Techreport 7950 vs. GTX 660 Ti "Smoothness" videos

[3DVagabond]

Yep, but it's still pretty farfetched at this point. Very farfetched in fact. Even supposing said issue ever gets verified and if it were true and related to drivers AMD would likely just release an updated driver so there's be no point in going back to 12.7.

Regardless of that minor detail there is far more to determine what's even going on and that is getting pretty far ahead of the wagon.

If your filter didn't filter out the other points you'd see that. Looking at Scotts earlier reviews including the 570, it was horrible with frametimes - whatever that even means in the end. Yet the 570 was never flamed.

There are so many inconsistencies and double standards here that it's not even funny.

Yes, by these measurements the 6970 was far "smoother" than the 570. Since we have painted AMD with the wide brush we could do the same to nVidia and apply these results to all their cards, or all Fermi cards, whatever fits anyone's agenda.

Anyone who owned(s) a 570 ever notice just how bad of a stuttering mess that card is? I don't recall any complaints.

 

[Keysplayr]

Yep, but it's still pretty farfetched at this point. Very farfetched in fact. Even supposing said issue ever gets verified and if it were true and related to drivers AMD would likely just release an updated driver so there's be no point in going back to 12.7.

Regardless of that minor detail there is far more to determine what's even going on and that is getting pretty far ahead of the wagon.

If your filter didn't filter out the other points you'd see that. Looking at Scotts earlier reviews including the 570, it was horrible with frametimes - whatever that even means in the end. Yet the 570 was never flamed.

There are so many inconsistencies and double standards here that it's not even funny.

And the funniest thing of all is to watch new ideas and angles form out of almost nothing to try and squash this. It would be downright hysterical if is wasn't so pitiful. From incompatible keyboards to the reviewer borking the installation of the Radeon drivers to game engine tampering. It just doesn't get un-fun.

 

[thilanliyan]

And the funniest thing of all is to watch new ideas and angles form out of almost nothing to try and squash this.

It will not get "squashed" I'm sure before other sites investigate also.

But there are inconsistencies brought up by people here not to "squash" an investigation, but because the only source of evidence people are using here is TR. If TR is the only review site currently making a big deal out of this, then you have to dissect their reviews to make sure there is nothing wonky about it. In other words, if most review sites were saying the same thing as TR, we can likely conclude that it is in fact a real issue. Until then, people are going to be skeptical, and it is not something sinister going on in the background to derail any investigation.

I'll give you an example, if I suddenly came out with some frame time graphs showing 680 SLI to be much worse than a 7970 XFire for microstutter, wouldn't you be skeptical and dissect my testing methods, my comp, etc? I'm guessing you would, and that's because the general consensus would disagree with those graphs I produced. IMO the same thing is happening here...people are skeptical because TR is the only one currently reporting on this.

 

[lavaheadache]

And the funniest thing of all is to watch new ideas and angles form out of almost nothing to try and squash this. It would be downright hysterical if is wasn't so pitiful. From incompatible keyboards to the reviewer borking the installation of the Radeon drivers to game engine tampering. It just doesn't get un-fun.

Honestly, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Tech Report showed us a game with hitching that frankly I always saw hitching in. I played Skyrim extensively with a 580,680 and 7970. They all sucked. I'm not sure if the level of suckieness differed at all but not enough that I thought that the nvidia card was giving me the experience I wanted.... only a frame cap did that.

Far cry 3 is an even more so stuttery mess given you use the right settings.

What is truly funny is that I'm willing to bet that the folks who are claiming that there is no stuttering are running at 1920x1200 or less with high powered cards. That is because the game is only a mess below 60 fps and it takes 2560 to do that to a 680/670 or 7970.

Key's do you have a 2560 screen and Far cry 3?

 

[Keysplayr]

No, I don't have 2560 nor do I have FC3. I disliked FC2 so much I couldn't bring myself to get the 3rd.
Who knows, maybe AMD will deliver a new 12.11a beta tomorrow and fix all this mess in one shot.

 

[lavaheadache]

No, I don't have 2560 nor do I have FC3. I disliked FC2 so much I couldn't bring myself to get the 3rd.
Who knows, maybe AMD will deliver a new 12.11a beta tomorrow and fix all this mess in one shot.

lol, Far cry 2 was not what I exected it to be either but once you start using the busses to get around the game got a lot better.

I'm not sure how much of a mess is out there to fix. As Apoppin is already suggesting, it seems like there are titles from both camps that are a displaying issues. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a fix if there is one in the works but till then the only game other than FC3 (which seems to be busted on both sides) I have only seen single gpu stutters in Skyrim (again something I saw with nvidia cards too), which a frame cap solves.

 

[Keysplayr]

lol, Far cry 2 was not what I exected it to be either but once you start using the busses to get around the game got a lot better.

I'm not sure how much of a mess is out there to fix. As Apoppin is already suggesting, it seems like there are titles from both camps that are a displaying issues. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a fix if there is one in the works but till then the only game other than FC3 (which seems to be busted on both sides) I have only seen single gpu stutters in Skyrim (again something I saw with nvidia cards too), which a frame cap solves.

I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[KCfromNC]

And the funniest thing of all is to watch new ideas and angles form out of almost nothing to try and squash this.

Sad that honest investigation using all sources of data is twisted to something sinister, but I guess that's what happens when a forum thread threatens to get off the desired marketing message.

 

[Keysplayr]

Sad that honest investigation using all sources of data is twisted to something sinister, but I guess that's what happens when a forum thread threatens to get off the desired marketing message.

I guess?

 

[lavaheadache]

Originally Posted by Keysplayr
And the funniest thing of all is to watch new ideas and angles form out of almost nothing to try and squash this.


Isn't that how you evaluate a problem?

I know you guys love my 3+ year old quote's so here is another one that is related to what Key's said and ironically the topic at hand.

I've run a 7800 GT sli rig and a 8800gt sli rig. I definately enjoy the benefits of having 2 video cards but I've always noticed a little bit of stuttereing even when my frames were really high. Is there someting I can do about it(besides taking out a card) or will I always be plagued by this phenomena.

microstutter


*** holy bejesus, batman.....

I think I found the source to my microstutter problem. It seems as though it's sorta mouse related. Bear with me on this and also if you can perform these actions too and confirm what I have found that would be most help full.
OK, first off the easiest way to see the micro stutter for me in the most repeatable fashion was in COD4. I would start a new server and load Downpour(lots of foliage that caused the stuttering). Now run over to a very large bush usually on the border of the map. Now looking from side to side would cause lots of little hiccups, so the first thing to do was enable vsync. This actually made the problem much worse, or so I thought. I noticed that if I strafed from side to side the foliage was liquid smooth. The second I touch my mouse to look side to side hiccup city. so I mapped my keyboard to "look " functions and viaola, Every thing is smooth as hell. So I thought made my problem was the mouse itself(razer copperhead). No biggie I have lots of mice. I tried each one and none of them would make the stuttering go away. Yet keyboard looking and playing was as smooth as using a single GPU. ah yes, I can cofirm that single gpu doesn't have this problem, only SLi, and only SLi with a mouse!!
Anybody have any suggestions? My next guess is if something is going on with my usb ports, but I dont seem to think this is the problem either

Comes from this thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=145481&highlight= back in early 08

 

[lavaheadache]

even more ironic, this is the next post in that thread....

Switch to AMD?




sorry .. i haven't experienced it enough to notice it in games.

who'd a thunk!



History really can come back to bite some people in the ass

 

[Rikard]

Skyrim has a vsync option by default (called iPresentInterval=0 in the SkyrimPrefs.ini file). The Creation engine really depends on this and some pretty funky glitches happen if you turn it off and get high FPS.

I tried this in 12.11 beta and it has no effect for me. FPS stays at a constant 60 and there is no stuttering whatsoever. I wonder if one of my mods is overriding this setting?

 

[Rikard]

It amuses me when people are ultra skeptical about a rather large site's findings, but are willing to accept the word of john q forumposter on any speculation that they did something incorrect based on no evidence, and just a few claims.

It amuses me even more when people on forums accept anything they read on some site somewhere on the Internet as truth without bothering to check it out for themselves...

 

[Siberian]

I wonder what sort of memo AMD sent out to its supporters regarding this issue.

 

[KingFatty]

I think if you use logic and reason, you can see if there is an inconsistency or logical fallacy to something.

If results are based on good science/procedure, then it will be immune to attack and stand up to criticism.

But if it's just speculative anecdotal messing around, and it is self-contradictory on top of that, then it's nice for people to point that out.

I think some of the criticism is itself speculative/biased/emotionally-based, so when you see that, you can disregard it (laugh it off). But if the criticism really hits home and makes you think, then maybe there is a point to it. It hurts when there is a kernel of truth to it, as opposed to just saying something like "yo momma..."

 

[Rikard]

I wonder what sort of memo AMD sent out to its supporters regarding this issue.

It said
"Dear costumer,

We have received reports that the Video Cards and Graphics forum at AnandTech is frequented by number of individuals that do not believe in rational thinking and the scientific method. They will try to turn any message into either supporting their original statement, or accuse the messenger of faking data. A fair number of these people are also known to believe in ghost stories and alien abductions, based on the same cognitive mechanisms and erroneous reasoning.

Do not approach them under any circumstances! They never add anything to the discussion, and will instead either respond by failed witty one-liners or enter a state of neird-rage.

Sincerely,
The evil AMD director"

Unfortunately I got the memo too late.

But seriously, why don't you post your own findings? This is an enthusiast forum after all.

 

[BrightCandle]

TechReport have a podcast up talking about the benchmarks and everything they tried to validate their results. Really interesting. http://techreport.com/review/24059/tr-christmas-2012-system-guide

Well worth the listen.

 

[Keysplayr]

A very good listen. Thanks for the link!
Starts to talk about GeForce vs Radeon at around the 40 minute mark.

 

[Aristotelian]

Glad I made the right choice, for myself anyways. Everyone was going on about the 7970 and the price/performance. I stuck with my gut and went with a gtx 670. I play skyrim exclusively so this could have been really bad had I went AMD.
I'm busy either working or working on my house most days. I don't have the time or desire to fool around with drivers or tweaks. I just need it to work and work right. Nvidia wins in that category hands down.

What category is that? In Starcraft II after a previous driver update from Nvidia my SLI 580s slowed to a crawl for an inexplicable reason that was solved after reverting to the older drivers. I had a similar issue in Diablo III. Nvidia certainly does not win 'hands down', and if you're really busy in real life and play one game exclusively, perhaps your experience cannot realistically be extrapolated into a general Nvidia experience.

I am happy with my 580s on the whole, but I see no perceivable advantage with them over other CF rigs. I wish gamers like Adam(something) posted in VC&G to give definitive responses to this, as he has been using 7970 trifire for a while now, and with the thousands of games that he owns perhaps he'd be more of an authority on a general 'hands down' win than you would be.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Yes Nvidia wins hands down. Please read OP as it clearly shows how the AMD experience is clearly below the experience you get with a Nvidia card. I want my gaming experience to be as life like as possible and stuttering takes away from that.

 

[Elfear]

Yes Nvidia wins hands down. Please read OP as it clearly shows how the AMD experience is clearly below the experience you get with a Nvidia card. I want my gaming experience to be as life like as possible and stuttering takes away from that.

So you're extrapolating one website's experience to all AMD and Nvidia cards now? And you're giving more credence to one review site over all all others? Cognitive dissonance much?

 

[Keysplayr]

Podcast is very informative and perhaps answers a few questions. Perhaps you should give a listen.

 

[thilanliyan]

What category is that? In Starcraft II after a previous driver update from Nvidia my SLI 580s slowed to a crawl for an inexplicable reason that was solved after reverting to the older drivers. I had a similar issue in Diablo III. Nvidia certainly does not win 'hands down', and if you're really busy in real life and play one game exclusively, perhaps your experience cannot realistically be extrapolated into a general Nvidia experience.

Some people will claim nV has better drivers no matter what. I personally have had more issues with nV drivers (G80 era), but it did not stop me from buying more nvidia cards as I don't and have never had any emotional attachment to any brand...unfortunately you can't say the same about some people here.

And at the end of the day, they are video cards and it is not the end of the world if some issues present themselves. I consider myself an enthusiast (relative to some people I know) so I don't mind dealing with a few issues if they crop up. If I just wanted something that worked straight out of the box with very little technical input from me, I'd probably just game on a console, or maybe buy an Apple comp.

Yes Nvidia wins hands down. Please read OP as it clearly shows how the AMD experience is clearly below the experience you get with a Nvidia card. I want my gaming experience to be as life like as possible and stuttering takes away from that.

This coming from the person who "read" that AMD cards don't support 120Hz... :\ I disagree with your opinion that nvidia wins hands down.

 

[Jaydip]

So you're extrapolating one website's experience to all AMD and Nvidia cards now? And you're giving more credence to one review site over all all others? Cognitive dissonance much?

I believe only TR shows frame time data in their reviews so we don't have much data to compare.But going through that review it seems that AMD driver team needs to do some extra work.If they indeed traded "smoothness" for raw "fps" they should give a choice to the end user to choose one.

 

[Aristotelian]

Yes Nvidia wins hands down. Please read OP as it clearly shows how the AMD experience is clearly below the experience you get with a Nvidia card. I want my gaming experience to be as life like as possible and stuttering takes away from that.

Please read the internet. Lots of ATI/AMD gamers do not have the microstuttering you are championing here, and the microstuttering seems dependent on drivers, on various hardware configurations, etc - it is not an intrinsic bug present in all ATI/AMD hardware. I know this with certainty as I considered upgrading from 580 SLI to 7970 CF and tried this out on a friend's rig, but didn't notice enough of a framerate difference in the games I play to make it worth it. In short, you don't know what you're talking about.