Tesla Model Y

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KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,397
393
126
Congrats KentState, but be sure to keep your eyes on the road. Don't be this guy!


I'm a very minimalist distraction type of driver. I pretty much get in the car, put the phone on the charging pad, pick a station and drive. Too many idiots around here that don't pay attention plus after having a child, I tend to take less risks. Yes, I'm a 60 year old guy in a younger body :)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,092
146
I never had a car with heated steering wheel so I don't know what I'm missing. While I'm sure that's nice feature to have, I doubt it's must have feature for most.

...says the guy that lives in ATLANTA.
 

KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,397
393
126
...says the guy that lives in ATLANTA.

I never had a car with a heated wheel until I moved to Atlanta but it's so low on my list of must have features. If anything, CarPlay/Android Auto would be something I'd want first.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,092
146
I never had a car with a heated wheel until I moved to Atlanta but it's so low on my list of must have features. If anything, CarPlay/Android Auto would be something I'd want first.

well, from where did you move, Florida? :D

(and I agree with you--but I do see a lot of people these days that bitch about new model year in mid-upper tier cars not coming with heated wheels, and now the biggee: ventilated seats. Yes, I would love ventilated seats)
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
17,914
838
126
I'm a very minimalist distraction type of driver. I pretty much get in the car, put the phone on the charging pad, pick a station and drive. Too many idiots around here that don't pay attention plus after having a child, I tend to take less risks. Yes, I'm a 60 year old guy in a younger body :)
That's the way to be, but I must admit that I lose it every now & then.

I never had a car with a heated wheel until I moved to Atlanta but it's so low on my list of must have features. If anything, CarPlay/Android Auto would be something I'd want first.
My last 2 vehicles have had the heated wheel, and while it's gotten little use this winter, I consider it to be a must have now. I could do without CarPlay & Android auto though. My Explorer has it, but I rarely use it. Bluetooth works for me.

well, from where did you move, Florida? :D

(and I agree with you--but I do see a lot of people these days that bitch about new model year in mid-upper tier cars not coming with heated wheels, and now the biggee: ventilated seats. Yes, I would love ventilated seats)
Ventilated seats are very nice
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,206
6,799
136
My question is, how necessary is the heated steering in a Tesla? I know the heating is supposed to come on much more quickly than in a conventional car, so in theory that wheel won't feel cold for very long.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,387
5,255
136
The new Cadillac Escalade with Super Cruise looks pretty nice:


I love the light-up steering wheel for when self-driving is activated. This should be a mandatory feature in all FSD cars imo.

"The new Escalade will also offer augmented reality navigation with three-dimensional sound cues. A view of the road ahead will be displayed on the big OLED screen in front of the driver. Arrows giving turning instructions will appear in just the place on the road where the maneuver should happen. At the same time, voice alerts about upcoming turns will sound as if they are coming from the side toward which the turn should be taken."

This is an interesting approach...instead of a HUD, you get, maybe a camera? Or some sort of 3D rendering for augmented reality? Curious to see how this works.

Starts at $75k tho, which is more than a fully-loaded Y.

interior.jpg
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,387
5,255
136
My question is, how necessary is the heated steering in a Tesla? I know the heating is supposed to come on much more quickly than in a conventional car, so in theory that wheel won't feel cold for very long.

I thought it was a stupid feature until I got a car with one. It's awesome & I love it so much haha. My hands are like cold conductors & having a heated wheel really changes the game for me.

I guess you could compare it to heated seats. Not really necessary, but super nice on a cold winter day even in a heated car! Definitely not a dealbreaker for everyone, but a very nice perk to have.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,387
5,255
136
Tesla’s secret Roadrunner project: new battery production at $100 per kWh on a massive scale:


"One source told Electrek that CEO Elon Musk is pushing to have one of those new battery packs with the new Tesla-made battery cells ready to install in a Model S or Model X for the “Battery Investor Day” in April."

Oh dang, sign me up for a 400-mile Y please!!
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,458
987
126
This is the problem with Tesla. You cannot get everything you would want or could get on a competitors car. It’s silly really. It’s why I’ve got a reservation GV80. It’s in the same price range as the Y. EVs to me still haven’t crossed that threshold of being worthwhile at their current price points. No when you have to make silly compromises. Maybe my next go around in theee years EVs will be even more prevelant, more full features, and you won’t have to make silly compromises.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,907
2,057
126
Correct. If the absorbing barrier was fixed from the previous crash, the Model X driver would've lived. NTSB really has no real power and is just seeking publicity. Now NHTSA has power and is real government agency. And they just ignore NTSB just like Tesla is doing. Think of NTSB as attention seeking paid consultants.

The real fault lies with the driver of the X. He would've died lot sooner in any other car. The moron was playing video game on his iPhone while the car was going like 70 mph on the highway. In an area he knew Autopilot had problems. He won the Darwin award.
As expected, a bullshit response from you. How many other cars semi-autonomously drive you around on highways? And of the ones that do, which make a real effort to monitor the driver for attentiveness?

It would be impossible with the vast majority of cars on the road, and of new models for sale, to play an iPhone game 2 handed and still control the car at highway speed (or any speed). So no, he doesn't die sooner in any other car. He simply wouldn't have attempted to win the Darwin award at all.

Secondly, given an unattentive driver, which current driver assist features on the market would have misunderstood the highway gore at that part of Highway 101/85 ? I also assign the driver primary responsibility for his death, but you have zero proof Cadillac Super Cruise or any other L2 system steers the car into death and destruction.

Finally, the NTSB report also faults Apple for doing nothing to prevent people from actively using their iPhones while driving. While this is more a problem for the automakers to solve, smartphone makers can and should consider ways to prevent drivers from using their phones.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,206
6,799
136
I thought it was a stupid feature until I got a car with one. It's awesome & I love it so much haha. My hands are like cold conductors & having a heated wheel really changes the game for me.

I guess you could compare it to heated seats. Not really necessary, but super nice on a cold winter day even in a heated car! Definitely not a dealbreaker for everyone, but a very nice perk to have.

Ah, thanks. I suspect I'd get on without it just fine, but if Tesla could roll that into its 'entry' models, that'd be quite nice.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,387
5,255
136
How many other cars semi-autonomously drive you around on highways? And of the ones that do, which make a real effort to monitor the driver for attentiveness?

It would be impossible with the vast majority of cars on the road, and of new models for sale, to play an iPhone game 2 handed and still control the car at highway speed (or any speed). So no, he doesn't die sooner in any other car. He simply wouldn't have attempted to win the Darwin award at all.

Secondly, given an unattentive driver, which current driver assist features on the market would have misunderstood the highway gore at that part of Highway 101/85 ? I also assign the driver primary responsibility for his death, but you have zero proof Cadillac Super Cruise or any other L2 system steers the car into death and destruction.

Finally, the NTSB report also faults Apple for doing nothing to prevent people from actively using their iPhones while driving. While this is more a problem for the automakers to solve, smartphone makers can and should consider ways to prevent drivers from using their phones.

It's a tricky situation:

1. It's Autopilot's fault that it crashed the crash & killed the drive. It did not perform as designed. Note that software is still a WIP (beta).

2. Legally, it's the driver's fault. Also, yes, he should have known better, but there's more to that story (in a minute).

3. Market forces have created what I call the "Lull of Complacency": as humans, we are habit-driven creatures, which means we have mental files on how things work & have worked in the past. Autopilot Beta is good enough that it works most of the time. The problem with that is our brains create a habit out of it, and in the event of a problem...we rely on our habit, which can kill us in this case. Every single Tesla owner I know IRL has admitted to playing with their phone while driving, because you just get used to it. It's not the programmer's fault, because they are being paid to write software. Musk is under pressure from the market to get it out the door & make it name-brand. The process itself is iterative & requires extensive testing, which is what the giant beta program is for.

I do hold Tesla accountable for putting out software that kills people without having more safety nets in place, like attention tracking via a camera. And I also hold the drivers responsible, because they know going in it's a beta program & they need to stay alert...but Tesla has set a trap for them to easily fall into. They could put in geofencing so you can't use it on back roads, and driver-alert systems, and so on, but they also don't want it to be so cumbersome that people don't easily adopt it. And if we're being honest here, very few people who drive a Tesla have no idea what the car is capable of...you're making an expensive decision that requires a home charging infrastructure, phone integration, etc., so it's not like drivers are going in blind & paying $7,000 without realizing it's not fully-baked software.

4. The beta program is an easy legal get-out-of-jail-free card. Tesla will 100% disown you as soon as something bad happens, just read up on any Tesla forum out there - "too bad, it's beta, you knew what you were getting into, you should have paid attention, it's risky!". Case in point:


I'm a huge Tesla fanboy, but I also don't look at them through rose-colored glasses:

1. They are expensive. Even a basic Model 3 with AP is going to run you $40k+. Plus a charger for home use. Plus annual fees for the Premium services.
2. They are a hassle. You can't fill up an empty tank in 2 minutes at any gas station anywhere in the country.
3. You can't get a human on the phone. Takes forever. Customer service is really crappy right now.
4. If you get in an accident, get damage, or otherwise have problems, the service centers are super backed up.
5. Tesla will absolutely throw you to the wolves & wash their hands of you should you have a "beta" software issue, like an accident. When push comes to shove, they will 100% not have your back.

Now, is that the end of the world? Not really, it's just whether those parameters are acceptable to you or not. If you can afford the car, if you can afford the downtime, if the battery life works into your regular routine, and if you stay alert & attentive to the machine while in FSD mode, then it's a pretty awesome car to have. The majority of Tesla owners I know reach Apple levels of happiness with their products - it makes their lives better & they really enjoy owning & driving their machines. Every vehicle & every car brand has their warts, it's more of a matter of what you're personally willing to put up with. Corvettes are terrible cars...no room, scrape on everything...but if you like Corvettes, then you're willing to put up with the hassles!

As far as playing games in the car, that's an incredibly tricky problem to solve. How do you determine if the driver is using the phone & not the passenger, for example? Like, I plug my phone into my car for Carplay, but my wife will act as navigator with the phone in her hand while connected. This is partly why I feel there's such a big need for true FSD...people make super-dumb decisions while operating 2-ton metal vehicles. One of the reasons I stopped road biking was because a lady in a stationwagon nicked me & grazed my biking buddy, which caused him to fall into a ditch. I tried waving her down to get her attention, but she was multi-tasking...putting on makeup & on her phone & driving. People are irresponsible at times...if we could automate driving to negate that issue, that would be amazing!
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
17,914
838
126
I've got ventilated in my current ride & it helps with the back sweat on leather seats in the summer, no joke.
I have it in my Ford, and agree with you. While not a deal breaker, I will miss it if it's not in the Cybertruck.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,907
2,057
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I've got ventilated in my current ride & it helps with the back sweat on leather seats in the summer, no joke.
I personally think heated front seats are a must-have (guess I don't care about the rear, as I'm almost always the driver) for a few cold weeks during the year. Have never tried ventilated seats but it's probably really sweet here in SoCal.

Thanks for the thoughtful response about AutoPilot, and Tesla's market position. I was merely responding to the TSLA shill's idiotic claim that guy who died in an AP crash "would've died lot sooner in any other car." It's just a nonsense claim to make. I assign MUCH of the blame to the victim, but like in many transportation accidents, it's a chain of events that led to death. To remove AutoPilot completely from that chain is hubris, ignorance, or both.

As far as specific remedies, if AutoPilot did eye tracking like Cadillac Super Cruise, it wouldn't be abused so much. Would that save many lives? No, not really as far as we know. Apparently, iPhone OS already has a "Do not disturb while driving" feature, but this must be activated by the driver. I agree with you it's not an easy thing to implement on the phone side without pissing a lot of people off, so obviously it should be handled on the car side. But distracted driving has become a major societal problem, and you'd hope that Apple and Google at least spend some time trying to solve it.

Finally, do I really buy the argument that the only way AutoPilot improves as much as it could is to have it out in the wild as a beta program? Not necessarily. Tesla is now sitting on mountains of AP data, so has racking up many millions more miles than anyone else brought them closer to FSD? Waymo is one of the current leaders and to our knowledge, their closed-end beta hasn't killed anybody yet.
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Why are you interested in buying Tesla stock? All of you please do not buy. It's going to $0. Please let me buy it all and go bankrupt. :D

Hey... if it drops enough, it might actually be a buy. I'd imagine that my buy in number is a wee bit lower than yours, though :)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,387
5,255
136
I personally think heated front seats are a must-have (guess I don't care about the rear, as I'm almost always the driver) for a few cold weeks during the year. Have never tried ventilated seats but it's probably really sweet here in SoCal.

Thanks for the thoughtful response about AutoPilot, and Tesla's market position. I was merely responding to the TSLA shill's idiotic claim that guy who died in an AP crash "would've died lot sooner in any other car." It's just a nonsense claim to make. I assign MUCH of the blame to the victim, but like in many transportation accidents, it's a chain of events that led to death. To remove AutoPilot completely from that chain is hubris, ignorance, or both.

As far as specific remedies, if AutoPilot did eye tracking like Cadillac Super Cruise, it wouldn't be abused so much. Would that save many lives? No, not really as far as we know. Apparently, iPhone OS already has a "Do not disturb while driving" feature, but this must be activated by the driver. I agree with you it's not an easy thing to implement on the phone side without pissing a lot of people off, so obviously it should be handled on the car side. But distracted driving has become a major societal problem, and you'd hope that Apple and Google at least spend some time trying to solve it.

Finally, do I really buy the argument that the only way AutoPilot improves as much as it could is to have it out in the wild as a beta program? Not necessarily. Tesla is now sitting on mountains of AP data, so has racking up many millions more miles than anyone else brought them closer to FSD? Waymo is one of the current leaders and to our knowledge, their closed-end beta hasn't killed anybody yet.

Yeah like you said, it's a chain of events:

1. The driver wasn't paying attention & is ultimately responsible for the actions of his car
2. Autopilot is directly responsible for the accident
3. Tesla is really the ones responsible for the accident due to the "lull of complacency" issue, knowing that people would fall into the habit trap & end up injured or dead, but they're also subject to market forces

We're just in that crappy pre-true FSD phase where things have to get better before they get perfect(ish).
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,387
5,255
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Dang the seats look WAY higher in the 3, AWESOME!! Can't wait to test-drive one!

It's not as sexy as the 3 (big ole marshmallow), but it looks way more practical...more space, more headroom, more storage room, etc.

head2head.jpg