Teacher fired for using non preferred pronoun

[fskimospy]

Imagine any other job in this regard.

Manager: You need to refer to the customers in this way.

Employee: No, I refuse.

Manager: You're fired.

 

[ivwshane]

Funny, I was going to start one too "The unenlightened temple of Homer " - I can't work but you still need to pay me for 8-5 M-F, anything else is against my religion.

Well damn! That’s some new age shit right there! I might just have to convert!

 

[ivwshane]

I’ll start the church of Meat, we don’t attend staff meetings and are required to be 60 minutes late for work and late coming back from break.
We also are required to call anyone with the title Boss or Manager or Controller or Vice
President or director or a whole lot of other titles Asshole or asshat or assclown.
We can’t address them in any other manner.
Also we don’t use email for work. No electronic communications will be looked at.

Naw, I’ll pass, we already have these fundy type people at my work and they are a pain in the ass.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Different discussion create a thread about it

Same discussion, you’re welcome to flat earth biology.

 

[Homerboy]

Well damn! That’s some new age shit right there! I might just have to convert!

Welcome my brother! (or do you prefer sister?)
First things' first.... For complete salvation and no-working-ness, we recommend a 75% tithing.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Naw, I’ll pass, we already have these fundy type people at my work and they are a pain in the ass.

No problem join up whenever you need to. You can even join up after your late lunch violation but you’ll be required to call the boss or hr person assclown for your first week.

 

[ivwshane]

Welcome my brother! (or do you prefer sister?)
First things' first.... For complete salvation and no-working-ness, we recommend a 75% tithing.

No problem join up whenever you need to. You can even join up after your late lunch violation but you’ll be required to call the boss or hr person assclown for your first week.

Doh! I think I’ll just be an atheist instead.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Great, then we agree that gender and sex are two distinct things.

Yes, I understand the distinction

Also, in plenty of cultures around the world for centuries two biologically identical people (from a sex perspective) are thought of as two different genders. It seems strange to pretend centuries (millennia?) of human history don't exist in this regard.

So culture is the basis of language gender conjugation.

You're saying it's unprecedented or inappropriate for school administration to tell teachers to refer to students how they wish to be referred to?

There is no legal precedence for adjusting language to reasonably accomodate identity expression.

Right, so by the teacher's argument they should be called 'it' or 'they' as neither 'he' nor 'she' is biologically correct. Do you think it would be appropriate to call the child 'it'? If not, what is the difference?

I don’t see a distinction between “it” and “they” as both avoid assigning the specificity of gender.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I mean the answer there is as easy as the answer here - let the kid work it out with the school. Whatever decision the school makes the teacher follows because the administrators run the school, not the teachers.

What if the kid wants to sit in the boy’s health class. It would serve no purpose and if anything cause more harm than good.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, I understand the distinction

So culture is the basis of language gender conjugation.

There is no legal precedence for adjusting language to reasonably accomodate identity expression.

I don’t see a distinction between “it” and “they” as both avoid assigning the specificity of gender.

Why on earth would there need to be legal precedent for every decision made by an administrator of a school. It was a reasonable request for literally the smallest accommodation I can think of. The employee refused and was terminated.

Good firing.

To be clear though, you think in the case of intersex students a teacher would be perfectly justified to refer to them in front of all other students as 'it'?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What if the kid wants to sit in the boy’s health class. It would serve no purpose and if anything cause more harm than good.

How about we let the school district & parents figure this out.
I suspect different situations will require different solutions.

 

[ivwshane]

What if the kid wants to sit in the boy’s health class. It would serve no purpose and if anything cause more harm than good.

That would be between the boys parents and the school administrators. Whatever their decision would be why would it matter? Are you now concerned about children’s education at the individual level?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why on earth would there need to be legal precedent for every decision made by an administrator of a school. It was a reasonable request for literally the smallest accommodation I can think of. The employee refused and was terminated.

Good firing.

To be clear though, you think in the case of intersex students a teacher would be perfectly justified to refer to them in front of all other students as 'it'?

Good shot?

 

[mikeymikec]

Logically (according to the teacher's logic at any rate) in the teacher's interests of not wanting to get caught in a lie and thus subjected to eternal hell and damnation, he needs to perform genitalia checks on every person he meets.

Did he perform a genitalia check on this boy before declaring him to be female, or did he just assume the boy's gender?

 

[UglyCasanova]

So your solution is for the teacher to take it out on the kid instead of taking it up with his EMPLOYER? This is surprising coming from someone who feels people should respect their opinions because it’s how they feel. If anyone supported this teacher being fired I would have thought if would be you.

The teacher isn’t taking it out on anybody

 

[ivwshane]

They teacher isn’t taking it out on anybody

Of course he did, that’s why he was fired.

 

[fskimospy]

What if the kid wants to sit in the boy’s health class. It would serve no purpose and if anything cause more harm than good.

I couldn't possibly see the purpose of trying to litigate every possible classroom scenario for a transgender student. Let the school work with the kid and figure things out.

It is the job of school staff to conduct themselves by the standards that the administration sets for them. This teacher elected not to do that and was terminated. I'm sure there are plenty of schools that do not have such rules and he's free to work at any of those if it makes him feel better.

 

[Starbuck1975]

That would be between the boys parents and the school administrators. Whatever their decision would be why would it matter? Are you now concerned about children’s education at the individual level?

No, but I could see a scenario where the parents expect the curriculum to accomodate both gender expression and biological reality.

There are hard realities around biological sex, and societal structures built around them, that don’t change just because someone prefers a different pronoun.

 

[ivwshane]

No, but I could see a scenario where the parents expect the curriculum to accomodate both gender expression and biological reality.

There are hard realities around biological sex, and societal structures built around them, that don’t change just because someone prefers a different pronoun.

I could see such a scenario too but I also see the school working it out with the parents. Should we remove that process and put in place a rigid system where parents can’t ask schools to work with their child? Because that seems like where you are headed with this.

 

[fskimospy]

No, but I could see a scenario where the parents expect the curriculum to accomodate both gender expression and biological reality.

There are hard realities around biological sex, and societal structures built around them, that don’t change just because someone prefers a different pronoun.

Sounds like the people running the school who know the students, the parents, and the teachers would be in the best position to navigate the tensions between the two.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Sounds like the people running the school who know the students, the parents, and the teachers would be in the best position to navigate the tensions between the two.

Honestly I think teachers in general have enough shit to worry about these days - and people just keep wanting to shovel more shit on them. Nowadays they have to have one-on-one meetings with everyone and do meet and greets with parents, after hours support, and give summary reports to parents, etc... All on shit pay and dealing with asshole parents blaming them for their kid being stupid.

If you child needs special attention, then you need to be in a special attention classroom.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Sounds like the people running the school who know the students, the parents, and the teachers would be in the best position to navigate the tensions between the two.

I would counter that they’re the least equipped to handle the situation given that they’re firing a teacher because he made a gendered pronoun error, which is the equivalence of accidentally calling someone by the wrong name.

 

[interchange]

Perhaps I'll propose an alternative. I don't think the objection that he has to transgender recognition should be suppressed despite my support for the employer requiring him to use the preferred pronouns. In fact, doing so is a matter of respect for his humanity. But that would mean there is also a need to respect the teacher's difference. So I would suggest as an alternative, he should address the school in whatever appropriate platform to have his difference heard and considered. And I would support him being part of some forum for students to respectfully discuss their differences. Clearly there are students who possess the same tension as the teacher. It would be powerful to show them how to express these differences productively instead of engaging in an authority-subordination dynamic. If the school denied him the opportunity to take such actions, I wouldn't support them, although I also don't think it would be illegal.

 

[Viper1j]

A teacher says he was fired for refusing to use male pronouns for a transgender student | CNN

A Virginia teacher has filed a lawsuit saying he was wrongfully fired for refusing to use male pronouns for a transgender student.

www.cnn.com

I see this bound for failure, find it hard to accept someone’s religion could be used to keep them from following what multiple superiors asked them to comply with. Pretty sure this has been ironed out in court many times.
If this isn’t something the teacher is willing to do then leave, don’t troll.

He should have said "don't let the bitch in the wall", as the word is generally perceived to be multi gender.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I would counter that they’re the least equipped to handle the situation given that they’re firing a teacher because he made a gendered pronoun error, which is the equivalence of accidentally calling someone by the wrong name.

Per the stories that have been presented it wasn’t the teacher making an error it was due to the teacher being coached, asked, ordered or whatever you want to call it by his superiors and he refused to comply.