Teacher fired for using non preferred pronoun

[Starbuck1975]

I could see such a scenario too but I also see the school working it out with the parents. Should we remove that process and put in place a rigid system where parents can’t ask schools to work with their child? Because that seems like where you are headed with this.

We don’t need a rigid anything. Evolution in the form of biology provided a fairly simple template to follow. Expecting systems to accomodate the randomness of individual expression seems like a recipe for confusion.

 

[ivwshane]

Honestly I think teachers in general have enough shit to worry about these days - and people just keep wanting to shovel more shit on them. Nowadays they have to have one-on-one meetings with everyone and do meet and greets with parents, after hours support, and give summary reports to parents, etc... All on shit pay and dealing with asshole parents blaming them for their kid being stupid.

If you child needs special attention, then you need to be in a special attention classroom.

None of that is new and it’s all designed to inform the parents to help them be better parents. The school implemented these policies including proper pronoun use in order to produce better students.

I’ll give you that there are some shitty parents out there but if they are going to the school to ask them to accommodate their child, they don’t sound like shitty parents to me. And if treating people with respect is putting too much on a teacher then they should find a different career instead of helping to create another problem adult or suicide statistic.

 

[ivwshane]

We don’t need a rigid anything. Evolution in the form of biology provided a fairly simple template to follow. Expecting systems to accomodate the randomness of individual expression seems like a recipe for confusion.

Again, I’ll let the parents and school decide what’s best for the child.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Per the stories that have been presented it wasn’t the teacher making an error it was due to the teacher being coached, asked, ordered or whatever you want to call it by his superiors and he refused to comply.

There is an ongoing societal debate around gender dysphoria. For this case, now it will play out in the courts.

Again, I’ll let the parents and school decide what’s best for the child.

Many are things are what is best for children, but schools can’t possibly accomodate them all.

 

[ivwshane]

There is an ongoing societal debate around gender dysphoria. For this case, now it will play out in the courts.

Many are things are what is best for children, but schools can’t possibly accomodate them all.

Of course not and when they can’t they won’t but when they do it certainly shouldn’t be undermined by a subordinate. Do you agree with that?

 

[fskimospy]

I would counter that they’re the least equipped to handle the situation given that they’re firing a teacher because he made a gendered pronoun error, which is the equivalence of accidentally calling someone by the wrong name.

It would appear you are not equipped to discuss this because the teacher is not being fired for accidentally calling someone the wrong name or pronoun, they are being fired for insubordination by explicitly stating that they refuse to follow the directives of the administration as to how students should be referred to.

What you really mean is that they shouldn't be allowed to make this decision because they came to a decision you disagree with.

 

[woolfe9998]

Clearly the teacher should have been fired but I wouldn’t be sure it’s an open and shut case. After all, the Hobby Lobby decision said that people don’t have to obey laws if they don’t want to so long as they say it’s because of their religion.

All that aside this teacher sounds like a giant asshole. Can you imagine deciding to make such a big stink over what pronoun you use to refer to someone that you get fired over it?

Because he isn't just a bigot. He's a principled bigot. You have to admire people for sticking to their principles.

 

[fskimospy]

Because he isn't just a bigot. He's a principled bigot. You have to admire people for sticking to their principles.

Imagine being the person who realizes he needs to make that principled stand and decides to do so by being mean to a child.

 

[HomerJS]

No - admittedly, I don''t think it was worth such a fight from the teacher. Come to think of it, I can't see a reason why a teacher would need to use pronouns in a classroom unless it involves a discussion with 2+ students which isn't often. So in a sense, I agree that it's a stupid fight.

I would have at least taken a neutral point of refusing to use pronouns but would be willing to call by name or neutral words such as "you".

Question if you work with someone named Michael, you call him Mike. He says I prefer you use Michael, what to you do?

 

[Starbuck1975]

It would appear you are not equipped to discuss this because the teacher is not being fired for accidentally calling someone the wrong name or pronoun, they are being fired for insubordination by explicitly stating that they refuse to follow the directives of the administration as to how students should be referred to.

What you really mean is that they shouldn't be allowed to make this decision because they came to a decision you disagree with.

In this case, it is now going to the courts because the administrators chose termination. I hope they have well documented procedures and corrective action plans.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Question if you work with someone named Michael, you call him Mike. He says I prefer you use Michael, what to you do?

Have Mike use the teacher’s restroom

 

[Fanatical Meat]

In this case, it is now going to the courts because the administrators chose termination. I hope they have well documented procedures and corrective action plans.

As I said earlier I bet they do because the it’s against my religion to lie thing is a pretty tough fight. Easier fight would be nobody told me not to do it.
Since lawyer opted for the uphill battle i am assuming paperwork is in order.
I guess we will see.

 

[dainthomas]

Actually, yes...I can. As a guy indoctrinated by Evangelicals for my entire youth, I can say they are the biggest group of two faced assholes I've ever encountered. Telling you all about how God is love while casting judgement on you simultaneously.

I also love how this guy's argument is basically a big temper tantrum, like religious nutter schools arent all over the place in the Bible belt. I guess then he couldn't spread his nonsense to others and +1 his feels by treating others as lower class citizens.



Please, people are forced to contradict their beliefs to maintain employment all the effin time. It's only religious nutters who pull this crap.

This plays right into the eternal victim complex that group has in this country. He'll doubtless get hired by some school that teaches Jesus was riding around on dinosaurs or something.

 

[fskimospy]

In this case, it is now going to the courts because the administrators chose termination. I hope they have well documented procedures and corrective action plans.

That will be irrelevant as he is stating that due to his religion he does not need to comply with the directives of administrators. He is not denying his willful insubordination, just that it should be fine for him to be insubordinate.

They told him repeatedly to do it, he refused. They eventually told him he must comply with the directives of his boss or be terminated and he refused. He was then fired for insubordination, same as anyone else would be.

 

[Starbuck1975]

As I said earlier I bet they do because the it’s against my religion to lie thing is a pretty tough fight. Easier fight would be nobody told me not to do it.
Since lawyer opted for the uphill battle i am assuming paperwork is in order.
I guess we will see.

There is no religious basis for his argument, so he will most likely lose. There is a biological and cultural argument, as gender correlates to both.

 

[mect]

So culture is the basis of language gender conjugation.

Yes, absolutely. Do you know any German? Look at the gender articles for many of the nouns. Das Maedchen. Das Fraulein. Do you think these are biologically based?

 

[dainthomas]

Great! It looks like we will spend centuries fighting each other now because my religion says I can only work four days a week and I get to determine when.

What's funny is you could actually do it. John Oliver did an episode on how easy it was to meet the government criteria of what constitutes a religion. It's probably on youtube.

There is little legal or societal precedence to support a supervisor making such demands.

Georgia is a right to work state. My understanding is that this means you can be fired for any reason other than belonging to a protected class. Which is probably why he's trying to make it a Jesus thing, rather than a being a dbag and ignoring management thing.

There is an ongoing societal debate around gender dysphoria.

No there isn't. We don't count regressive fundie science deniers.

 

[ch33zw1z]

There is no religious basis for his argument, so he will most likely lose. There is a biological and cultural argument, as gender correlates to both.

Wont matter, he's already a martyr in the war on deep state libtard cuck indoctrination in public schools.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yes, absolutely. Do you know any German? Look at the gender articles for many of the nouns. Das Maedchen. Das Fraulein. Do you think these are biologically based?

Somewhat. I was told that the nongendered forms exist to accomodate a singular scenario where the gender of the subject is unknown so as to avoid using the plural or nonspecifics, which can get pretty wordy in German.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

There is no religious basis for his argument, so he will most likely lose. There is a biological and cultural argument, as gender correlates to both.

Sort of took a long time to come to agreement but I’m happy we did.
Also provided there is a case where someone gets fired for using the wrong pronoun once or even a handful of times by accident over a period of time.

I’ll be right there with you.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Somewhat. I was told that the nongendered forms exist to accomodate a singular scenario where the gender of the subject is unknown so as to avoid using the plural or nonspecifics, which can get pretty wordy in German.

I can ask my trans woman church friend if you like. She is good at explaining this stuff but I’ll need you to give me very specific details as to what I should ask.

 

[brycejones]

I can’t believe we are arguing about an adult being fire for deliberately harassing a child in their care. This case is not anymore complicated than that.

 

[mect]

Somewhat. I was told that the nongendered forms exist to accomodate a singular scenario where the gender of the subject is unknown so as to avoid using the plural or nonspecifics, which can get pretty wordy in German.

Nope, they are non-specific purely because of how the words end. Any German noun that ends in -chen or -lein are neutral. The gender of these nouns within the language is determined purely by the ending of the word itself.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I can’t believe we are arguing about an adult being fire for deliberately harassing a child in their care. This case is not anymore complicated than that.

Only one person arguing, and their view of the world is a reflection of those who can't move on from yesteryear. I'd clutch my pearls, but I sold them to some super freaked out conservatives

 

[Vic]

The preferred pronoun thing is simply laughable.

No, children, I'm not going to acknowledge your stupidity by sticking my head in the sand with you. If you identify as an arabian unicorn and your preferred pronouns are Ze/Za/Zer then I simply won't acknowledge you.

This isn't a matter of "religious beliefs" it's a matter of not playing games with children and putting your big boy pants on in life.

If your personal opinions compel you to be disrespectful to your co-workers and disruptive in the workplace, then you are the one acting like a child.
Adults choose to do their fucking jobs, or find another place to work.