Teacher fired for using non preferred pronoun

[Starbuck1975]

Hasn’t your whole argument in this thread been about outliers? Or does slippery slope mean something different to you?

Also you didn’t answer my question, do you agree with this sentiment:

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Punitive responses rarely work for divisive policies, which is why you have groups of students demonstrating both in favor of and against this teacher.

There is no societal consensus on how to handle trangender students. When I was a kid, the parades in Disneyworld featured men in drag to depict Cinderella’s stepsisters. You can go to Las Vegas today and find shows that depict gender bending as a circus side show cultural oddity.

In other cultures that recognize multiple genders, this is a non issue. I think part of the problem is that gender noncomformity got tagged onto the end of the LBG movement.

Defying gender is also somewhat of an on trend parenting style, like the anti vaccine and organic everything trends before them.

Gender and language is a reflection of culture. Western civilization has a strong tradition of a gender binary aligned to sex. Cultural change is not going to happen overnight. I am not ready to fire people over it, because it makes them martyrs.

 

[Vic]

Punitive responses rarely work for divisive policies, which is why you have groups of students demonstrating both in favor of and against this teacher.

There is no societal consensus on how to handle trangender students. When I was a kid, the parades in Disneyworld featured men in drag to depict Cinderella’s stepsisters. You can go to Las Vegas today and find shows that depict gender bending as a circus side show cultural oddity.

In other cultures that recognize multiple genders, this is a non issue. I think part of the problem is that gender noncomformity got tagged onto the end of the LBG movement.

Defying gender is also somewhat of an on trend parenting style, like the anti vaccine and organic everything trends before them.

Gender and language is a reflection of culture. Western civilization has a strong tradition of a gender binary aligned to sex. Cultural change is not going to happen overnight. I am not ready to fire people over it, because it makes them martyrs.

He's only a martyr to the people who insist that their pseudo-religious tribalism entitles them free license to engage in disruptive anti-social behavior at their employer's expense. Because it's not the policy that is divisive here, it was the employee who refused to comply with it, even though it cost him nothing to do so.
Meanwhile, Jesus would have used the preferred gender. Not because He 'approves' of LGBT, but because He believes in kindness and love, and the forgiveness of sin. Real Christians know this. People who call themselves Christians so they can look down their noses at others... not so much. Just like the people who loudly proclaim to believe in freedom, but then fight against, and often falsely claim to be victimized by, every single benign exercise of freedom that they don't agree with, or would never choose to exercise themselves.

 

[ivwshane]

Punitive responses rarely work for divisive policies, which is why you have groups of students demonstrating both in favor of and against this teacher.

There is no societal consensus on how to handle trangender students. When I was a kid, the parades in Disneyworld featured men in drag to depict Cinderella’s stepsisters. You can go to Las Vegas today and find shows that depict gender bending as a circus side show cultural oddity.

In other cultures that recognize multiple genders, this is a non issue. I think part of the problem is that gender noncomformity got tagged onto the end of the LBG movement.

Defying gender is also somewhat of an on trend parenting style, like the anti vaccine and organic everything trends before them.

Gender and language is a reflection of culture. Western civilization has a strong tradition of a gender binary aligned to sex. Cultural change is not going to happen overnight. I am not ready to fire people over it, because it makes them martyrs.

So to be clear, you think a subordinate shouldn’t have to follow policies if said employee disagrees with it and you don’t think there should be any consequences to that employee either, correct?

So when the case of a county clerk came up, who refused to issue a marriage license to a gay couple because of religious reasons, you would have sided with the county clerk?

 

[Starbuck1975]

So to be clear, you think a subordinate shouldn’t have to follow policies if said employee disagrees with it and you don’t think there should be any consequences to that employee either, correct?

So when the case of a county clerk came up, who refused to issue a marriage license to a gay couple because of religious reasons, you would have sided with the county clerk?

In the case of the country clerk, today, no. Twenty years ago, a country clerk could have made that same decision, and it wouldn’t have even hit the news.

I think for cultural issues where society has yet to establish norms and laws, lets not burn anyone at the stake.

 

[ch33zw1z]

In the case of the country clerk, today, no. Twenty years ago, a country clerk could have made that same decision, and it wouldn’t have even hit the news.

I think for cultural issues where society has yet to establish norms and laws, lets not burn anyone at the stake.

Seems like the norms are established, and in this case a religious nutter flagrantly refused to adhere to a pretty simple request that would've have shown some maturity and manifest a respectful atmosphere in a classroom.

Burned at the stake? Tar and feather? Drama queen much?

This dude will have ample opportunities in this country, now he's a martyr for the cause.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Seems like the norms are established, and in this case a religious nutter flagrantly refused to adhere to a pretty simple request that would've have shown some maturity and manifest a respectful atmosphere in a classroom.

Burned at the stake? Tar and feather? Drama queen much?

This dude will have ample opportunities in this country, now he's a martyr for the cause.

I am guessing more than a few voters got off the couch due to marriage certificates and wedding cakes. It wouldn’t surprise me if even more do so over pronouns.

In your mind norms are established because you live in a part of the country that is less religious or homogenous.

In parts of the country that are still very religious and homogenous, the norms are quite different. You calling them nutters doesn’t really help.

 

[brycejones]

Yes we need to provide absolute freedom to harass children in the workplace or else it could be used as part of a culture war message to divert people from getting screwed over economically.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I am guessing more than a few voters got off the couch due to marriage certificates and wedding cakes. It wouldn’t surprise me if even more do so over pronouns.

In your mind norms are established because you live in a part of the country that is less religious or homogenous.

In parts of the country that are still very religious and homogenous, the norms are quite different. You calling them nutters doesn’t really help.

Social norms will vary place to place. Which pretty much negates your original statement that I just quoted anyways. Social norms won't be "established", and a GOP regime certainly won't be passing any legislation, so we're back to social norms basednon area.

In this case, the teacher was requested by the admin to respect another student in a fairly innocuous way. In were relying on social norms by area, then grab your bootstraps and move.

 

[pmv]

The defense of 'religious belief' really puts me off the guy. What kind of God gets all worked up over pronouns? It's trivialising religion to invoke it to defend such petulant behaviour.

If you have a religion that says you aren't allowed to directly speak to children who aren't your own, can you then be a silent teacher? The religion exemption is getting ridiculous, it's just a pretext for self-indulgence now. And also for making stupid political gestures disguised as religious ones. (I felt similarly about the female Muslim teacher here who insisted on being veiled in the classroom - when teaching young children).

I would feel more sympathy if his defense was simply that he kept forgetting and getting it wrong by accident/force of habit.

That said, language in general is a PITA. Happens in so many ways, that you can't communicate without picking a team or choosing an ideology.

 

[pmv]

Yup, I'm gonna to design my own and gather followers. "The unenlightened temple of ch33z" - I can only work from 8-5 M-F, anything else is against my religion.

As a Marxist, it's against my beliefs to produce any surplus value for my employer. Therefore I have to spend a proportion of the work day wasting time on the internet in order to prevent him making any profit.
(Hmmm, that's worryingly close to not being a joke, come to think of it...more a case of preparing my defence...).

 

[ch33zw1z]

As a Marxist, it's against my beliefs to produce any surplus value for my employer. Therefore I have to spend a proportion of the work day wasting time on the internet in order to prevent him making any profit.
(Hmmm, that's worryingly close to not being a joke, come to think of it...more a case of preparing my defence...).

Hey, you get what you pay for

 

[pmv]

Christians and Muslims will eventually come to realize their shared biases when it comes to the LGBTQ community. Will it still be considered Islamophobia I wonder when progressives and Muslims clash on this issue?

I don't get why you say that like it's a new issue. Clashes with Muslims over such topics happen regularly. What's interesting is how Muslim and Christian conservatives find it so incredibly difficult to make common cause, when they do have a lot they agree on. But it's always like that - look how riven with infighting the far-left and far-right are.

e.g.

Birmingham school stops LGBT lessons after parents protest

Hundreds of children withdrawn from Parkfield community school for day

www.theguardian.com

 

[ch33zw1z]

I don't get why you say that like it's a new issue. Clashes with Muslims over such topics happen regularly. What's interesting is how Muslim and Christian conservatives find it so incredibly difficult to make common cause, when they do have a lot they agree on. But it's always like that - look how riven with infighting the far-left and far-right are.

e.g.

Birmingham school stops LGBT lessons after parents protest

Hundreds of children withdrawn from Parkfield community school for day

www.theguardian.com

What I find ironic is when people don't want to rush to judgement in a culture, yet religion has been doing that exact thing for thousands of years.

 

[sactoking]

My place of work, a Healthcare environment, has monitors in the employee areas with news and notices. One of this quarter's notices is about making patients and enrollees feel welcome. The #1 item on the list: make people feel welcome by using their preferred name and pronoun.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

My place of work, a Healthcare environment, has monitors in the employee areas with news and notices. One of this quarter's notices is about making patients and enrollees feel welcome. The #1 item on the list: make people feel welcome by using their preferred name and pronoun.

Anyone loves making anyone feel welcome with insurance that can be billed at your discretion indefinitely.