenas as I don't see much good coming from them unless they can make some worthwhile system changes. The only thing I see in chat while in city that compares to LF AV premades would be those about selling arena points. When I dabbled in the pvp scene before for some time, I remember being quit successful in my 60 green/blues going against guys decked out in raid epics as the fluidity of the BGs allowed those that knew how to play their class to be very competitive against those in better gear. Now with everyone in full S1 with several S2s tossed in, the new guy coming up has an incredible differential to cross regardless of the comparison of skill level.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: lupi
Maybe they should just pull the arenas as I don't see much good coming from them unless they can make some worthwhile system changes. The only thing I see in chat while in city that compares to LF AV premades would be those about selling arena points. When I dabbled in the pvp scene before for some time, I remember being quit successful in my 60 green/blues going against guys decked out in raid epics as the fluidity of the BGs allowed those that knew how to play their class to be very competitive against those in better gear. Now with everyone in full S1 with several S2s tossed in, the new guy coming up has an incredible differential to cross regardless of the comparison of skill level.

I don't know... personally, I think that arena style combat is probably the best you'll get, but then there's gear differences and sometimes you simply lose because you have a bad class matrix for your current opponent. That's why I like FPS games in that regard... you're essentially all "equal."

EDIT:

Regarding difficulty of opponents, my two rogues have beat well-geared opponents before in PVP.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Anubis
as someone who actually ground out rank 14 i actually think the old system was better, not perfect but it was better

The old system was better in it's non impact on pvp and being able to walk around a major city and not having trouble to find a char in <90% purps. (Of course to a degree this is due to BGs vs BGs/Arenas)

Where the old system failed was in how the "grind" of it was accomplished.

In short, the old system was extremely unfriendly to casual PvP players. Everyone, including casuals, need a sense of accomplishment and progression. Since the old system penalized you heavily if you did not play enough, that sense of accomplishment and progression felt very void and null to the casuals. Blizzard hates doing that especially to such a massive percentage of their player base.

all they had to do was remove the honor decay and BAM old system was fine

I'm not going to disagree with that...but that decay factor was the key to the previous honor system.

As a matter of fact, you take out the arenas now and you'd pretty much have the old honor system without decay. Which all goes to my original point that the old system (I.e. decay) will very likely see the same result applied to the arenas unless blizz decides to firmly take a 180 design shift a go for 1v1 balancing and pvp over pve.

I doubt that will happen. Blizz made this move to give the casuals more of an opportunity. The beauty of the Arena is that you can be casual and still get your epics before the season ends without putting in much time or effort. The only thing you cannot do as a casual is earn some serious rank/standing in the arena, but only the extreme players care about that anyways. With their current system, the vast majority of the player base is getting what they want (ignoring class balance of course).

But that makes no sense to me from a logical standpoint. If you want everyone to have easy access to that gear, then why make such gamewide affecting changes based on it.

 

[JAH]

It?s been over a month now since I hit 70 with my protection warrior, and with my limited play time I?ve been grinding TK instances for Sha?tar rep. Well, I finally reached exalted status and got my Crest of the Sha?tar!

I wanted to do heroic instances ever since I ding?d 70, but I didn?t want to do them under-geared since...well...under-geared tank is just not a good idea. I think I?m ?okay? now gear wise ? got 490 defense, 11.5K HP unbuff, and 13K armor with a couple of Kara pieces (a PuG group beg me to OT Kara and I ended with couple tanking pieces before the it disbanded).

All my groups have been PuGs, but none of them were bad and normal instances were becoming too easy, so with my gears okay somewhat, I set my sight on heroics.

Black Morass happened to be the daily heroic, so I say what the heck, might as well give it a try. BM on normal was a joke, so I thought how hard can it be on heroic? Two groups later, I think PuG+Heroic is not a good idea...

I tanked it just fine, but in both groups the DPS cannot handle the adds at all. Even set two people on adds and within the first couple of portal they drop dead. Are BM adds that much harder on heroic?

In any case, I think I?m done with heroic PuGs. Me and a holy priest friend are forming a static group to do heroics couple times a week, so hopefully things will be much smoother...

 

[rh71]

2.4 patch is nerfing the hitpoints of those heroic BM mobs. I honestly haven't tried it in 6 months so I can imagine with a nerf it's pretty damn tough to take out those adds and lords as it is now.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: rh71
2.4 patch is nerfing the hitpoints of those heroic BM mobs. I honestly haven't tried it in 6 months so I can imagine with a nerf it's pretty damn tough to take out those adds and lords as it is now.

eh not really if you have rep/badge gear is really not hard at all

classmakeup plays alot into this tho

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Xavier434

I doubt that will happen. Blizz made this move to give the casuals more of an opportunity. The beauty of the Arena is that you can be casual and still get your epics before the season ends without putting in much time or effort. The only thing you cannot do as a casual is earn some serious rank/standing in the arena, but only the extreme players care about that anyways. With their current system, the vast majority of the player base is getting what they want (ignoring class balance of course).

But that makes no sense to me from a logical standpoint. If you want everyone to have easy access to that gear, then why make such gamewide affecting changes based on it.

Elaborate on this more. I don't quite follow you. Give me some examples.

Also, it isn't that they want everyone to have easy access to the gear. They just wanted everyone to be able to get there hands on the gear eventually if they work at it. The idea is that it will take the casuals much longer to get it than the hardcore PvPers.

 

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by: Xavier434


Also, it isn't that they want everyone to have easy access to the gear. They just wanted everyone to be able to get there hands on the gear eventually if they work at it. The idea is that it will take the casuals much longer to get it than the hardcore PvPers.

Well, except for the weapons and shoulders.

Annoying!

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: DarkRipper

Originally posted by: Xavier434


Also, it isn't that they want everyone to have easy access to the gear. They just wanted everyone to be able to get there hands on the gear eventually if they work at it. The idea is that it will take the casuals much longer to get it than the hardcore PvPers.

Well, except for the weapons and shoulders.

Annoying!

just buy them like everyone else who cant get them legit does

they IMO really need to do something about points selling , it basicially kills the while idea of a ladder system or having ratings on items when any idiot can just pay someone to do it for them

 

[invidia]

Originally posted by: DarkRipper

Originally posted by: Xavier434


Also, it isn't that they want everyone to have easy access to the gear. They just wanted everyone to be able to get there hands on the gear eventually if they work at it. The idea is that it will take the casuals much longer to get it than the hardcore PvPers.

Well, except for the weapons and shoulders.

Annoying!

A good number of PvP servers are selling 2k personal ratings. Tichondrius for one have teams constantly offering personal 2k ratings for less than than 1.5k gold. My server has teams selling 800-1k honor for less than 400-500g.

Some ways to fix this:

1. You cannot join another team for XX days after leaving or getting kicked out of one.

2. You cannot remake another arena team of the same bracket for XX amount of days.

3. You only gain a certain % of the points earned by the team. IE: Team Ax has played 300 games since it was created. Playing only 10 games as a new member will net you XX% of the points.

4. (Already going to be implemented in 2.4....) Match up teams based on the highest player's personal ratings. So we don't have someone with full S3 and a 2.4k personal rating in a new arena team going up against another team of greens and blues.

5. Allow decay of rating per XX week/month.

 

[Xavier434]

I wasn't aware of this exploit. Has there been any discussion or feedback from Blizz on this issue? Is it even being talked about by the members of the WoW forums?

 

[invidia]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I wasn't aware of this exploit. Has there been any discussion or feedback from Blizz on this issue? Is it even being talked about by the members of the WoW forums?

Blizzard's typical cookie cutter answers are "We're looking into it" or just a complete ignore and no answer