Teachers telling kids private ownership is wrong..

[Zolty]

From those with the greatest ability to those of the greatest need, I will see you guys in Galt's Gulch.

 

[d3n]

Originally posted by: skace
Your houses should all be standard sizes? That sounds like communism.

Bingo, only communism encourages the public school system or schooling by the government as I like to say. Someone told me about a classroom where school supplies that kids brought in at the beginning of the year where put it into a community box for everyone to use. There it is again, first year of public shcool the very first lesson is about the confiscation of private property.

These kind of education methods fall into the area of using the government to enforce someones political views on another. Weather its crying for a constitutional amendment on marriage or teaching kids this crap.

Parents need to assume responsibility in finding out what and how their kids are learning and how it is being taught to them. I think this country is the best because it has a system set up to keep the Government out of my life as much as possible. These socialist notions are making that status quo harder and harder to maintain.

 

[yhelothar]

Same thing with my publich hs econ teacher, who attempted to brainwash everyone to be his little socialists.
He spouts out bullshit statistics such as 1% of america owns 99% of everything.
Most of the kids in the class were dumb enough to believe his crap.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: razor2025
I don't see this as being ridiculous at all. I find that schools in US lack teachings in being part of the community.

The teachers then explored with the students concepts of fairness, equity, power, and other issues over a period of several months.

This isn't about "OMG COMMIES". This is about teachers teaching common sense to kids. Most kids I've interact lately have been quite selfish and self-centered. It's about time, there's a re-balancing in order. Sure, the standard sizes thing was a bit over-the-top, yet isn't that what we already experience in reality? Ever heard of building codes?

On a side note, I find ATOT's hate towards anything involving "fairness" and "sharing" disturbing. Not everything involving equality and/or community ownership has to be "OMG COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM". Even in our quasi-capitalistic society, we have things like public domain and civil confiscation.

Life is not fair. "Fair" is only achieved by violating the rights of others.

You can be free, or fair. Not both.

As for sharing, it has to be voluntary. Forced sharing is theft.

How can you teach sharing without actually practicing it? If a school is a place to learn, then teaching the concept of sharing through practice makes perfect sense.

As for fairness, why shouldn't it be taught? Is there something distinctively evil about it? Sure, the ideal "fairness & justice" may never be achieved, but what's the problem with giving kids at least the idea of such notion. We fault kids for being selfish and self-centered already.

We already have to share by force. As long as we live in a society amongst others, we've been sharing intentionally or unintentionally. I don't advocate 100% community ownership, but I find that there's a strange hostility towards such noble notion. As with any issues, moderation and common sense should be applied, not extremes.

 

[spaceman]

you have no rights owning someone else privates unless propositioned.

 

[Tobolo]

Repost.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: joshsquall
I seem to have forgotten the part where teachers are supposed to insert their own beliefs into their lesson plans. Obviously it's a private school and they can do what they want, but this is just ridiculous. How can these people actually be licensed?

That's just stupid. There is always a bias in teaching social sciences (I'm guessing the class in question is teaching this subject) and literature. The very nature of the subjects are based upon bias.

Bias in the teaching materials (textbooks, reused worksheets and projects, etc.) can be mitigated by a good teacher. Bias in the presentation of the material by the teacher would be grounds for termination if I were a principal. Present every opinion on a subject. Don't tell kids "this is good, this is bad". The media is bad enough.. we don't need the facts our children hear getting any more twisted.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: razor2025
I don't see this as being ridiculous at all. I find that schools in US lack teachings in being part of the community.

The teachers then explored with the students concepts of fairness, equity, power, and other issues over a period of several months.

This isn't about "OMG COMMIES". This is about teachers teaching common sense to kids. Most kids I've interact lately have been quite selfish and self-centered. It's about time, there's a re-balancing in order. Sure, the standard sizes thing was a bit over-the-top, yet isn't that what we already experience in reality? Ever heard of building codes?

On a side note, I find ATOT's hate towards anything involving "fairness" and "sharing" disturbing. Not everything involving equality and/or community ownership has to be "OMG COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM". Even in our quasi-capitalistic society, we have things like public domain and civil confiscation.

Life is not fair. "Fair" is only achieved by violating the rights of others.

You can be free, or fair. Not both.

As for sharing, it has to be voluntary. Forced sharing is theft.

How can you teach sharing without actually practicing it? If a school is a place to learn, then teaching the concept of sharing through practice makes perfect sense.

As for fairness, why shouldn't it be taught? Is there something distinctively evil about it? Sure, the ideal "fairness & justice" may never be achieved, but what's the problem with giving kids at least the idea of such notion. We fault kids for being selfish and self-centered already.

We already have to share by force. As long as we live in a society amongst others, we've been sharing intentionally or unintentionally. I don't advocate 100% community ownership, but I find that there's a strange hostility towards such noble notion. As with any issues, moderation and common sense should be applied, not extremes.

There is nothing noble about it.

You do not teach sharing by taking things away from people by force. You teach sharing by instructing the children why it is good to share WILLINGLY.

And yes, there IS something distinctly "evil" about teaching children that private property is bad.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: d3n


Rant against communism....

Are you insane? Is a single bit of community sharing and helping others has become "COMMUNISM OMG!" issue now? Teachers ask for pooling of school supplies, because they need the help from the parents due to budget shortfalls. It's not about "brainwashing kids". If you're so worried about "brainwashing", then by all means, home-school your kids or take them somewhere else.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Bias in the teaching materials (textbooks, reused worksheets and projects, etc.) can be mitigated by a good teacher. Bias in the presentation of the material by the teacher would be grounds for termination if I were a principal. Present every opinion on a subject. Don't tell kids "this is good, this is bad". The media is bad enough.. we don't need the facts our children hear getting any more twisted.

I'm glad you're not a principal, because your school would either be taught by robots or no one at all. Sure, there are teachers who can mitigate their personal bias in the subject, but can you truly eliminate it? I doubt that. The simple act of not teaching one section, one view in regards to a subject become bias, even though time & resource restriction might have contributed to the "missing piece". There are other influences in kid's mind besides schools. Parents, religious services (if they attend), and the general community. You're asking for the impossible.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: Amused

There is nothing noble about it.

You do not teach sharing by taking things away from people by force. You teach sharing by instructing the children why it is good to share WILLINGLY.

And yes, there IS something distinctly "evil" about teaching children that private property is bad.

Did you have siblings? Did your parents "forced" you to share something with your brothers and sisters? I know mine did, and many others too. Was that "evil"? No, it taught about sharing scarce resources.

Humans, by nature, are selfish to being with. You don't need to teach a child how to be selfish, it's imprinted into their instinct since birth. "Sharing" is something that must be taught, because it is against their own instinct. Once they understand such concept, then by all means, that child can choose to accept it or deny it through his development. Remember, he/she has other influences in their lives, not just the teachers.

Forced taking of private property happens everyday. Whether it is legal or illegal, moral or immoral, it happens everyday in reality. Those teachers chose to apply this reality in "community sharing" scenario. The lesson can be also taught by kids having being bullied their milk money, forced to pay for their prom, and/or many other dealings with society and community as they grow up.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: Amused

There is nothing noble about it.

You do not teach sharing by taking things away from people by force. You teach sharing by instructing the children why it is good to share WILLINGLY.

And yes, there IS something distinctly "evil" about teaching children that private property is bad.

Did you have siblings? Did your parents "forced" you to share something with your brothers and sisters? I know mine did, and many others too. Was that "evil"? No, it taught about sharing scarce resources.

Humans, by nature, are selfish to being with. You don't need to teach a child how to be selfish, it's imprinted into their instinct since birth. "Sharing" is something that must be taught, because it is against their own instinct. Once they understand such concept, then by all means, that child can choose to accept it or deny it through his development. Remember, he/she has other influences in their lives, not just the teachers.

Forced taking of private property happens everyday. Whether it is legal or illegal, moral or immoral, it happens everyday in reality. Those teachers chose to apply this reality in "community sharing" scenario. The lesson can be also taught by kids having being bullied their milk money, forced to pay for their prom, and/or many other dealings with society and community as they grow up.

Are you anti-private property rights?

 

[d3n]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: d3n

Bingo, only communism encourages the public school system or schooling by the government as I like to say. Someone told me about a classroom where school supplies that kids brought in at the beginning of the year where put it into a community box for everyone to use. There it is again, first year of public shcool the very first lesson is about the confiscation of private property.

These kind of education methods fall into the area of using the government to enforce someones political views on another. Weather its crying for a constitutional amendment on marriage or teaching kids this crap.

Parents need to assume responsibility in finding out what and how their kids are learning and how it is being taught to them. I think this country is the best because it has a system set up to keep the Government out of my life as much as possible. These socialist notions are making that status quo harder and harder to maintain.

Are you insane? Is a single bit of community sharing and helping others has become "COMMUNISM OMG!" issue now? Teachers ask for pooling of school supplies, because they need the help from the parents due to budget shortfalls. It's not about "brainwashing kids". If you're so worried about "brainwashing", then by all means, home-school your kids or take them somewhere else.

Amused's previous post already answer your statements. Before you talk to me about community sharing let me tell you that I have 4 children in my house. Non of them are mine per sey but two are adopted. My wife, a former social worker does home school them, simply because they have some unique requirements in life.

The kind of community you and I both would like to live in can't be state mandated. Its brought about by independent people taking personal responsibility and being in a position to help others, not socials programs where everyone is me me me and trusting in the public school system to instill values in your kids for you. Thats just my take.

 

[eleison]

Teachers suck. They live in the world of Unions and such. There is basically no competition and they like it that way. Everytime someone tries to setup standards, the teachers always object. The reason they object is that standards would show how bad as a group they are doing.

Being teachers and having a strong teachers Union, its really hard to fire them. They can spout out all the communistic crap all they want. They know its going to take a lot to get them fired.

Personally, highschool, middle school... etc.. they are all surreal worlds. Most parents don't care what they are teaching. Its sometimes sad that its only when these people get into the "real world" that they know how society really works...

Society could fix the problem, but its going to take money and determination. Right now, a lot of people just considers pre-college education as some sort of "babysitting" system.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Are you anti-private property rights?

No, actually I'm quite fond of private property rights. However, I hate those who take everything to extreme. I'm not against private ownership. I am against those who are extremely selfish and doesn't acknowledge the existence of others. Extreme selfishness created scums like Enron CEOs.

 

[d3n]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Are you anti-private property rights?

No, actually I'm quite fond of private property rights. However, I hate those who take everything to extreme. I'm not against private ownership. I am against those who are extremely selfish and doesn't acknowledge the existence of others. Extreme selfishness created scums like Enron CEOs.

I will say that I think the Goverment is suited as an entity to do some things extremely well.
Protection of common resources (like the environment) and protecting private citizens from big business. I think our judicial system goofed when Corporations were able to assume the same rights as an individual. Oh and National Defense is a big one, I signed up to that gig for a while.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Are you anti-private property rights?

No, actually I'm quite fond of private property rights. However, I hate those who take everything to extreme. I'm not against private ownership. I am against those who are extremely selfish and doesn't acknowledge the existence of others. Extreme selfishness created scums like Enron CEOs.

Do you believe there should be a cap on wealth?

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: d3n

Amused's previous post already answer your statements. Before you talk to me about community sharing let me tell you that I have 4 children in my house. Non of them are mine per sey but two are adopted. My wife, a former social worker does home school them, simply because they have some unique requirements in life.

The kind of community you and I both would like to live in can't be state mandated. Its brought about by independent people taking personal responsibility and being in a position to help others, not socials programs where everyone is me me me and trusting in the public school system to instill values in your kids for you. Thats just my take.

Well that's great that you home school your kids. If you disagree with teaching methods, simply leave or fight against the school board to have changes in curriculum.

I didn't say that 100% of kid's value system should come from school. Kid grow their mind through interaction with everyone. There's not one single "ultimate good" source of influence for kids. As there are many good parents, there are 10x more bad ones. Whether the other influence makes the child a better person is completely up in air.

The community you and I want to live is idealistic utopia, and will never happen in reality. Individual initiatives are good, but grouping them together (i.e. social program) is much more effective. Long time ago, people decided that living amongst others was much more beneficial to themselves than living out alone. As you put is, everyone is concerned only for themselves, and rightly/instinctively so. That's why lessons like in the article isn't as bad as it seems.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: Amused

There is nothing noble about it.

You do not teach sharing by taking things away from people by force. You teach sharing by instructing the children why it is good to share WILLINGLY.

And yes, there IS something distinctly "evil" about teaching children that private property is bad.

Did you have siblings? Did your parents "forced" you to share something with your brothers and sisters? I know mine did, and many others too. Was that "evil"? No, it taught about sharing scarce resources.

Humans, by nature, are selfish to being with. You don't need to teach a child how to be selfish, it's imprinted into their instinct since birth. "Sharing" is something that must be taught, because it is against their own instinct. Once they understand such concept, then by all means, that child can choose to accept it or deny it through his development. Remember, he/she has other influences in their lives, not just the teachers.

Forced taking of private property happens everyday. Whether it is legal or illegal, moral or immoral, it happens everyday in reality. Those teachers chose to apply this reality in "community sharing" scenario. The lesson can be also taught by kids having being bullied their milk money, forced to pay for their prom, and/or many other dealings with society and community as they grow up.

I had 4 older sisters.

Anything they did nto want others playing with or useing was to be in there bedroom. OF course i could not go into the room without permission.

forced taking of private property is thieft. the prom and such is not mandatory.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Are you anti-private property rights?

No, actually I'm quite fond of private property rights. However, I hate those who take everything to extreme. I'm not against private ownership. I am against those who are extremely selfish and doesn't acknowledge the existence of others. Extreme selfishness created scums like Enron CEOs.

No, a lack of morality, ethics and lawbreaking created scums like Enron's criminals.

Selfishness had very little to do with it.

 

[getbush]

In communist Seattle, the LEGOS own YOU!

I'm not having kids unless I'm sure I have enough time to counter-brainwash them to my own way of thinking. I'll be damned if I'll let someone else raise my kids as dirty hippies.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: razor2025
I don't see this as being ridiculous at all. I find that schools in US lack teachings in being part of the community.

The teachers then explored with the students concepts of fairness, equity, power, and other issues over a period of several months.

This isn't about "OMG COMMIES". This is about teachers teaching common sense to kids. Most kids I've interact lately have been quite selfish and self-centered. It's about time, there's a re-balancing in order. Sure, the standard sizes thing was a bit over-the-top, yet isn't that what we already experience in reality? Ever heard of building codes?

On a side note, I find ATOT's hate towards anything involving "fairness" and "sharing" disturbing. Not everything involving equality and/or community ownership has to be "OMG COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM". Even in our quasi-capitalistic society, we have things like public domain and civil confiscation.

This isn't "fairness" and "sharing." The irony of communism/socialism is that it is one of the most selfish and self-centered systems of government ever devised. The state is not our parents, it is not God. The desire to "save the world" is always a disguise for the desire to selfishly force the world to conform to your personal vision of how you think you should be.

BTW, I wouldn't say we live in a capitalistic society when a corporation, a collectivist organization by definition, is granted the same rights as individuals. In fact, it is another bit of irony that the bitter class struggle the various collectivist activists refer to is actually the result of collectivism, i.e. the corporate entity has all the rights of individual, squared and cubed, with none of the liabilities. Individuals can't compete against their power.

But hey, keep whining your brainwashed garbage about the evil selfishness of individuals...

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Are you anti-private property rights?

No, actually I'm quite fond of private property rights. However, I hate those who take everything to extreme. I'm not against private ownership. I am against those who are extremely selfish and doesn't acknowledge the existence of others. Extreme selfishness created scums like Enron CEOs.

Do you believe there should be a cap on wealth?

No, I don't have any problems with someone massing great amount of wealth. I do have a problem when such wealth is created by immoral/illegal actions (exactly what Enron CEOs do). I also have problem, when said persons exert much greater political influence than others with lesser wealth, but I guess that's the Achille's knees of representative government.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Amused
There is nothing noble about it.

You do not teach sharing by taking things away from people by force. You teach sharing by instructing the children why it is good to share WILLINGLY.

And yes, there IS something distinctly "evil" about teaching children that private property is bad.

It's a private school, let them teach wahtever they want to teach.

The let the parents pull their kids out, the school will close, and everyone's happy.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: getbush
In communist Seattle, the LEGOS own YOU!

I'm not having kids unless I'm sure I have enough time to counter-brainwash them to my own way of thinking. I'll be damned if I'll let someone else raise my kids as dirty hippies.

you'll have to home school and then home college them.

good luck with that.