AgaBoogaBoo
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2003
- 26,108
- 5
- 81
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Hehe, my bad, it's a bit late(3:20AM over here)
BAN
quit neffing, you know I'm going to beat you to 25k
quit neffing, you know I'm going to beat you to 25k
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,204
- 45
- 91
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Hehe, my bad, it's a bit late
BAN
quit neffing, you know I'm going to beat you to 25k
go ahead and do it, I dare you
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
- 7
- 81
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Hehe, my bad, it's a bit late
BAN
quit neffing, you know I'm going to beat you to 25k
He'll be banned the day before hits 24,998.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,204
- 45
- 91
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
If I wanted to spend that much, I'd just get a new pre/pro
I just want a future solution that's relatively cheap and hopefully I can use my existing pre/pro.
I figure worst case scenario, I can just get a midrange receiver and plug HDMI from an HD player and then use it's pre-outs to run into my multichannel analog input on my pro/pro.
Don't feel obligated at all to look into this anymore
Other than the sound it produces, the beauty of the Integra 10.5 is it's resistance to obsolesence. When a connection is too old a hundred dollars or so is all you need to bring it up to speed. It's kind of like upgrading your graphics card, instead of replaceing the whole PC just to get a DVI port you add to (or replace) the one card on the 10.5 for a hundred bucks or so. But I am pretty sure you already knew that.
It's certainly a very nice feature to have, but I'm way too poor to spend $3800-$5000 on something other than a mind blowing level of upgrade. We're talking going from my 720p LCD projector to a 1080p DLP projector or something.
I don't think I would get close to a justifyable utility gain from that Integra for me to even consider it a good buy
There's always it's cheaper cousin. The TX-NR1000. But even that should be hard for most collage students to justify.
I'm sure things are going to change a lot by the time I'm actually thinking about buying something
I have several things to buy before that :evil:
Just remember, with both of those A/V receivers (HDMI 1.1 capable), the HiDef player is still doing the decompressing, decoding or unpacking. The audio can be passed to the receiver via HDMI as multi-channel PCM.
You'll have to wait until around 2nd Quarter of '07 before most A/V receivers (HDMI 1.3 capable) are capable of taking a raw Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master stream from a HiDef player via HDMI and converting it to audio.
So, for your setup, either buy a 1st gen player with the analog outs or buy a premium version of a 2nd gen player; the 2nd gen players will still have the analog outputs.
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
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afaik, yes. But they totally killed the brand. Killed it.
*hugs my 8008s"
But I guess if it isn't on the site, then they stopped.
as far as I know. It's a qualifier.
Allows me to make a statement without it stating it as fact. Similar to "I believe", "I think", "possibly", etc.
Allows me to make a statement without it stating it as fact. Similar to "I believe", "I think", "possibly", etc.
Got to love setting up AV! This is much more lively then the AV forums, everyone there is watching movies or listening to music, you hit the computer forums and you get better responses!
Since I am late (sorry, just got my new PC put together and running in the last 2 nights!), thought I would spill some of what I know:
I have spent the last 7 years building my Home Theater, last pieces are getting picked up next week! I spent a lot of time working with the connection schemes, components and balancing it for use with Music as well, and my long hours paid off!
- Analog vs Digital connection - Digital is a better connection in most cases (back down you LP playing audiophiles, I am not done!). When you transmit in the digital realm, you have less problems with attenuation of the signal (usually not an issue when using 3ft cables) and less noise problems (ever have a 60hz hum, can figure out where is was from and find it was coupling in to the analog RCA, yea neither have I but I have heard it happen). However, to get this superior interconnect scheme, you sacrifice the purity of the audio which is analog. That Analog must be digitized, and that means no matter how you try, you will never recreate the analog signal perfectly. This is not really a big deal as most of the newer gear is digital media, so it has already been quantized.
- Analog sounds better...theoretically. Sound is analog, and if you can faithfully reproduce it with out line loss and introducing noise or distortion, you will hear it. however the cost to do this is quite high and reserved for people who have the money to do so (not me, don't care)
- HDMI - convert it all, I am up for that! I have so many cables with so many different connectors and specifications, it would be nice to have one connection scheme. Doesn't really matter that you may convert some analog to digital and then back to analog, the convenience along may be worth it, and with the high bit rates that are ran, and some good AV gear, you won't notice. Of course you will pay big bucks for that gear. Also AV switching or splitting a digital signal is much better than switching or splitting analog signals. no switching noise introduced, no attenuation of the data (everything attenuates, but digital is tolerant of it because the signal is not the data, merely a carrier of the data). I am sure most thing will switch to the pure digital realm in the near future out side of the high end analog stuff for the people that can afford it.
- BOSE, eh whatever. I have a set, they sound fine, if you set the up right. I wouldn't say they are great, but for most people who are looking for volume and not quality, they about equal to a basic set of speakers. If you are looking high end or theater, find something else, they just can't cut it. My HT is a complete set of Paradigm, LOVE THESE SPEAKERS!!! I would recommend to any one who is shopping around. Monitor Series is what I run, sound GREAT.
- Gear, matter of taste and availability. Just about all the amps I saw mentioned are great mid range gear, don't go cheap, get something good. I started with a basic Pioneer, worked well, but after about 7 years, I was able to upgrade and got a Marantz, Way better sound. Someone (sorry can't remember who) said spend at least as much on the speakers as the amp, if not more on the speakers. I would agree, but don't skimp on the amp. Bad power to good speakers = bad sound. The output power rating is not as important as the quality of the power, that is where the Marantz shined, 70W/ch vs Pioneer 100W/ch, and it sounds much better with less, because it was cleaner, better power (not bearing on Pioneer, remember this was a basic model, not an Elite, or even what they have now, 1994 was when I got it!)
- If you read this, I am almost done, it not, you have a short attention span
- Hope this helps, all who read it, glad to see some AV gurus and enthusiasts out there, I love my HT setup (especially since I finally am getting a sub, terrible I know, but the AMP upgrade was too good of a deal and there went my sub money!) and would recommend it for all who love a good movie, faithfully reproduced or for the music lover in us all that wants to run IPOD though a meat grinder and say "HA! told you it would sound the same as that crappy quality recording you had on there! Get a real music setup!!" (sorry, I have MP3's too, but the quality is lacking).
-Now that my novel is complete, I would like to thank all that have made this possible, Googer, MS Dawn, BiggestMuff, and YOyoYOhowsDAjello, keep reaching for the dream! (sorry, I haven't got much sleep trying to get this system running, but it finally works, no thanks to MS!)
~R~
Since I am late (sorry, just got my new PC put together and running in the last 2 nights!), thought I would spill some of what I know:
I have spent the last 7 years building my Home Theater, last pieces are getting picked up next week! I spent a lot of time working with the connection schemes, components and balancing it for use with Music as well, and my long hours paid off!
- Analog vs Digital connection - Digital is a better connection in most cases (back down you LP playing audiophiles, I am not done!). When you transmit in the digital realm, you have less problems with attenuation of the signal (usually not an issue when using 3ft cables) and less noise problems (ever have a 60hz hum, can figure out where is was from and find it was coupling in to the analog RCA, yea neither have I but I have heard it happen). However, to get this superior interconnect scheme, you sacrifice the purity of the audio which is analog. That Analog must be digitized, and that means no matter how you try, you will never recreate the analog signal perfectly. This is not really a big deal as most of the newer gear is digital media, so it has already been quantized.
- Analog sounds better...theoretically. Sound is analog, and if you can faithfully reproduce it with out line loss and introducing noise or distortion, you will hear it. however the cost to do this is quite high and reserved for people who have the money to do so (not me, don't care)
- HDMI - convert it all, I am up for that! I have so many cables with so many different connectors and specifications, it would be nice to have one connection scheme. Doesn't really matter that you may convert some analog to digital and then back to analog, the convenience along may be worth it, and with the high bit rates that are ran, and some good AV gear, you won't notice. Of course you will pay big bucks for that gear. Also AV switching or splitting a digital signal is much better than switching or splitting analog signals. no switching noise introduced, no attenuation of the data (everything attenuates, but digital is tolerant of it because the signal is not the data, merely a carrier of the data). I am sure most thing will switch to the pure digital realm in the near future out side of the high end analog stuff for the people that can afford it.
- BOSE, eh whatever. I have a set, they sound fine, if you set the up right. I wouldn't say they are great, but for most people who are looking for volume and not quality, they about equal to a basic set of speakers. If you are looking high end or theater, find something else, they just can't cut it. My HT is a complete set of Paradigm, LOVE THESE SPEAKERS!!! I would recommend to any one who is shopping around. Monitor Series is what I run, sound GREAT.
- Gear, matter of taste and availability. Just about all the amps I saw mentioned are great mid range gear, don't go cheap, get something good. I started with a basic Pioneer, worked well, but after about 7 years, I was able to upgrade and got a Marantz, Way better sound. Someone (sorry can't remember who) said spend at least as much on the speakers as the amp, if not more on the speakers. I would agree, but don't skimp on the amp. Bad power to good speakers = bad sound. The output power rating is not as important as the quality of the power, that is where the Marantz shined, 70W/ch vs Pioneer 100W/ch, and it sounds much better with less, because it was cleaner, better power (not bearing on Pioneer, remember this was a basic model, not an Elite, or even what they have now, 1994 was when I got it!)
- If you read this, I am almost done, it not, you have a short attention span
- Hope this helps, all who read it, glad to see some AV gurus and enthusiasts out there, I love my HT setup (especially since I finally am getting a sub, terrible I know, but the AMP upgrade was too good of a deal and there went my sub money!) and would recommend it for all who love a good movie, faithfully reproduced or for the music lover in us all that wants to run IPOD though a meat grinder and say "HA! told you it would sound the same as that crappy quality recording you had on there! Get a real music setup!!" (sorry, I have MP3's too, but the quality is lacking).
-Now that my novel is complete, I would like to thank all that have made this possible, Googer, MS Dawn, BiggestMuff, and YOyoYOhowsDAjello, keep reaching for the dream! (sorry, I haven't got much sleep trying to get this system running, but it finally works, no thanks to MS!)
~R~
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
- 7
- 81
I won't bother quoting all of that, it's too much. Analogue should never go away and YOyoYOhowsDAjello's HD-DVD issue is a prime example. Analogue input/output promises guaranteed compatability with a new or future technology. There is nothing wose than getting that new player and finding out that it cannot decode or even connect the proper wires to it. With analogue you don'y have to worry about "decoding anything" and that is the beauty of analogue. Also it must be noted that there are times (Depending on equipment) when analouge is more desireble than digital interconnects. The quality of the DAC inside of the reciever will determine this. While onkyo makes a great budget reciever, they put all their attention in to the amplification and in order to meet budget criteria they skimp on the DAC. Bypassing the recievers internal DAC by using analog allowed me to get better sound quality from the DVD player. Analouge should live on forver and shall always remain a viable option on all low or high end equipment, It's future proofing.
PS You can have your $2,000 BOSE, I will take my $600 Klipsch that have more detail and Volume than the best BOSE can offer. If you doubt me, then just take a Bose Lifestyle System and Klipsch Synergy/Quintet III and switch between them. Klipsch is just as loud (if not louder) as BOSE. The Klipsch setup will reveal sounds in the recording that no one knew existed when listening to BOSE. If you don't have access to this then head to your local BEST BUY where they may have a side by side demonstration setup; Most people who come in to Best Buy to purchase BOSE end up going to the check out line with KLIPSCH.
PS You can have your $2,000 BOSE, I will take my $600 Klipsch that have more detail and Volume than the best BOSE can offer. If you doubt me, then just take a Bose Lifestyle System and Klipsch Synergy/Quintet III and switch between them. Klipsch is just as loud (if not louder) as BOSE. The Klipsch setup will reveal sounds in the recording that no one knew existed when listening to BOSE. If you don't have access to this then head to your local BEST BUY where they may have a side by side demonstration setup; Most people who come in to Best Buy to purchase BOSE end up going to the check out line with KLIPSCH.
Yeah, it's called an RCA connection.
Ah the fun, of typing, hard for people to understand what you are saying, words are to easy to misinterpret. An attempt to clarify:
- I don't think Bose are great, I think they are acceptable, not terrible, not great, but acceptable. My first set were Bose 201 they cost $200. They are 14years old and still work fine, served their need, right now they are an improvement over the speakers in my TV. I run Paradigm where I care about the quality and sound, they are great speakers and far superior to anything in Bose's lineup. Klipsch is fine as well, as are many other brands, but all are better than the Bose experience. Don't want any misunderstanding on that.
-Analog will never go away for the exact reasons you stated, but I would rather have all digital, and most digital media plays (I say most) have a standard SPDIF digital optical or coax connector. This is about as standard as the RCA analog, and avoids the mess with the other side of analog: the difficulty of accurately transmitting analog signals without changing them. New technology such as Blu-Ray and HD-DVD bring new connections because there is not enough bandwidth in the SPDIF connector to transmit the higher bitrate audio that they provide. Analog RCA connections are not even close to being able to do this either unless you are willing to make 8+ connections between you player and receiver, not a real practical connection method, hence the change to a digital format, a great improvement.
- Yes, it does make sense if you have a pour DAC in the Receiver to use analog and convert it in the Player. but again, you start adding more than 2 channels and you start to invest in copper stock because of the cabling required. Eventually it will just be cheaper to get a better Amp/Pre Amp than to buy a receiver with poor DAC and all the cables. I know I got some where between $500 and $1000 invested in cables (I have that many cables, not buying $200 sets of cables) which I would rather have put towards Improvements elsewhere in the system.
- Unfortunately, while I would love to see a universal connection system for everything (HDMI, all digital transmission, and high quality DAC in a Pre-Amp), We will always have way to many different connections systems, hence why there is 50+ connection points on the back of my Receiver. It is good to have many different ways to connect, but trying to make them all work together can be a pain (Video mainly, just tried to plug a S-Video source into my Receiver and output it to Component, didn't work). Simplification is great, but it takes a while to filter to everything and then there is that legacy stuff...
Glad that you are all for the Analog, I will try and go all digital, and we will probably not be able to tell a difference in sound quality when it is all said and done. The winner would ultimately be determined by who has the better set of Bose (wounder if they would bounce when dropped off an overpass?)!
- Nov 11, 2004
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- I would recomend BOSE a bit more often if they were cheaper. With BOSE you do not get very good value. For half the price you can get better sounding speakers from another company like Paradigm or Klipsch.
- Some companies are already starting to put a few sets of 6-10 (per device/selection) RCA inputs.
- If a common digital connection were to be created, it would most likely be either IEEE1394 a/b or Gigabit Ethernet. A standardized connection will probably rely on an existing protocol. Most likely 1394 for it's daisy chain, ability to work with time sensitive data, work with TCP/IP network, proven ability to handle HDTV, it's Isosyncronous transfer ability, and 1394's naitive peer to peer transfer protocol. Plus 1394 is fairly robust, easy to use, and has a sturdy physical connector.
- I am not 100% in favor of analogue or digital. I will most definitly be using SPDIF when I get a Playstation 3 or if I decide to connect my PC's audio, I will use a Coax cable. When It comes to analogue I will probably use that for SACD (high frequency decoding) or DVD-Audio.
By the way Denon and Marantz are owned by the same company. Just like Onkyo and Integra, Their Products are 99% identical, only a differant DAC and a few brand specific unique features separate the TWO. Other than that, the internals are of similar design.
1. I would agree with 1, not bad if they were better price, the direct reflecting is a good idea, but most often it is not setup properly, and poorly implemented.
2. They do offer this espeicially with DVD Audio and SACD, still a lot of cables.
3. Work is actually in progress to use 1394 as a basis for AV home network connecting all devices and components, can't remember the group doing this but should start seeing the standards sometime next year. 1394 is based on SCSI protocol so it is a good robust basis for this and will easily integrate to PC and many camcorders and cameras.
4. I think most people are still mixed, I still have cassettes (Sad I know) and that is the only way I can interface that to my other equipment. I don't see analog leaving, but I think it will be less used as 1394 comes on board.
Actually I was aware the Denon and Marantz are the same holding company, however the parts are still unique more so than I would expect. Strange I know, but it does not appear they are sharing design info too much yet. I actually have 2 Marantz Receivers and a Denon DVD player. Marantz has better sound quality, but the Denon has less reliability problems. I think my next step will be to go with Anthem.
RCA is a connector type. Did you mean coaxial? If so, what coaxial format handles both audio and video?
RCA is a tradename for a coaxial connector found on cheap stuff.
Just as Motorola plugs are used on car FM tuners.
I like LP's and reel to reel recorders. Listen to MS Dawn, she's a pro and when audiophiles have had enough of the cheap stuff they start buying really expensive stuff that uses connections the pros use.
Just as Motorola plugs are used on car FM tuners.
I like LP's and reel to reel recorders. Listen to MS Dawn, she's a pro and when audiophiles have had enough of the cheap stuff they start buying really expensive stuff that uses connections the pros use.
- Nov 11, 2004
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1)That can be said about any speaker or hometheater system.
2)Hooking up 6-10 RCA cables per source is only a lot of trouble if you are constantly having to relocate your system (i.e. D.J.). For the rest of us we will likely do this once (may be twice) then forget about it. The majority of us set up our music machines and leave them as they are for several years. The cables can then be bound toghter by a dozen or so differant methods. So this really is not much of a big issue except for those whom cannot find the power button on the front of their TV.
3)1394 rocks and It's a shame that USB is more common place.
4)Cassettes are great and LP's are even older, so there is no reason to be ashamed of this.
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